Fatima Consecration

[LilyM]

**Headlines in the Last Week!

Friction intensifies between U.S. and Russia
May 29, 2007 - Russia test-launches new missile
May 30, 2007 - Bush, Putin to meet as rift between nations widens
May 31, 2007 - Putin accuses U.S. of starting new arms race

Why Doesn’t The Pope Call President Bush & Putin, And tell them to relax,
The Consecration of Russia has been done!

Russia is no threat!
Russia is a Strong Catholic & Peaceful Nation - they converted remember!

We are in that Great Period of Peace Our Lady Promised us!
The World has never been more Peaceful & Loving than it is today!
Wake Up People! (1+1=2)
No Peace + No Conversion = No Consecration

The Consecration has Not been done as Our Lady requested.
After a lecture at St. Peter’s Church in New York City on January 27, 1988,
the following request was made of Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI:
“Your Eminence, I would like you to ask the Holy Father, Pope John Paul II,
to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, immediately and in union
with all the bishops in the world.” He replied: “I know it has to be done!”…
This response is proof the Consecration has not been done.

Mother Angelica was right when she said on May 16th 2001,
“As for the Secret, well I happen to be one of those individuals
who thinks we didn’t get the whole thing. I told ya! I mean, you
have the right to your own opinion, don’t you, Father?
There, you know, that’s my opinion.
Because I think it’s scary…”

God Bless Mother Angelica!

If the Consecration of Russia had been done properly,
the world would be at Peace and Russia would be converted.
Russia is far from being the most Catholic Nation of the world!
And there is absolutely no peace at all in the world!
Do you want us to believe Our Lady broke her promise to us?

The conversion & peace would have came almost over night, so
that the world would know it came from Our Lady.
It’s been 23 years since the ‘suppossed consecration’ was done.

Either the people who are saying it has been done are lying
or Our Lady lied to us at Fatima! And Our Lady Doesn’t Lie!
So, Who’s Lying? & Why?

The smoke of Satan has blinded many in the Church to the Truth.
There are enemies within the Church trying to destroy it from within,
no they won’t prevail but, they could do a lot of damage.

I sure hope it’s not gonna take many nations to be annihilated or
American Cities to be Nuked before we Open Our Eyes to the Truth!

Is THIS the Peace Our Lady of Fatima promised we would have?
Russia, China, France, United Kingdom, India, Israel, and Pakistan
all have Nukes! Iran, Korea & many others are in the process.
Terrorism, Famine & Abortion continue to spead across the globe!
We are on the verge of Nations being Annihilated &
Russia is still spreading it’s Errors through out the world.
Mexico legalizing Abortion is another error spread.

How can you truly believe that the
Consecration of Russia has been done, properly?
All the Bishops of the world in union with the Pope
on the same day must specifically mention ‘Russia’, NOT ‘The World’.

Do not be deceived, for even the elect will be deceived.
What harm would cause to do the Consecration
again just to make sure it’s been done properly?
It would end all the controversy.
Better safe than sorry, if you ask me!

I Love EWTN & I will Pray them!
Remember, EWTN is Not God!
They could be Wrong!
Don’t let Pride get in the way of admitting it.

EWTN is wrong about Fatima & about Fr. Gruner.
Please Read & do more research.
Read Father’s books & magazines
before you persecute him.
One day his reward in Heaven will be great.

What will the punishment be for all of us when various
nations are Annihilated because we did not listen to
The Mother Of God!

Mary Pray For Us!

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God,
have mercy on me, a sinner.



Peace & Love ~ Bob**

Who said anything had to happen overnight? Or that EVERYONE would know anything was from Our Lady? There were people who saw the blessed Miracle of the Sun itself and denied it was a miracle. You’re not going to have everyone believe that any change in Russia is miraculous.

I’m not disrespecting Father Gruner at all. For all I know he may be right. But it basically comes down to his views against those of Sister Lucia, and I see no reason not to believe the good sister her own self.

Our Lady of Fatima pray for us!

O my Jesus, forgive us our sins and save us from the fires of Hell. Lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who most need your mercy!

 

[Like]

Who said anything had to happen overnight? Or that EVERYONE would know anything was from Our Lady? There were people who saw the blessed Miracle of the Sun itself and denied it was a miracle. You’re not going to have everyone believe that any change in Russia is miraculous.

I’m not disrespecting Father Gruner at all. For all I know he may be right. But it basically comes down to his views against those of Sister Lucia, and I see no reason not to believe the good sister her own self.

Our Lady of Fatima pray for us!

O my Jesus, forgive us our sins and save us from the fires of Hell. Lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who most need your mercy!

I agree! **Russia was converted!!!
**I don’t know why anyone would believe Fr.Gruner over Sr.Lucia & now **two POPES (JP ll & B16)! **There was a lot more to the message than of Russia being converted. We the people, a lot of the religious (priest, bishops,ect.) let Our Lady down. Our Lady warned the world if we ourselves did not pray & repent we would bring a chastisement upon ourselves. Sr.Lucia said Our Lady said the cup was nearly full & she was having trouble holding the Father’s arm from falling. Our Lady’s three requests: penance, prayer and devotion to her Immaculate Heart.
Penance means a conversion of one’s life, a turning away from sin, and a turning back to God. As Our Lady insisted at Fatima: “Men must amend their lives, and ask pardon for their sins. . . . They must no longer offend Our Lord, Who is already so much offended.” The Fatima message is a call for men to give up sinful practices which grieve God and draw down His chastisements on the world, and to make reparation for them. Commenting on Our Lady’s request for penance, Sr. Lucia wrote: “The part of the last apparition which has remained most deeply imprinted on my heart is the prayer of our heavenly Mother begging us not to offend any more Almighty God, Who is already so much offended.”

 

[puzzleannie]

Some of us know who Father Gruner is and that he believes that Russia - and not the world - should be consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in union with all the bishops of the world.

However, I realized the other day that the 1984 consecration was not done “in union with all the bishops of the world”. Our Lady did not specify that they be Catholic bishops, nor did she indicate whether they had to be in union with Rome. The phrase “all the bishops of the world” could include Eastern Orthodox Patriarchs and it could even include the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Any thoughts on this?

my thoughts are that the Virgin Mary did not appear to Fr. Gruner, and her message was not delivered to him. Her message was delivered to 3 children, who in due course communicated it to the Pope. Neither is Fr. Gruner the pope, so he has no authority to declare what consecration should be made on what occasion by whom using what wording. Fr. Gruner is a dissedent priest who has caused grave harm and scandal among the faithful by exploiting a legitimate apparition for his own ends. He has rightly been censured for so doing, and the fact that there are still gullible people who rate his authority higher than the pope’s and fall for his act, proves the extent of the damage he has done. I further think to promote dissident teaching, on this forum above all places, is also a scandal, and by the way, a violation of forum rules.

 

[Bob67]

** Since 1984 the moral and spiritual state of the world has obviously grown far worse:
In the past 14 years there have been 600 million abortions, and wars have broken out all over the world. Mercy-killing and homosexual acts have been “legalized”. In Russia itself a new law has just been passed which discriminates against the Catholic Church and in favor of Islam, Buddhism, Judaism and the Orthodox churches which forcibly occupied Catholic parishes under the Communists.
Thus it is clear Russia is not converted to the Catholic Faith as Our Lady of Fatima promised would happen if Her request was done!

There have been very few conversions to Catholicism in Russia over the past fourteen years.
In all of Russia today there are only 300,000 Catholics–much less than one percent of the Russian population. By comparison, after Our Lady appeared at Guadalupe, Mexico in the 16th Century, more than 7 million Mexicans converted from paganism to the Catholic Faith within nine years and Mexico became a Catholic country! **

**It has been 23 years since the 1984 Consecration of ‘the World’!

Is THIS the Peace Our Lady of Fatima promised we would have?
Russia, China, France, United Kingdom, India, Israel, and Pakistan
all have Nukes! Iran, Korea & many others are in the process.

Terrorism, Famine & Abortion continue to spead across the globe!
We are on the verge of Nations being Annihilated &
Russia is still spreading it’s Errors through out the world.
Mexico legalizing Abortion is another error spread.

No Peace + No Conversion = No Consecration **

 

[Bob67]

**Here are 7 Wonderful Fatima Prayers for each day of the week!

During the course of the apparitions at Fatima, the 3 children were taught 5 unique and powerful prayers, 2 by the Angel of Peace and 3 by the Mother of God.
Later, appearing to Sister Lucy at Rianjo, Spain, Our Lord Jesus Christ dictated 2 further prayers.

Monday - My God, I believe, I adore, I hope and I love You! I ask pardon of You for those who do not believe, do not adore, do not hope and do not love You!

Tuesday - O Jesus, it is for love of You, for the conversion of sinners, and in reparation for the sins committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

Wednesday - O my Jesus, forgive us, save us from the fire of hell. Lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who are most in need.

Thursday - O Most Holy Trinity, I adore You! My God, my God, I love You in the most Blessed Sacrament!

Friday - Sweet Heart of Mary, be the salvation of Russia, Spain, Portugal, Europe and the whole world.

Saturday - By your pure and Immaculate Conception, O Mary, obtain for me the conversion of Russia, Spain, Portugal, Europe and the entire world.

Sunday - Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, I offer You the most precious Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, present in all the tabernacles of the world, in reparation for the sacrileges, outrages and indifference by which He Himself is offended. And through the infinite merits of His most Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I beg of you the conversion of poor sinners."**

:byzsoc:

 

[tradition]

As part of a general consecration of the whole world - and I’d think the collapse of the Soviet Union less than a decade after this happened would be proof enough that it was acceptable

But there are some who give new meaning to the term ‘nitpicker with too much time on their hands’

The Kremlin official boasts new missile “Can Penetrate Any System”

And Russia HAS NOT YET BEEN PUBLICLY CONSECRATED
“WITH THE BISHOPS” TO THE IMMACULATE HEART OF MARY!
AND TRYING TO MAKE A JOKE WITH AN OLD FASHIONED DRESS DOES NOT CHANGE THE SUBJECT. Nice technique
using mockery to make one ashamed of his belief. Didn’t Jesus
suffer the same way? That crown of thorns on the head of a King. And every one stood around laughing and pointing…
If Russia was consecrated WHERE is this “Peace” the world is
supposed to be experiencing??? Wars, floods, unusual weather patterns throughout the world, heinous crimes, corrupted leaders, drugs evolving on all of society…paganism run rampet

 

[Bob67]

DITTO!

** Since 1984 the moral and spiritual state of the world has obviously grown far worse:
In the past 14 years there have been 600 million abortions, and wars have broken out all over the world. Mercy-killing and homosexual acts have been “legalized”. In Russia itself a new law has just been passed which discriminates against the Catholic Church and in favor of Islam, Buddhism, Judaism and the Orthodox churches which forcibly occupied Catholic parishes under the Communists.
Thus it is clear Russia is not converted to the Catholic Faith as Our Lady of Fatima promised would happen if Her request was done!

There have been very few conversions to Catholicism in Russia over the past fourteen years.
In all of Russia today there are only 300,000 Catholics–much less than one percent of the Russian population. By comparison, after Our Lady appeared at Guadalupe, Mexico in the 16th Century, more than 7 million Mexicans converted from paganism to the Catholic Faith within nine years and Mexico became a Catholic country! **

**It has been 23 years since the 1984 Consecration of ‘the World’!

Is THIS the Peace Our Lady of Fatima promised we would have?
Russia, China, France, United Kingdom, India, Israel, and Pakistan
all have Nukes! Iran, Korea & many others are in the process.

Terrorism, Famine & Abortion continue to spead across the globe!
We are on the verge of Nations being Annihilated &
Russia is still spreading it’s Errors through out the world.
Mexico legalizing Abortion is another error spread.

No Peace + No Conversion = No Consecration **

 

[Aragorn1]

I’d think the collapse of the Soviet Union less than a decade after this happened would be proof enough that it was acceptable

What has the collapse of the Soviet Union to do with anything? Sure, it was a significant event, but it by no means marked the fall of Communism. Also, nowhere did Our Lady mention the Soviet Union. She asked for the Consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart. Last time I checked, 23 years after the most recent Consecration of the World, Russia remains unconverted. In fact, despite the fall of the USSR, the situation in Russia is almost as bad as it was 20 years ago, and is showing no signs of recovering; on the contrary, it appears to be on the verge of reverting to its Cold War ways.

You should accept what Sister Lucia said …

And what exactly did Sr. Lucia say?

 

[LilyM]

And what exactly did Sr. Lucia say?

She wrote that the Consecration as done in 1984 WAS entirely sufficient. Here is a website which links to her own letters on the matter.

Trust Sr Lucia’s word, she wouldn’t offend Our Lady by lying if it was insufficient, she didn’t previous to 1984. She had nothing to gain by saying it WAS sufficient if it wasn’t.

 

[Shoshana]

Abortion did NOT originate in Russia! Whoever told you that? In different forms it’s been practiced for millennia!

Lily, you are right that abortion did not originate in Russia. BUT the abortion mills were originated in Russia where almost 50% of the pregnancies were aborted.

Working women in factories and day care centers were begun in Russia, causing the families to be seperated from each other.

A lot of New Age **** was originated in Russia.

And the beat goes on…

Just read Russia’s history and you will see what Our Lady was talking about when she said that the influence of Russia on the world would be horrendous! And SHE was right!

 

[Aragorn1]

She wrote that the Consecration as done in 1984 WAS entirely sufficient. Here is a website which links to her own letters on the matter.

Sr. Lucia said no such thing. The Fr. Fox “letters” are fraudulent. I suggest you read this all the way through to the end (with an open mind). I repeat, NOWHERE has Sister Lucia stated that the 1984 consecration fulfilled Our Lady’s requests.

 

[LilyM]

Sr. Lucia said no such thing. The Fr. Fox “letters” are fraudulent. I suggest you read this all the way through to the end (with an open mind). I repeat, NOWHERE has Sister Lucia stated that the 1984 consecration fulfilled Our Lady’s requests.

Not good enough.

Truly it’s up to God to sort out the rights between Fr Fox and Fr Gruner, Lord knows I can’t. But Fr Fox, if you notice, isn’t the only person Sr Lucia wrote to. Please make my day and tell me Sr Mary of Bethlehem is ALSO blinded by dislike of Fr Gruner and ALSO silly enough to attempt to falsify documents.

For one thing Sr Lucia was very open in saying the earlier attempts at Consecration were unsuccessful - because they were. Not like anyone was seriously scandalised by her so saying, she was the seer to whom the mission was entrusted after all.

In contrast she was silent, if you don’t believe the letters, about 1984. 20 years of silence is completely uncharacteristic, in view how much she DID write and comment during her adult life.

Given that the success of this important mission had been entrusted to her, it would have been unpardonably lax of her not to speak up and SAY that 1984 was unsuccessful if in fact it was.

She had 20 years or so after 1984 during which to say the same things about it that she said about the earlier efforts, if 1984 in fact wasn’t a proper consecration. And she would have done so. If you can produce a document - ANY document or statement - from her where SHE said 1984 was unsuccessful that’s a different ballgame.

Besides, what benefit is to be gained from hiding her unfavourable opinion about 1984? Do you really think JP2 and Benedict 16 think heaven can be fooled or mocked in such a way? Give them credit for more sense than that.

 

[Bob67]

**Here’s a Sister Lucy Interview by the Blue Army that Insists 1984 Consecration
Does Not Fulfill Our Lady of Fatima’s Request!
Published in the month of September 1985
from the magazine of the Spanish section of the Blue Army, Sol de Fatima.

During an interview, Sister Lucy, the seer of Fatima, gave some details about the Secret of Fatima
in particular on the subject of the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. **

** Question: At what moment of the Fatima mystery do we find ourselves?

   Sister Lucy: I think we are living in the time when Russia is spreading its errors throughout the world. 

   Question: By that, are we to understand that Russia will take possession of the whole world?

   Sister Lucy: Yes. 

   Question: John Paul II had invited all the bishops to join in the consecration of Russia, which he was going to make at Fatima on 13 May 1982 and which he was to renew at the end of the Holy Year in Rome on 25 March 1984, before the original statue of Our Lady of Fatima. Has he not therefore done what was requested at Tuy?

   Sister Lucy: There was no participation of all the bishops, and there was no mention of Russia. 

   Question: So the consecration was not done as requested by Our Lady?

   Sister Lucy: No. Many bishops attached no importance to this act.**

This article reflects the Doctrine of the Blue Army before its “updating” in the years 1985 - 1986. The Blue Army underwent some fundamental changes in direction in 1985 - 1986 due to its International leadership. These fundamental changes are further explained in the book — The Fatal Fox Consecration Hoax. Available from The Fatima Crusader. Call 1-800-263-8160.

 

[LilyM]

**Here’s a Sister Lucy Interview by the Blue Army that Insists 1984 Consecration
Does Not Fulfill Our Lady of Fatima’s Request!
Published in the month of September 1985
from the magazine of the Spanish section of the Blue Army, Sol de Fatima.

During an interview, Sister Lucy, the seer of Fatima, gave some details about the Secret of Fatima
in particular on the subject of the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. **

** Question: At what moment of the Fatima mystery do we find ourselves?

   Sister Lucy: I think we are living in the time when Russia is spreading its errors throughout the world. 

   Question: By that, are we to understand that Russia will take possession of the whole world?

   Sister Lucy: Yes. 

   Question: John Paul II had invited all the bishops to join in the consecration of Russia, which he was going to make at Fatima on 13 May 1982 and which he was to renew at the end of the Holy Year in Rome on 25 March 1984, before the original statue of Our Lady of Fatima. Has he not therefore done what was requested at Tuy?

   Sister Lucy: There was no participation of all the bishops, and there was no mention of Russia. 

   Question: So the consecration was not done as requested by Our Lady?

   Sister Lucy: No. Many bishops attached no importance to this act.**

This article reflects the Doctrine of the Blue Army before its “updating” in the years 1985 - 1986. The Blue Army underwent some fundamental changes in direction in 1985 - 1986 due to its International leadership. These fundamental changes are further explained in the book — The Fatal Fox Consecration Hoax. Available from The Fatima Crusader. Call 1-800-263-8160.

Russia’s had 23 years then - possession of the whole world is not a bit closer for them than it was in 84, if that is their aim

If anything it’s significantly further away after the breakup of the Soviet Union. Nor do the Russians seem to be trying very hard for world domination either.

This amateurish and laughable stuff if it’s meant to be evidence for their or Fr Gruner’s view of things. And just as likely to be fabricated at Fr Fox’s letter(s?)

And again, what about the OTHER receipient of a letter endorsing the 84 Consecration? Please give me the best laugh I’ve had all week and tell me that Sr Mary of Bethlehem is also somehow in on the anti-Fr Gruner conspiracy.

 

[Mag_Uidhir]

Any thoughts on this?

Yes, stay away from Fr Gruners website, better to go-to this one, the Fatima Family Apostolate, and here’s some Free Fatima Facts.

Type in the search bar of this site and you’ll get info on Fatima.

Plus get yourself a copy of “Calls from the message of Fatima” and hear it from the horses mouth.

**Sister Lucia **said it was done, so that can only mean one thing, it was done, Heaven accepted it was done.

So I gather it’s done, over, finished, finito… err did I say it was done.

Pope JP 2 was asked about the Consecration, his reply " How many times do you want me to do it " ?

 

[LilyM]

Pope JP 2 was asked about the Consecration, his reply " How many times do you want me to do it " ?

Absolutely - that quote speaks to me of JP2s undoubted deep love for Our Lady of Fatima, and you can be sure he would’ve done it dozens of times over if necessary.

And he knew Sr Lucia well, she would have told HIM the truth in spite of all the allegedly faked letters in the world.

 

[Aragorn1]

LilyM, please consider the following:

Sister Lucy herself stated in response to the question (by Father Umberto Maria Pasquale) whether Our Lady had ever mentioned consecrating the world as opposed to Russia: “No, Father Umberto! Never! At the Cova da Iria in 1917 Our Lady had promised: I shall come to ask for the Consecration of Russia … In 1929, at Tuy, as She had promised, Our Lady came back to tell me that the moment had come to ask the Holy Father for the Consecration of that country [Russia].” L’Osservatore Romano, Italian Daily Edition, May 12, 1982.]

It’s obvious that someone is lying. When two different testimonies purportedly from the same witness are completely contradictory, what is a court of law supposed to do? Appeal to the witness directly. What did Bertone/Sodano/Ratzinger (the party who had complete control over all access to the witness from 1960 until her death) do in 2001? Bertone conducted a closeted interview with Sr. Lucy, of which there is no audio or video recording, and no complete transcript; the only record of it is a brief summary, written by Bertone himself, which quotes a total of 463 words of Sr. Lucy out of a two hour interview! Think about it: Bertone controls access to the witness. He claims the witness confirms his statements. If he is telling the truth, it is clearly in his best interest to appeal to the witness so that everyone will know who is telling the truth. The interview was conducted with the stated purpose of questioning Sr. Lucy about certain doubts which still remained about Fatima. What could this possiby mean besides the Third Secret and the COR? In Bertone’s “record” of the interview, he picks and chooses quotes from the witness, and construes them with little or no context whatsoever. Often, an alleged answer is given in response to a question that is not even stated! And what on earth could Bertone and Sr. Lucy have been talking about for two hours, when only enough words for about five minutes are recorded? You would think that the interview would have been done in a more professional, honest, straightforward manner. Why the secrecy???

For a more comprehensive treatment of the alleged Bertone interview, you might want to read “Let Us Hear the Witness, For Heaven’s Sake!” by Christopher Ferrara, which may be found in Chapter 14 of The Devil’s Final Battle by Father Paul Kramer.

Russia’s had 23 years then - possession of the whole world is not a bit closer for them than it was in 84, if that is their aim

If anything it’s significantly further away after the breakup of the Soviet Union. Nor do the Russians seem to be trying very hard for world domination either.

As Lenin himself once said, sometimes it is necessary to take a step backward in order to take two steps forward. Don’t fool yourself by saying Communism has fallen. It hasn’t. Last time I checked, China is still persecuting Catholics vigorously. “Fatima pertains to Russia, not China”, I can hear the objection already. But the fact is that if the COR was not done, Russia would “spread her errors throughout the world.” One of those errors is Communism. Communism is still alive and well, fall of the USSR or no fall of the USSR. Ergo, the COR has not been done.

And what was meant by the “conversion of Russia”? Was the conversion to Russion Orthodoxy, a schismatic church, what Our Lady intended? Why is true Catholicism still being suppressed? There are only 10 native Russian priests in that country. The total number of Catholics is 500,000: less than half a percent of the total population. Abortion and pornography are still thriving industries in Russia, far much more so than in the USA. Homosexuality was legalized nine years after the 1984 consecration. Russia has recently tested new ICBMs, which they boast can penetrate any system. There are signs that Russia is preparing for another Cold War (for example, its threats of retaliation if the US builds missile defense bases in Poland, to defend against IRAN!!!). And this is a converted nation? This is the period of peace that was promised to the world?

And he [Pope John Paul II] knew Sr Lucia well, she would have told HIM the truth in spite of all the allegedly faked letters in the world.

Correct, she would have told him, IF she was permitted. But she wasn’t.

Actually, she did manage to write a letter to the Pope in 2001. Again, read The Devil’s Final Battle.

 

[Aragorn1]

Logically, there are only five possibilities regarding the Consecration of Russia (COR):

1: The Fatima apparitions were fake, therefore the COR was never requested, regardless of whether it was done or not.
2: The COR was done, but Our Lady broke her promise.
3. The COR was done, and we are now experiencing the “conversion of Russia” and the “period of peace”.
4. The COR was done, and the conversion of Russia and the peace of the world will come at some point in the future. We must be patient and wait for the conversion of Russia et al. It will happen in God’s time, not ours.
5. The COR was not done.

Possibility #1 is false. The Miracle of the Sun, and the fulfilled prophecies regarding the end of WW1, the aurora borealis of 1938, the election of Pius XI, WW2, the rise of Russia as a world power, and the spread of Russia’s errors (i.e. Communism) throughout the world, clearly demonstrate the authenticity of the Fatima apparitions. No serious Fatima scholar would dare to assert that the apparitions were not genuine.

Possibility #2 is out of the question.

Possibility #3 is manifestly false.

Possibility #4 is just a cheap excuse for the evident failure of the 1984 consecration to bring about world peace. Even if we were thousands of years removed from the consecration of the world, the same argument could theoretically be made. The assertion that “it hasn’t happened yet, but it will” can be continued indefinitely, but it tells us nothing about whether or not the COR was really done. Such an argument certainly fails to prove that the COR was done. Furthermore, the argument’s credibility is reduced with each passing year from the alleged COR. Twenty-three years removed, I think it is safe to say it was not done.

After Portugal was consecrated to the Immaculate Heart in 1931, it experienced an almost overnight transformation from a nation dominated by atheists and Freemasons to a predominantly Catholic nation. It was also astonishingly preserved from the Spanish Civil War, the horrors of WW2, and the era of the Soviet Union. The period of peace and the massive resurgence of the Catholic Faith in Portugal almost immediately following the 1931 consecration possibly provide a “preview” of what will happen to the world if Russia is consecrated.

But here we are, 23 years and counting since the 1984 consecration of the world. Besides the collapse of the Soviet Union, has anything significantly beneficial happened to the Russia or the world? Has the world seen a decrease in abortion, pornography, contraception, homosexuality, euthanasia, and other forms of immorality? Has there been a significant period of peace in the world? Any decrease of wars at all? What about the Catholic faith: are Catholics free to practice their faith in every nation around the world? Has there been a significant (if any) decrease in persecution? Can anyone seriously maintain that this world of ours is on the road to recovery? The answer to all of these questions, of course, is an emphatic no. And I find it completely nonsensical that Our Lady, who loves her children and certainly wants to help them the instant they grant her request, would wait 23 years and counting before delivering mankind from all the evils of the 20th century.

To quote Sherlock Holmes, “Once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”

Logically, then, the only possibility left is Possibility #5: Russia has not yet been consecrated. This conclusion is consistent with the irrefutable fact that, whatever “Sister Lucy’s” letters say to the contrary, no consecration that has yet been made, not even the one in 1984, has both mentioned Russia by name AND been made in union with all the bishops of the world on the same day.

This possibility is also consistent with the current state of Russia and of the rest of the world. It is consistent with reliable testimony from both Sister Lucy and witnesses who spoke with her, who claim that the true COR must fulfill the aforementioned requirements.

Why doesn’t the Holy Father just make the COR to the Immaculate Heart and just end this divisive controversy? Even if it had been done already (which I repeat, it hasn’t), why not do it again? Could it really hurt?

 

[Aragorn1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob67
"Here’s a Sister Lucy Interview by the Blue Army that Insists 1984 Consecration
Does Not Fulfill Our Lady of Fatima’s Request!
Published in the month of September 1985
from the magazine of the Spanish section of the Blue Army, Sol de Fatima.

During an interview, Sister Lucy, the seer of Fatima, gave some details about the Secret of Fatima
in particular on the subject of the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

Question: At what moment of the Fatima mystery do we find ourselves?

Sister Lucy: I think we are living in the time when Russia is spreading its errors throughout the world.

Question: By that, are we to understand that Russia will take possession of the whole world?

Sister Lucy: Yes.

Question: John Paul II had invited all the bishops to join in the consecration of Russia, which he was going to make at Fatima on 13 May 1982 and which he was to renew at the end of the Holy Year in Rome on 25 March 1984, before the original statue of Our Lady of Fatima. Has he not therefore done what was requested at Tuy?

Sister Lucy: There was no participation of all the bishops, and there was no mention of Russia.

Question: So the consecration was not done as requested by Our Lady?

Sister Lucy: No. Many bishops attached no importance to this act.

This article reflects the Doctrine of the Blue Army before its “updating” in the years 1985 - 1986. The Blue Army underwent some fundamental changes in direction in 1985 - 1986 due to its International leadership. These fundamental changes are further explained in the book — The Fatal Fox Consecration Hoax. Available from The Fatima Crusader. Call 1-800-263-8160."

…

[This is] just as likely to be fabricated at Fr Fox’s letter(s?)

Correct, it is just as likely to be fabricated as Fr. Fox’s letter. But the existence of two contradictory testimonies from allegedly the same witness alerts us to the inevitability of a conspiracy: the Principle of Non-contradiction states that a thing cannot be both true and false. Somebody must be lying. Who is it, and why? Whose case is more believable?

Besides, what benefit is to be gained from hiding her unfavourable opinion about 1984? Do you really think JP2 and Benedict 16 think heaven can be fooled or mocked in such a way?

Now you’re talking sensibly. The answer, once again, lies in The Devil’s Final Battle. It’s an amazing book, and it explains EVERYTHING.

 

[Aragorn1]

fatimaradio.com/media/lcwp/CA1-watch.htm

I must admit I’m not a big fan of Ferrara, but I can recognize a strong argument when I see one. He speaks the truth.