Fatima and private revelations in general

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Relative to the Virgin tilma, a truly scientific examination involving sampling of the material has not been permitted.

Despite claims to the contrary, carbon-14 dating conducted in 1988 has proved the shroud cloth was created during the 13th or 14th centuries AD/CE.
 
I don’t put a whole lot of trust in private revelations either.

They usually contain things that don’t sit well with me too. Like wearing a scapula to guarantee salvation! And the miracles of Fatima and Lourdes don’t resemble the miracles of the Lord and His Apostles.

Matthew 11
And Jesus answered them, “Go and tell John what you hear and see: the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. And blessed is he who takes no offense at me.”

Mark 16
And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.

Please correct me, if I’m wrong, but do the miracles related to Marion apparitions look like these???

Btw, I am a big fan of Gloria Polo’s story! It does resonate with me. The miracle of recovery, her 180 conversion, her joy in telling her story every day, the conviction she has, and the account of death, judgment, Purgatory, and prayers.

So I’m not “anti-private revalation” but I don’t feel compelled to accept them even because a Pope has some sort of “devotion” to them.
 
Despite claims to the contrary, carbon-14 dating conducted in 1988 has proved the shroud cloth was created during the 13th or 14th centuries
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Scientists have since claimed that contamination over the ages from patches, water damage and fire, was not taken sufficiently into account in 1999, two Israeli scientists said plant pollen found on the Shroud supported the view that it comes from the Holy Land.
The weaving also indicates it would be from the period Jesus lived. I’d also add that the image is impossible to recreate, especially with the technology during that time. The cause of the image would be something like UV light (or supernatural light)
 
I was in the Holy Land last November. While in the Holy Sepulcher Church where Calvary and the Tomb are located, my camera went wacky. It’s a small digital camera that I hung from my wrist. I had left it on so I could be ready to take a quick photo. I have lovely photos of the floor and unknown people. 😀

Apparently during the time we were there, work was being done in the Tomb where Jesus laid. One of the priests on the tour, tweeted an article about the work which told how workmen had left their electric tools on the Tomb and when they came back to use the tools, the charge had been drained.
When Jesus rose from the Tomb, an electro magnetic field occurred and that’s what caused the image on the Shroud. It’s not my interpretation but some forensic experts. One who’s a member of my parish was supposed to speak about it last April but he had to cancel due to health reasons. I happen to meet him coming out of church one Sunday and he confirmed the above info to me. I’m hoping to hear him speak about it soon. And it’s your choice to believe it or not.
 
That’s one of the reasons it’s called the Miracle of the Sun. No one sustained eye damage though they looked directly at the sun.
 
Fatima is a great miracle for our times. 1917 was a long time ago, 100 years, but how close we are to its events as Lucia the seer who could see, hear and speak to Our Blessed Mother has been living in our world until her recent death in 2005. The two other seers now saints have been dead since 1920, a lifetime ago. Lucia will become a saint no doubt; she is well on her way. She lived a long life in service to God.
The events of the miracle of October 13th were witnessed by the faithful as well as the skeptical in a crowd of 70,000. This miracle and apparition is deemed worthy of belief by our catholic church. I will pray to these great saints daily for the rest of my life. Sorry you don’t believe the great signs that have been presented to us.
 
In Judaism, there is a branch of belief in mysticism. I can accept that stories like Fatima would go into a book of purported visions or such, but the attent’ion to Fatima on EWTN tv and radio is just overwhelming. There is such embellishment. EWTN has a program about “the message given to the THREE children at Fatima.” Well, the SAME EWTN program says that the boy, Francesco, NEVER heard anything ! It is said that he SAW “the lady” but heard nothing. And, beside Lucia, the third child was very young, three years younger than Francesco. I don’t believe there is anything recorded about what this child said about “the apparitions.”
So, let’s catch our collective breaths, it was at most TWO children who got the message, at best. Am I just whining? Well, I am “fact checking.”

Now on wiki, there are statements from skeptics who describe the “miracle of the sun” as a natural phenomenon. Now, I’m somewhat OK with “a sign” – a natural sign, occurring at an unusual time.

So, the appearance of Mary was said to be akin to the appearance of Christ – dazzling – at the Transfiguration. And,the sign in the sky a flashback to the rainbow that appeared to Noah. So, this whole event seems made up of pieces of things from the past.

What seems most remarkable was that the tide of anti-Catholicism in Portugal was turned back – not the least by the tourist trade that sprung up to the “shrine” that our Lady was said to have commanded. Who could argue with making money over an apparition or even a hoax – money is money.
 
worthy of belief? but not necessary. It is significant that the Church doesn’t say that we have to believe in it.
 
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Sir2v4 said:
In Judaism, there is a branch of belief in mysticism. I can accept that stories like Fatima would go into a book of purported visions or such, but the attent’ion to Fatima on EWTN tv and radio is just overwhelming. There is such embellishment. EWTN has a program about “the message given to the THREE children at Fatima.” Well, the SAME EWTN program says that the boy, Francesco, NEVER heard anything ! It is said that he SAW “the lady” but heard nothing. And, beside Lucia, the third child was very young, three years younger than Francesco. I don’t believe there is anything recorded about what this child said about “the apparitions.”
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Lucia was the eldest of the three children. She was either ten or twelve during the apparitions in 1917
 
To those who believe, no explanation is necessary,
To those who don’t believe, no explanation is possible !
 
You are part right and part wrong. You are correct in saying it is not necessary, but you are wrong in saying it is not significant that the Church does not say that we have to believe in it. The Church has stated that it is worthy of belief and this is significant. You are also wrong about Francisco in your next post. He could not hear directly the message, but heard from the other two later. And Jacinta did have many things to say about the apparitions. Lucia has written four accounts about Jacinta, Francisco and the apparitions that are published. You should read them. Happy 100th Anniversary of the Miracle of the Sun!
 
your position is blurring the church’s own distinction between the deposit of faith e,g, catechism vs visions.

for me one Eucharist on one day is better than 100 Fatimas for 100 years.
 
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It’s true that we are not obliged to believe private revelations. But Fatima has been investigated and approved as worthy of belief. Msgr. Charles Pope, in a recent article, takes Fatima quite seriously.

“Listen to Our Lady’s warnings. Heed her solution. Pray the Rosary daily for the conversion of souls. The times are urgent and many well-attested prophecies suggest that time is short—very short. The year 2017, the 100th anniversary of Fatima, may be a year that brings blessings or curses. Through Mary, the Lord sets before us life and death, blessings and curses.
Now choose life, so that you and your children may live! (see Deuteronomy 30:19)”

www.ncregister.com

The Times Are Urgent and We Must Heed the Warnings of Our Lady

Pray the Rosary daily for the conversion of sinners. Beg the Lord for poor sinners to repent.
www.ncregister.com www.ncregister.com
 
Yes yes, about the rosary and Mary, spot on I think. Mary pondered the mysteries of the rosary. Since it’s from her heart the things we ponder while praying the rosary originate,
the rosary is in Our Blessed Mother and She in the Rosary.
 
Sir2v4 said:
your position is blurring the church’s own distinction between the deposit of faith e,g, catechism vs visions.

for me one Eucharist on one day is better than 100 Fatimas for 100 years.
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That’s good for you who strongly believe. There are many that do not have an inkling of belief never mind great faith. Fatima is a great miracle that help many to have faith. My position blurs nothing. Because the Eucharist is miraculous and awesome takes nothing away from the importance of Our Lady’s visitation to the modern world.
 
Private revelation if anything reminds us of something the non-religious world wants us to ignore. That is, our Catholic faith, whether in practice and/or belief is supernatural. It should give we people of faith pleasure and comfort to watch science and reason be unable to explain itself since normally it’s we who believe, who have to do the explaining to science to justify our faith.

I certainly have my doubts about a few other private revelation, but Fatima is special. Our Lady of Guadeloupe is also special as well, not just because of the miraculous aspect of the event, but because of how many souls turned to the Catholic faith afterwards.

Besides the sheer numbers of people who witnessed Fatima, thousands of which had no affiliation with faith or belief, the revelation Russia spreading its errors and Russia’s ultimate conversion is what really astounds me. You have to have lived through the heart of the cold war and then see what has happened today to really be amazed at how foretelling Fatimas message was.

Very few private revelation get the Churchs blessing. It can take decades before approval. The thorough and comprehensive process by both religious and non-religious experts who investigate these events should give you confidence that at least everything was done so as not to mislead or harm your faith. And for others, the miracles are the gifts from heaven that have kept the faith.
 
Private revelations are like music:
  • True, you don’t need either one to get to Heaven;
  • True, some religious music, and some private revelations, are questionable;
  • True, both are of less importance than the Mass;
  • True, it is a problem if you rely on the hymns, or on private revelation, as the main source of your theology;
But:
  • Sometimes a particular hymn, at a certain time, touches the heart of some people, and encourages them to live out the truths in public revelation. Sometimes a certain private revelation touches the heart of some people, at this point in their lives, and does the same thing.
  • If you don’t like church music, ok. But don’t criticize others who do. Same with private revelations.
  • Stay away from unapproved private revelations, or unapproved interpretations of approved private revelations. Never use Fatima to evaluate the messages of the current pope and bishop; always use the messages of the current pope and bishop to evaluate the message of Fatima in 2017.
 
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