Fatima, the work of satan?

[JonathanKinsman]

1 John 4
Test the Spirits
1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
4You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

Confession time maybe?

SIMON: Yes, it is confession time: Mary always directs attention and prayers to her son our Lord. That was part of the message of Fatima. Gee, pray to God for the conversion of the souls of Russia; focus on Christ in your prayers (the sacred heart passages); ask forgiveness for sins from God; ask for mercy.

I confessed. How about you???

 

[myfavoritmartin]

JonathanKinsman:
SIMON: Yes, it is confession time: Mary always directs attention and prayers to her son our Lord. That was part of the message of Fatima. Gee, pray to God for the conversion of the souls of Russia; focus on Christ in your prayers (the sacred heart passages); ask forgiveness for sins from God; ask for mercy.

I confessed. How about you???
Jon!
What are the fruits of this vision?
???

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Jon, what are the fruits of this vision?

Matthew 7:15-16

A Tree and Its Fruit
15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

THIS IS A SERIOUS QUESTION?

 

[LilyM]

SIMON: Yes, it is confession time: Mary always directs attention and prayers to her son our Lord. That was part of the message of Fatima. Gee, pray to God for the conversion of the souls of Russia; focus on Christ in your prayers (the sacred heart passages); ask forgiveness for sins from God; ask for mercy.

I confessed. How about you???

Jon!
What are the fruits of this vision?
???

Confession and repentance of sins, greater prayer to and devotion to Christ and respect for Mary, greater awareness of hell and efforts to live a holy life so as not to go there.

Anything wrong with any of this? Anything satanic about it?

 

[JonathanKinsman]

off the subject you claimed I was relying on SS to answer questions( I haven’t), it seems your using it to label me so you can avoid them… look at your post you haven’t dealt with anything of context other than attacking me…Very Charitable.

incidently the vulgate as far as accuracy is as pathetic as the KJV in translation.

SIMON: You were the one against the many! It was YOUR quote, my friend. Charitable, heck! I was being inerrant by quoting your words!

You are misusing Matthew 10:37 to shore up your argument about Fatima and Mary. THAT IS AN EXAMPLE of NOT READING SCRIPTURE IN CONTEXT.

I can’t make it any clearer, friend. As to your allegation about my comment about comparing us Catholics with SDAs and Mormons (the private vision quote of yours) and the DATE CONTROVERSY (looks official that way, huh?): a Catholic author relating events about Fatima with interviews and research does not an INERRANT DOGMA make about ANYTHING, let alone Mary, private revelation, et cetera ad nauseum (for the second time since you obviously missed the point initially).

Tattoo reference: Don’t be so touchy. It was meant to show that you can’t take every little thing in the OT literally! I don’t care if you have tattoos or not, but I’m sorry to have touched a nerve!

SS reference: You brought it up so don’t accuse ME of being off topic!!

 

[myfavoritmartin]

SIMON: You were the one against the many! It was YOUR quote, my friend. Charitable, heck! I was being inerrant by quoting your words!

You are misusing Matthew 10:37 to shore up your argument about Fatima and Mary. THAT IS AN EXAMPLE of NOT READING SCRIPTURE IN CONTEXT.

I can’t make it any clearer, friend. As to your allegation about my comment about comparing us Catholics with SDAs and Mormons (the private vision quote of yours) and the DATE CONTROVERSY (looks official that way, huh?): a Catholic author relating events about Fatima with interviews and research does not an INERRANT DOGMA make about ANYTHING, let alone Mary, private revelation, et cetera ad nauseum (for the second time since you obviously missed the point initially).

Tattoo reference: Don’t be so touchy. It was meant to show that you can’t take every little thing in the OT literally! I don’t care if you have tattoos or not, but I’m sorry to have touched a nerve!

SS reference: You brought it up so don’t accuse ME of being off topic!!

Good night Jon, your paragraphs are running together as bad or worse than mine… Go in Peace Serve The Lord…
I’ll respond tomorrow… Good night!
Our Lord He is worthy to be sought!
Simon

 

[JonathanKinsman]

Jon, what are the fruits of this vision?

Matthew 7:15-16

A Tree and Its Fruit
15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

THIS IS A SERIOUS QUESTION?

SIMON: And here is a serious answer: of all the so-called Marian apparitions which have been approved (check the Vatican website for these) NONE of them, I repeat, NONE of them have said anything different from scripture or have changed Catholic dogma derived from scripture and Tradition, NONE of them has proposed a new condition for salvation (a done deal) or for being saved (what one must do in faith and works).

The whole concept of Mary in the Catholic Church gives most Protestants and all Mormons the heebie-jeebies. It has been shoved down your throats by Chick publications, televangelists, (my personal favorite) “former” Catholic priests for which no record of ordination of Holy Orders exists, that we put Mary on par with Jesus and God. This is a lie, a vicious lie. And to carry that lie into this Forum under the guise of Mary=Satan at Fatima is DEFINITELY NOT CHARITABLE.

Enough said. Good night and God bless us everyone.

 

[Jasny]

“God wishes you to remain in the world for some time because He wants you to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart for the Heart of Jesus wants my Immaculate Heart to be venerated by His side.
I promise salvation to those who embrace it and their souls would be loved by God as the flowers placed by myself adorning His throne.”

When I read this type of stuff I can’t help but wonder how many of you think its Mary and how many the work of satan?

2nd corinthians talks of satan disguised as a beautiful angel.
Just curious…

I just read the messages of Fatima and your quote “I promise salvation to those who embrace it” was not there.

What was there that is close but wasn’t during the visions of Fatima but to Sr. Lucia later: "that I promise to assist at the hour of death, with the graces necessary for salvation, all those who, on the first Saturday of five consecutive months, shall confess, receive Holy Communion, recite five decades of the Rosary, and keep me company for fifteen minutes while meditating on the fifteen mysteries of the Rosary, with the intention of making reparation to me.”Fatima messages

Lets try and be more accurate

 

[myfavoritmartin]

I just read the messages of Fatima and your quote “I promise salvation to those who embrace it” was not there.

What was there that is close but wasn’t during the visions of Fatima but to Sr. Lucia later: "that I promise to assist at the hour of death, with the graces necessary for salvation, all those who, on the first Saturday of five consecutive months, shall confess, receive Holy Communion, recite five decades of the Rosary, and keep me company for fifteen minutes while meditating on the fifteen mysteries of the Rosary, with the intention of making reparation to me.”Fatima messages

Lets try and be more accurate

lets read more thoroughly…

You obviously haven’t read this thread nearly as well, I corrected myself! and asked to be forgiven for mistating it as I was going off of Ratzingers translation and not the other 20 of them.Many would be saved was the actual term…for the phrase I was speaking of.----> Souls Saved —Salvation.
do you see the connection here?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

The criterion for the truth and value of a private revelation is therefore its orientation to Christ himself. When it leads us away from him, when it becomes independent of him or even presents itself as another and better plan of salvation, more important than the Gospel, then it certainly does not come from the Holy Spirit, who guides us more deeply into the Gospel and not away from it.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

But Fatima does not lead us away from Christ.

I’ll repeat, Fatima does not lead us away from Christ.

The fruits of Fatima: Penance, conversion, prayer to Jesus for salvation, increased devotion to Jesus through Mary, love of neighbor, and greater obedience in humility to the will of God.

Every single one of those fruits is in total accordance with Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Not one is contradicted by Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Not one is even remotely "satanic’.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Just remember you can tell a good plant by its fruits not its roots.

In Him you can be enriched in every way, He’ll keep you strong to the very end! our Lord is Faithful. He is the Truth, faith in Him that He died for us, that He rose again and in Him we will see eternity.
He is worthy to be sought!!!
Simon

My garden grows wonderful fruits thank you. These fruits are a blessing from GOD and we eat them every year. And the reason is wonderful God given roots planted in God given ground. No roots no fruit. Simple farming. Also you can’t know how good the fruit will be till after the roots are firmly in place. And even then the proof is in the eating not the beauty. If I stop tending my ground based garden there will still be fruit. Yes there will be weeds but still the fruit will come up just not as wonderful as if I tended it.

Fatima is known by its miracles which is the fruit of its garden.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Fatima is known by its miracles which is the fruit of its garden.

Matthew 7:18: : A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19: Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20: Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Why Simon, I’m hurt that you ignored my post which preceded Kathleen’s.

May I, again?

**The fruits of Fatima: Penance, conversion, prayer to Jesus for salvation, increased devotion to Jesus through Mary, love of neighbor, and greater obedience in humility to the will of God.

Every single one of those fruits is in total accordance with Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Not one is contradicted by Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Not one is even remotely "satanic’.**

And since you’ve been careful to side note the “wonderful works in your name” quote. . .let’s not forget that there have been many excellent Protestants who have done excellent deeds who might also be considered in the light of your quote just as you apparently consider some Catholics to be. . .

 

[KathleenElsie]

Matthew 7:18: : A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19: Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20: Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

I am so glad you now agree with me. Fatima has produced many good fruits. And by the fruit you will know where the miracles came from.

 

[Eireann]

Matthew 7:18: : A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Wheres the evil fruit of Fatima, would the main one be drawing us closer to God ?

Prophecies were made and came true, satanic prophecies don’t come true, I asked you to provide one and your effort just didn’t cut the mustard.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Why Simon, I’m hurt that you ignored my post which preceded Kathleen’s.

May I, again?

**The fruits of Fatima: Penance, conversion, prayer to Jesus for salvation, increased devotion to Jesus through Mary, love of neighbor, and greater obedience in humility to the will of God.

Every single one of those fruits is in total accordance with Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Not one is contradicted by Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Not one is even remotely "satanic’.**

And since you’ve been careful to side note the “wonderful works in your name” quote. . .let’s not forget that there have been many excellent Protestants who have done excellent deeds who might also be considered in the light of your quote just as you apparently consider some Catholics to be. . .

After each of your commas please explain how each was done.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

The criterion for the truth and value of a private revelation is therefore its orientation to Christ himself. When it leads us away from him, when it becomes independent of him or even presents itself as another and better plan of salvation, more important than the Gospel, then it certainly does not come from the Holy Spirit, who guides us more deeply into the Gospel and not away from it.

SIMON: Whoa! You’re beginning to sound like the Catholics who have answered you on this thread! What happened to the ‘test spirits’ proof?

More importantly: why the new Tag Line? Are you implying (again) something untoward and uncharitable about Leo X ?

What is your source for this quotation?

Did you know fabula (Latin) means ‘narration, story, or account’ not the fable of American English (my American Heritage gives as its third definition: “A falsehood. A lie.”)

I hope you weren’t Catholic bashing with this new signature quote.

 

[Guardian333]

Greetings,

There are problems when Protestants view Catholic private revelations from their perspective due to Sola Scriptura and the lack of a Magisterium to help them interpret scripture, doctrines, and other matters of faith. This is a major stumbling block.

There is a good book which I recommend to people on this thread. Beginning Apologetics #6 “How to Explain and Defend Mary (Catholic Answers Special Edition) by Father Frank Chacon & Jim Burnham – San Juan Catholic Seminars.

To reiterate the book: There are several “stumbling blocks” which keep non-Catholics from appreciating Mary:

1. Thinking in “Either/Or” Categories. For example, they say you love either Jesus or Mary, you follow either Jesus or the Pope. This “either/or” mentality is at the root of most doctrinal differences between Catholicism and Protestantism. Protestants tend to divide what Catholics unite. Their theology pits the Bible against Tradition, faith against works, prayer to God against prayer to saints, etc. These pairs are complements, not competitors. These pairs are complements, not competitors, The Catholic approach is “both/and”
   The Bible does not place Mary in opposition to Jesus. Jesus and Mary are on the same team. **The honor we give to Mary she in turn gives to God (Luke 1:46-55). **
2. Misunderstanding Doctrinal Development
3. Confusing Doctrinal Definition with Doctrinal Invention
4. Restricting God’s Word to Sola Scriptura : Protestants aggressively challenge Marian doctrines with their “Bible alone” idea. Sola scriptura is the lens through which they view all religious questions. Some Marian beliefs depend for their fullness on Sacred Tradition. To dialogue effectively with non-Catholics about Mary, you must first refute sola scriptura. After refuting sola scriptura, you can establish the solid bliblical and historical basis for Marian beliefs.

I suggest people obtain that book that I mentioned above.

myfavoritmartin, I will be praying for you. I will offer time with the Rosary & Blessed Sacrament on your behalf. Jesus & Mary is calling you to fullness of faith. Humble yourself with Proverbs 3:5 Only love, grace, prayers, & humility will win your heart to Jesus & Mary together. God bless.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Quote:
Originally Posted by myfavoritmartin forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
*Matthew 7:18: : A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
*

The same scriptures you used.

Matthew ch7 vs18
A variety the produces delicious fruit never produces n inedible kind. A tree that produces an inedible kind can’t produce that which is good.