Fatima NOT DOGMA

[Seamus_L]

Our Lady of Fatima is recognized as quite a bit more than just a private revelation by the Church.

1.Jacinta and Francisco Marto have been declared blessed.
2.May 13 is recognized as the feast day of Our Lady of Fatima.
3.On the 13th of the month from May thru October, processions are held in honor of Our Lady Of Fatima at some churches.
4.We say the Fatima prayers in the rosary.
5.Many churches encourage first Saturday devotions.
6.Churches are named for Our Lady of Fatima.
7.Statues, stained glass windows, paintings and icons of Our Lady of Fatima can be found in many churches.

 

[JReducation]

Our Lady of Fatima is recognized as quite a bit more than just a private revelation by the Church.

1.Jacinta and Francisco Marto have been declared blessed.

Beatification is not based on the apparition of Our Lady, but the unquestionable proof of a heroic life of Christian virtue and one miracle attributed to their intercession.

2.May 13 is recognized as the feast day of Our Lady of Fatima.

It is a liturgical feast, not a dogma. It exists only in the Roman calendar, not the universal Catholic calendar or those of religious orders that follow their own liturgical calendar.

3.On the 13th of the month from May thru October, processions are held in honor of Our Lady Of Fatima at some churches.
4.We say the Fatima prayers in the rosary.
5.Many churches encourage first Saturday devotions.

First Saturday devotion did not begin with Fatima. It was mentioned at Fatima. First Saturday devotion is a Franciscan tradition that was enforced by St. Bonaventure on the Franciscan Friars when he was our Superior General and under his authority, the friars were ordered to introduce it to the faithful, just as the Carmelite Scapular was introduced to the faithful by the Brothers of Mt. Carmel, the rosary by the Order of Preachers, the Stations of the Cross and the Christmas Nativity Scene by the Franciscans, the Memorare by the Cistercians and the Miraculous Medal by the Daughters of Charity.

Private veneration is allowed in public, while retaining its private character, meaning that they are not morally binding on the faithful. Observe that these celebrations are observed only in the Roman Church, not by the other Catholic or Orthodox Churches, whereas dogma and binding moral laws are held in common by all the Churches.

6.Churches are named for Our Lady of Fatima.
7.Statues, stained glass windows, paintings and icons of Our Lady of Fatima can be found in many churches.

These are forms of public veneration of Our Lady under the title Our Lady of Fatima. However, observe that they are not binding on the faithful, except in those places whose patroness is Our Lady of Fatima, in which they are required to make mention of her in the Eucharistic prayer during the mass as we do for all other patron saints. For example, at every mass celebrated by a Franciscan Friar, St. Francis must be mentioned in the canon. Every year on December 8, in the USA, we must celebrate the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception as a Holy Day of Obligation, because it is our patronal feast, but it is not required of those episcopal conferences where Mary is not the patron under this title. If you travel to Italy, October 4th is celebrated as a solemnity and a holy day of obligation. This does not bind Catholics anywhere else in the Church, unless they live in Italy or belong to the Franciscan Order. July 16the is celebrated as a solemnity and holy day of obligation for any country or religious community that venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary under the title of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel.

Observe that the Carmelites bypass the Solemnity of St. Francis, Oct 4 and the Franciscans bypass the Solemnity of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel. For the Carmelites July 16 is a solemnity, while for the Franciscans, July 16 is the Solemnity of the Birthday of St. Clare. St. Clare’s feast trumps that of Our Lady on that day, because it’s not a universal holy day.

The same applies to the feast of Our Lady of Fatima. It is not a universal holy day of the Catholic Church and it only appears in the Roman Ordo, not the other Catholic ordos or the Orthodox ordos.

Feast days are for the glory of God and the sanctification of the people, but they can and do vary from culture to culture, including dioceses, religious orders, nations and episcopal conferences. There are only a handful of holy days that are binding on the universal Church, Catholic and Orthodox, because those holy days celebrate essentials in revelation: Epiphany, St. Joseph the Foster Father of Jesus, Annunciation, Holy Thursday, Good Friday, Easter Sunday, Assumption or Dormition, Exaltation of the Holy Cross, All Souls Day, Feast of All Saints, Immaculate Conception and Christmas. And of these, not all of them are Holy Days of Obligation around the world. All other feasts have different degrees of observance. Some are optional memorials, memorials, feasts, solemnities and holy days of obligation depending on the local law. Feast of Our Lady of Fatima is a feast, not a solemnity and not a holy day of obligation, except in Portugal and those other cultures and religious communities under her protection as patroness. The feast is not included in the Eastern Catholic liturgical calendar, except where it is part of their culture, such as the Eastern Catholic Churches in Portugal.

The Church does not treat Our Lady of Fatima with more or less reverence and devotion that she does any of the other titles for Mary. Actually, the highest-ranking celebration honoring Mary, in the Roman Church, is January 1, Mother of God. This celebration, though it is found in the Roman calendar takes its roots from the Eastern Church’s teaching on the Theotokos. I do not know if they have a special day to venerate Mary under the title of Theotokos. Brother David, would know this, because he is an Oriental Catholic, maybe bi-ritual. I am Roman.

We must be very careful not to push a Marian devotion to the point that it begins to look like superstition or idolatry. Our Lord wants us to love and venerate his mother and all the saints. When devotion becomes a point of division among the faithful, then one must step back and examine if the division is caused by a genuine faith or an excess of fervor. An excess of fervor can lead to sin as easily as a lack of fervor.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[pnewton]

Our Lady of Fatima is recognized as quite a bit more than just a private revelation by the Church.

No, at least you will not find the Catholic Church making a special exception for Our Lady of Fatima being the first public revelation in 2000 years.

Those are the two classes of revelation: public and private. There is not private plus class.

 

[JReducation]

No, at least you will not find the Catholic Church making a special exception for Our Lady of Fatima being the first public revelation in 2000 years.

Those are the two classes of revelation: public and private. There is not private plus class.

I’ll piggy-back on what you’re saying here. The Church has authoritatively declared that the last public revelation took place before the death of the last apostle. Even the teachings of the Fathers of the Church are not public revelation. They are private revelations. The Magisterium has the power and authority to select from them what it wants to use and to leave the rest.

The Church has always made it very clear that all revelations must support and at the same time, be subordinate to, the revealed truths. Truth is found first in the faith of the early Church, also called Tradition. Then in the Magisterium. Finally, in the canon of scripture. The three, together, not independently, contain the fulness of revelation.

Since the fulness of revelation is alreayd known, there is nothing else to add. Visions, miracles, and prophecies are private.

I believe that people often do not undersand how the Church uses the term “private”. Private does not mean that it’s not seen or known by anyone else. Private means that such knowledge has not been handed to the Church or included in the deposit of faith, which is our common patrimony. Miracles do exist. We do not deny the power and presence of God. But they exist to support the faith of the Church, not to inject the faith with new truths or additional truths.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[beehumble]

First Saturday devotion did not begin with Fatima. It was mentioned at Fatima. First Saturday devotion is a Franciscan tradition that was enforced by St. Bonaventure on the Franciscan Friars when he was our Superior General and under his authority, the friars were ordered to introduce it to the faithful, just as the Carmelite Scapular was introduced to the faithful by the Brothers of Mt. Carmel, the rosary by the Order of Preachers, the Stations of the Cross and the Christmas Nativity Scene by the Franciscans, the Memorare by the Cistercians and the Miraculous Medal by the Daughters of Charity.

Something is being left out here - I cannot tell if you did it intentionally.
The Miraculaous Medal was given by Blessed Mary to St. Catherine Laboure, a Daughter of Charity. So it was introduced by Blessed Mary.

My understanding (I know this is debated by skeptics and anti-mystics - those against mysticism -are you one, I wonder?) is that the rosary was introduced by Blessed Mary and she said it will be the means of saving the world; that the brown scapular was also introduced by Blessed Mary.

And as far as St. Faustina in your previous post, you left out the indulgence given for following the ‘rules’ laid out by Jesus to St. Faustina - a soul who does these things on or about that day (Divine Mercy Sunday) will find both their sin AND punishment pardoned. Mercy Sunday is old (Jesus told St. Faustina it had all but been forgotten) , but this part (forgiveness of sin AND punishment) I think is new, and from the St. Faustina visitations. Not that this is new truth either - there is no new truth - it has all been revealed - however, someitmes, it is explained so we are given an opportunity to move from a shallow understanding of a truth into deeper waters of that truth - some private revelations such as the one to St. Faustina seem to do this. (The Jews ahd a Day of Atonement which is very similar to Mercy Sunday, from my limited understanding.)

Fatima reveals no new truth; it is God telling us where we are on the eschatological time line (there is an eschatological time line - i.e Jesus will come again, which is revealed truth.)

One should find it better to encourage people to study more, not less, about Our Lady of Fatima. One will find a daily rosary to be useful here.

 

[beehumble]

I believe Fatima is the most important of all private revelations, in a league of its own. There has been nothing else like it since the Apostles walked the earth.

(To reiterate, it was a request made for the consecration, but a request along the lines of “God wants you to do this. If you do, you will be rewarded. If you don’t, you will be punished.”)

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I believe Fatima is the most important of all private revelations, in a league of its own. There has been nothing else like it since the Apostles walked the earth.

You keep making this claim yet you have failed to show any Church Documents that lay out levels for private apparitions.

 

[Seamus_L]

I don’t recall anyone in this thread actually saying that Fatima has been officially elevated to a dogma. Beehumble is merely expressing a personal opinion.
It's funny, but some of the responses in this thread have just put a picture in my head. It's the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis in the USA and a small child get's up in a Catholic classroom and tells Sister "I don't believe in Our Lady Of Fatima and my parents say the Church doesn't require me to" Oh to see the reaction.

 

[beehumble]

I believe Fatima is the most important of all private revelations, in a league of its own. There has been nothing else like it since the Apostles walked the earth.

You keep making this claim yet you have failed to show any Church Documents that lay out levels for private apparitions.

I do not understand your point. Why do I have to lay out Church documents that lay out levels for private revelations?

If one presumes all private revelations are the same simply because the Church has not ranked them, one is mistaken. The Miracle of the Sun, witnessed by 70,000 to 100,000 people makes it unique (and note the miracle was to have been ‘bigger’ but God scaled it back due to sins.) The fact that much of the 20th century (wars, famines, persecution of the Church and the Holy Father, the spreading of the errors of atheism and modernism) of man related in a way to that apparition makes it unique. What other century after the first had such a private revelation that spoke to a whole century of people? That laid out the upcoming near-future events of man - a ‘good path’ and a ‘bad path’, should the request made through that revelation be heeded or not be heeded?

If you know of one, please tell me so I can know too.

(And i think you or somebody else a few posts back reiterated the definitions of public vs. private revelation. All public revelation ceased with the death of the last Apostle. The one hundred percent Deposit of the Faith was made through the last Apostle. What does that have to do with my statement that “I believe Fatima is the most important of all** private revelations**, in a league of its own. There has been nothing else like it since the Apostles walked the earth.”

I am speaking in the realm of private revelations (the thread is about Fatima, a private revelation), and you keep going on about public revelation. Of course Fatima is not dogma; I never said it was; perhaps you have me confused with somebody else on here?

Again, can you please cite another private revelation that is in the same league as Fatima, so I can know of it? Another revelation that, with an accompanying great miracle witnessed by tens of thousands of people, underlined the importance of its message? i would love to know of another such private revelation, so please let me know.

The last question I have for you is why? God who is perfect never speaks idly, so why did He speak at Fatima at all? Why Fatima? The answer can only be found through prayer, especially the rosary. It is in the realm of the mystical and cannot be gleaned merely with the intellect. In this special time of Grace, all those who pray can glean some interesting answers. Pray, especially the rosary, and one will know the answer to the question, Why Fatima?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I do not understand your point. Why do I have to lay out Church documents that lay out levels for private revelations?

If one presumes all private revelations are the same simply because the Church has not ranked them, one is mistaken. The Miracle of the Sun, witnessed by 70,000 to 100,000 people makes it unique (and note the miracle was to have been ‘bigger’ but God scaled it back due to sins.) The fact that much of the 20th century (wars, famines, persecution of the Church and the Holy Father, the spreading of the errors of atheism and modernism) of man related in a way to that apparition makes it unique. What other century after the first had such a private revelation that spoke to a whole century of people? That laid out the upcoming near-future events of man - a ‘good path’ and a ‘bad path’, should the request made through that revelation be heeded or not be heeded?

If you know of one, please tell me so I can know too.

(And i think you or somebody else a few posts back reiterated the definitions of public vs. private revelation. All public revelation ceased with the death of the last Apostle. The one hundred percent Deposit of the Faith was made through the last Apostle. What does that have to do with my statement that “I believe Fatima is the most important of all** private revelations**, in a league of its own. There has been nothing else like it since the Apostles walked the earth.”

I am speaking in the realm of private revelations (the thread is about Fatima, a private revelation), and you keep going on about public revelation. Of course Fatima is not dogma; I never said it was; perhaps you have me confused with somebody else on here?

Again, can you please cite another private revelation that is in the same league as Fatima, so I can know of it? Another revelation that, with an accompanying great miracle witnessed by tens of thousands of people, underlined the importance of its message? i would love to know of another such private revelation, so please let me know.

The last question I have for you is why? God who is perfect never speaks idly, so why did He speak at Fatima at all? Why Fatima? The answer can only be found through prayer, especially the rosary. It is in the realm of the mystical and cannot be gleaned merely with the intellect. In this special time of Grace, all those who pray can glean some interesting answers. Pray, especially the rosary, and one will know the answer to the question, Why Fatima?

Again, it is still a private revelation and the fact of the miracle of the sun does nothing to change that.

I am speaking to what the Church Teaches, you are speaking your private opinion. The Church does not have “levels” for private apparitions, it rules that they are either “worthy of belief” or not. Not that some are more “worthy of belief”.

As for a miracle that was seen by the public, how about Our Lady of Zeitoun. It is suggested that a least a million saw this miracle but more conservative estimates has it around 250,000.

So by your ranking this should this be more important?

Also you can do a wikipedia search on the Miracle of the Sun and see that there are some scientific causes put forward. I also find it interesting that not all people in the area saw it. Not that I disbelieve in miracles or this one, again I have not investigated Fatima as it plays no role in my spiritual life, I neither believe nor disbelieve, I am just stating that the Church does not require belief and belief in Fatima (or any other private revelation) is not necessary for our salvation.

So I think we should stop our discussion as I we are not really having a discussion as I am talking about what the Church Teaches in the matter of private revelations and you are talking about your opinion which means we are not discussing the same topic.

 

[Pregustator]

I do not understand your point. Why do I have to lay out Church documents that lay out levels for private revelations?

If one presumes all private revelations are the same simply because the Church has not ranked them, one is mistaken. The Miracle of the Sun, witnessed by 70,000 to 100,000 people makes it unique (and note the miracle was to have been ‘bigger’ but God scaled it back due to sins.) The fact that much of the 20th century (wars, famines, persecution of the Church and the Holy Father, the spreading of the errors of atheism and modernism) of man related in a way to that apparition makes it unique. What other century after the first had such a private revelation that spoke to a whole century of people? That laid out the upcoming near-future events of man - a ‘good path’ and a ‘bad path’, should the request made through that revelation be heeded or not be heeded?

If you know of one, please tell me so I can know too.

One is mistaken, according to you. Not according to the Church, however. All that you relate is true only to those who believe in it. I think the point of others on this thread is that no Christian is compelled or bound or instructed by the Church to believe in any of it. I think some people wonder why some Catholics insist that all other Catholics must believe in something that the Church, itself, does not even ask us to believe in, much less require us to.

“But I believe in it completely! I know it’s true, even if you don’t! Therefore you must believe in it now that I have made everything as clear to you as I am capable of making it, no matter what the official Church does or does not demand of you! Otherwise, you are not a good Catholic! Believe in this pious devotion that I am implacably attached to and 100% convinced of, or don’t call yourself a good Catholic!”

That’s what you and others seem to be saying, in essence.

 

[malphono]

Nevertheless the young child would be right.
[/quote]

If I may play a partial “Devil’s Advocate” for a moment …

To be fair, Fatima is an approved apparition, which means that, in the eyes of the Church, it took place. Of course it is still and always considered to be “private revelation” and as such the faithful are not required to honor its message. Some may see this as a fine point, and perhaps it is, but it is important nonetheless. The Church accepts the apparition, but does not raise its message to the level of public revelation.

Lourdes, as I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, is a bit more complicated: there, the Church’s approval includes the words “Je suis l’Immaculée Conception” spoken by the Holy Virgin which do, in fact, reflect something the Church teaches as public revelation.

 

[JReducation]

Something is being left out here - I cannot tell if you did it intentionally.
The Miraculaous Medal was given by Blessed Mary to St. Catherine Laboure, a Daughter of Charity. So it was introduced by Blessed Mary.

I realize that it was through a vision that St. Catherine Laboure had that the Miraculous Medal came to be known by her, but it comes into popularity within the Roman Church through the Daughters of Charity who happen to be a Society of Apostolic Life in the Roman Church. That’s why the Miraculous Medal never reached the height of popularity in the other 22 Catholic Churches or the Orthodox Churches. The Daughters of Charity are not allowed in the Oriental Catholic Churches, because they don’t have secular societies of apostolic life. They only have religious orders and the Daughters are not a religious order. Since they’re not present in the other Churches, the devotion to the Miraculous Medal spreads through them much more slowly and very sparingly.

My understanding (I know this is debated by skeptics and anti-mystics - those against mysticism -are you one, I wonder?)

Far from it, my friend. In fact I teach Mystical and Ascetical Theology. That’s was my doctorate. That’s why I’m very confident that I understand what I’m looking at here. You must also remember, that there is nothing wrong with skpeticism. It protects people from extremes and from false miracles, prophecies, revelations, etc.

is that the rosary was introduced by Blessed Mary and she said it will be the means of saving the world; that the brown scapular was also introduced by Blessed Mary.

And as far as St. Faustina in your previous post, you left out the indulgence given for following the ‘rules’ laid out by Jesus to St. Faustina - a soul who does these things on or about that day (Divine Mercy Sunday) will find both their sin AND punishment pardoned. Mercy Sunday is old (Jesus told St. Faustina it had all but been forgotten) , but this part (forgiveness of sin AND punishment) I think is new, and from the St. Faustina visitations. Not that this is new truth either - there is no new truth - it has all been revealed - however, someitmes, it is explained so we are given an opportunity to move from a shallow understanding of a truth into deeper waters of that truth - some private revelations such as the one to St. Faustina seem to do this. (The Jews ahd a Day of Atonement which is very similar to Mercy Sunday, from my limited understanding.)

Everything that you’re saying is correct, except that the indulgence is granted by the Church, at the request of Jesus. Only the Church can grant indulgences. This is where good Mystical Theology comes into play. It helps us remember that nothing that happens in a mystical experience can be applied without the authority of the Church.

Fatima reveals no new truth; it is God telling us where we are on the eschatological time line (there is an eschatological time line - i.e Jesus will come again, which is revealed truth.)

One should find it better to encourage people to study more, not less, about Our Lady of Fatima. One will find a daily rosary to be useful here.

No one is discouraing people from doing this. What is being explained is that the miracle of Fatima and the messages of Fatima are not dogma and should not be pushed on people as if they were bound to them. We are bound to that which is contained in revelation. The part of the message of Fatima which is found in revelation is binding on all of us: prayer and conversion from sin. The rest is up to private choice. The Church does not require it or interfere with it. This has to be communicated to people when we speak about any miracle. We have to tell people what part of the miracle is binding and what part of the miracle is worthy of belief, but not binding. It does not lose its value because it’s not binding. However, the value of a miracle is cheapened when it is force on someone. Faith without freedom is tyranny, not virtue. That is a core principle of Mystical Theology.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

I believe Fatima is the most important of all private revelations, in a league of its own. There has been nothing else like it since the Apostles walked the earth.

(To reiterate, it was a request made for the consecration, but a request along the lines of “God wants you to do this. If you do, you will be rewarded. If you don’t, you will be punished.”)

As Brother David has said, you continue to make this claim. However, ecclesial authority disagrees with you. Ecclesial authority has the last word on these matters. We are bound to their authority.

The message does not say that the Church will be punished if Russia is not consecrated. The message actually said that Russia would do great harm, if it was not consecrated. There is a difference. The latter is subject to the Pontiff’s belief in the validity of the claim made by the children. As far as we know, Pope John Paul II fulfilled the request. He did consecrate Russia. Anything that a reigning pontiff does, includes all the bishops, because they are in sacramental communion. They do not have to discuss it or be together for the union to exist. There is only one priesthood; therefore, all bishops are part of the same communion. Let’s not make the word “together” or “united” more complicated than it needs to be.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[blackrobe]

Okay this may be just the grammar-nazi growing inside this graduating English Major but aren’t the terms “has to” and “should” synonymous?

I find this sentence rather self-contradictory. :ehh:

No. 'has to" implies obligation; “should” implies fittingness.

It is the distinction between “thou shalt” and " it would be better if you did."

One lasting effect of my modest education in Theology is the central importance of the concept “fitting” in the teaching of the Church.

AMDG
jsa

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

No. 'has to" implies obligation; “should” implies fittingness.

It is the distinction between “thou shalt” and " it would be better if you did."

One lasting effect of my modest education in Theology is the central importance of the concept “fitting” in the teaching of the Church.

Well I use an online dictionary and thesaurus for all my vocabulary references and I’m afraid I don’t find “fittingness” listed in the list of synonyms under “should”. :\

If you can search it here, be my guest.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Well I use an online dictionary and thesaurus for all my vocabulary references and I’m afraid I don’t find “fittingness” listed in the list of synonyms under “should”. :\

If you can search it here, be my guest.

Problem is that you can not use standard dictionaries and such to get the theological usage of terms.

 

[JReducation]

Brother David is right. Standard dictionaries use standard definitions. Every discipline has its own language. I’m not talking about Latin, French, Spanish, etc. I’m talking about the way that it uses words. I’ll offer a simple example. When I was in the medical field a “drip” was an I.V. In the rest of the world, a drip is a constant drop of fluids. In medicine that’s not called a drip, that’s called a hemorrage.

In Mystical Theology, we do not consider ourselves students of mriacles. Mystical means that which is in the realm of grace operating on the soul over and beyond the ordinary. Such operations may include miracles, but they are not required. Miracles may be mystical experiences, but not always. An excellent example of are the children of Fatima and Benadette. None of them were mystics at the time of the miracles. We cannot assign the miraculous and the mystical the same meaning, because they can be the same, operations of grace in an extraordinary manner, but they may not be the same. Since they are not always the same the word “mystical” cannot be interchangeable with miraculous. Very often, the mystical can be explained through reason, albeit with the limitations of human language. The miraculous has no rational explanation.

Going to a dictionary to understand what a word means in a theological writing may be helpful, but not always. A better dictionary would be a Dictionary of Theology or a Dictionary of Philosophy.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[beehumble]

As Brother David has said, you continue to make this claim. However, ecclesial authority disagrees with you. Ecclesial authority has the last word on these matters. We are bound to their authority.

The message does not say that the Church will be punished if Russia is not consecrated. The message actually said that Russia would do great harm, if it was not consecrated. There is a difference. The latter is subject to the Pontiff’s belief in the validity of the claim made by the children. As far as we know, Pope John Paul II fulfilled the request. He did consecrate Russia. **Anything that a reigning pontiff does, includes all the bishops, because they are in sacramental communion. **They do not have to discuss it or be together for the union to exist. There is only one priesthood; therefore, all bishops are part of the same communion. Let’s not make the word “together” or “united” more complicated than it needs to be.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Can you please explain/cite where ecclesial auhority disagrees with me on this matter. (What matter exactly, by the way - that among private revelations Fatima is in a league of its own? ) Please cite a source, and quote it or something…thanks.

And it is incorrect , concerning Fatima, that if the consecration is made by the Pope without explicit union with the bishops, it is still valid. (If the pope implies union with the bishops as you say, **why did God through Blessed Mary explicitly ask for **the Holy Father in union with all the bishops of the world to make the consecration?? Did God make a mistake concerning how the Church He founded operates, not knowing that the papacy alone would suffice since it implies union with the bishops??


Of course not. In fact, Pope John Paul’s first attempt at the consecration was rejected, according to Sr. Lucia, because it was not made with explicit union with enough (a quorum) of bishops. The next try, on March 25, 1984, was accepted, since there was a sufficient quorum of bishops that had been notified and were in agreement.

Other earlier popes also made the consecration, to the world, without explicit unity with bishops, and these too were rejected.

**The request from God made through Blessed Mary, as described by Sr. Lucia herself:
**
“You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world”.

Sister Lucy describes the communication of June 13, 1929, when she was visited by The Holy Trinity and Our Lady:

(June 13, 1929). I had requested and obtained permission from my superiors and my confessor to make a holy hour from 11:00 p.m. to midnight, from Thursday to Friday of each week.

Finding myself alone one night, I knelt down near the Communion rail, in the middle of the chapel, to recite the prayers of the Angel, lying prostrate ... Feeling tired, I got up and continued to recite them with my arms in the form of a cross. The only light was that of the [sanctuary] lamp.

Suddenly, the whole chapel lit up with a supernatural light and on the altar appeared a cross of light which reached the ceiling. In a clearer light, on the upper part of the cross, could be seen the face of a man with His body to the waist, on His chest a dove, equally luminous; and nailed to the cross, the body of another man. A little below the waist [of Christ on the cross], suspended in the air, could be seen a Chalice and a large Host, onto which some drops of Blood were falling, which flowed from the face of the Crucified One and from the wound in His breast. Running down over the Host, these drops fell into the Chalice.

Under the right arm of the cross was Our Lady with Her Immaculate Heart in Her hand ... (She appeared as Our Lady of Fatima, with Her Immaculate Heart in Her left hand, without sword or roses, but with a crown of thorns and flames) under the left arm [of the cross], in large letters, like crystalline water which flowed over the altar, forming these words: "Grace and Mercy". I understood that the mystery of the Most Holy Trinity was shown to me, and I received lights about this mystery which I am not permitted to reveal.

Then Our Lady said to me: ‘**The moment has come in which God asks the Holy Father to make, in union with all the bishops of the world, the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, promising to save it by this means. So numerous are the souls which the justice of God condemns for sins committed against Me, that I come to ask for reparation. Sacrifice yourself for this intention and pray.**’

I rendered an account of this to my confessor, who ordered me to write down what Our Lord willed to be done.

 

[beehumble]

(cont’d)
**Fatima, of course, is not dogma, but people would be wise to heed the warnings. **

Why did God bother with the whole Fatima thing? Is there an answer for this? There has to be a reason. Did they explain it in the Mystical Studies you undertook, and if so, could you please share some of it?