Fatima, the work of satan?

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Tantum_ergo said:
If you choose to believe, you must believe it to be an authentic miracle. If you don’t chose, you must simply grant that you yourself cannot yet find the grace to accept it. . .and that’s that.
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So you are saying that Fatima IS true. If one doesn’t believe it, they must believe it is, indeed, true, but they simply don’t have the right graces to accept it as truth…correct? So, in other words, Fatima IS truth, and all Catholics must believe it as such, and if they don’t they still must and just say they aren’t in possession of such graces to believe the truth? Am I understanding you correctly?
 
myfavoritmartin,

I remember you were asking someone about why Jesus appeared together with Virgin Mary as Baby Jesus, but I could no longer find that reply.

Anyway, this is how one could see: how many times do you go out or to the church and see a mother holding her baby. What is your mind? Is there any time you think of Love - love of the mother for the baby? I am sure we all think of it.

This love is also seen when we see Virgin Mary with the Baby Jesus. It tells us how much the Virgin Mary loves Jesus, and she wants us to love Him too.

Now, you might ask why Jesus was not in His 33-year-old appearance and in a baby and wouldn’t say anything to us? You can ask yourself how many times do you think Jesus speaks to you directly? or it is your parents, your pastors, your friends, who, with God’s help, talk to you. Therefore, it is the Virgin Mary - who Jesus grants graces - to talk to us.

Another question you may ask - why He was still a baby Jesus. It is because He wants to tell you one thing - no matter how old you are, you are still a little baby to your parents. Jesus, who was obedient to Virgin Mary, knows and wants all of us know that - the Virgin Mary is His Mother and therefore, She is also your Mother.

Because She is your Mother, you should honor Her as you honor your biological parents.

The event of Fatima is the work of God!

God bless!
 
So you are saying that Fatima IS true. If one doesn’t believe it, they must believe it is, indeed, true, but they simply don’t have the right graces to accept it as truth…correct? So, in other words, Fatima IS truth, and all Catholics must believe it as such, and if they don’t they still must and just say they aren’t in possession of such graces to believe the truth? Am I understanding you correctly?
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Yes, Fatima “is true” in so far as it existed and was found to be not in antethesis to Church teachings. As we have seen from other threads, the basic ‘truth’ of a matter exists whether or not the truth is accepted.

Jesus Christ IS Lord–that is true whether you believe in Him or not.

There is no way that Fatima can be 'limited true, relatively true, or true only for those who believe". It is either true or false. Because it is ‘private revelation’ (the last public revelation ceased with the death of St. John the Evangelist) it is not necessary for a Catholic to treat it as they do dogma. But it cannot be dismissed as fakery.

As a Catholic you are free to, as it were, ‘not think’ of Fatima, in that Fatima is not a ‘new’ revelation. All the things that were said at Fatima have been said, and taught, by Catholics from the beginning. There is nothing “new” here. One is not obliged to ‘think of’ Lourdes, or Knock, or any other approved apparition; one is not obligated to "think of "St. Faustina, the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, etc. All of the prayers, etc. are good and useful for those who choose, but none of them are “new doctrine” and thus none of them is in itself ‘required’ for salvation. But again, none are ‘false’.
 
I am amazed this thread has continued. I was established many posts ago that Fatima most definitely is not the work of satan.
 
water said:
myfavoritmartin,

INow, you might ask why Jesus was not in His 33-year-old appearance and in a baby and wouldn’t say anything to us? You can ask yourself how many times do you think Jesus speaks to you directly?
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The Holy Spirit almost daily, obviously not in a verbal manner though.
water said:
Because She is your Mother, you should honor Her as you honor your biological parents.

God bless!
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My parents are deceased! How do I honor them?
She is Christs’ Mother and I respect her as such!
She too needed a Saviour!
 
Tom317 said:
I am amazed this thread has continued. I was established many posts ago that Fatima most definitely is not the work of satan.
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Over 4000 views, its a ligitimate concern!
And no it wasn’t established.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Hi Eden, on the other hand if our teachings are the ones following the instructions recorded by the apostles, and kept up by the early church, and not ones that have developed over time by human traditions then it seems to me that the church whom followed human tradition would be the easier target to decieve and deception is the biggest weapon the devil has in his arsenal.
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You missed the point :
IF the Catholic Church is following developed, human traditions then Satan does not need to interfere further - he has already succeeded.
IF the Protestants have laid claim to the authentic Apostolic faith, then they are the ones Satan should be attacking with apparitions, but he is not.
 
I think that anyone who practices this devotion is most likely a very devout person normally. They are probably going to confession regularly and attending Mass as is expected, perhaps even daily. This would mean that salvation is probably theirs anyway. Of course if a person is in mortal sin, there would not be salvation. It would depend on the sincerity and piety of the person practicing the First Five Saturdays devotion. Only God can judge that.
Our Blessed Mother has been appearing since the very early centuries. I believe there was an apparition to one of the apostles after Her death. Being the Mother of God, She would want to help us achieve salvation, so it is only natural that at certain times God would ask Her to help us. For the most part you can see that She mainly promotes praying the rosary and other devotions to Jesus. Fatima is really no different. She is promoting confession, Holy Communion, and Mass on a regular basis.
With all of these Holy practices come salvation!!! 🙂
God Bless!
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Jane,
you avoided this, it really was Mary but our Lord decided to show himself as a babe…Jane, really your an intelligent person… Give me your best as to why Mary would be Mary, but Jesus would be a helpless babe…
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I’m not Jane, but how about this:
The vision was to 3 young children. A vision of a grown Jesus might not mean the same thing to them as a vision of the HOLY FAMILY. You are viewing the vision from an adult’s point of view, these were children. My younger children identify with the Holy Family, especially Baby Jesus, more than the crucified Jesus. Family is easy to grasp for them, they experience Mother, Father and Baby everyday. Also, I don’t think Satan would appear to innocent, baptised, praying children–what would be the point, really…

Jennifer
 
Simon,

As I stated before, one of the main reasons Protestants have a hard time understanding the Marian apparitions in the Catholic Church is because some Protestants restrict God’s word to Sola Scriptura. Your faith in Sola Scriptura is very evident. Catholics don’t believe in Sola Scriptura. This is why this thread keeps going and going.

Private revelations approved by the Church are a blessing that Protestants lack because it shows that Heaven still communicates with us in a supernatural way, and they are numerous.

Simon, please. You are not trying to ask for understanding, in truth, you are seeking to debate out of pride. You must humble yourself to understand God and His handmaid, Mary. It will require you to think outside your Protestant box of thinking in order to understand approved Marian apparitions, and Catholic private revelations in general. I told you to reflect on Proverbs 3:5, but you’re not listening.

The Venerable Mother Mary of Jesus of Agreda (1602-1665) was a Spanish nun who was visited by the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, and told to write down her visions that would be given. In her visions contained the life of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the creation of the angels and the fall of Lucifer, the creation of the world, the location of Hell, intimate details of Our Lord’s life, etc.

Venerable Sister Anne Catherine Emmerich (1774-1824) was a 19th century German Augustinian nun who was given many revelations through visions by Jesus Christ. In her visions she saw many things that affirm Catholic faith & doctrine e.g. Purgatory, The Virgin Mary, Heaven, the communion of Saints, etc. She saw that Protestants suffer much more than Catholics while in purgatory because no one prays for them or offers Mass to them.

Sister Josefa Menendez (1890-1923) was a Spanish nun who was visited by Our Lord in her convent in France. In her revelations from Our Lord, He explained to her why He instituted the Holy Eucharist and the Sacrament of Penance. He instituted them because of Love. He was saddened by people’s indifference and lack of faith in these Sacraments in particular.

Revelations by way of appearance of Jesus and Mary have been occurring throughout the centuries in the Catholic church to affirm our faith. Simon the only way you will understand and accept any Catholic revelation is if you humble yourself to re-evaluate your belief in Sola Scriptura.
(Edited by Moderator)
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In Jesus name, I humbly ask you to recant this out of love for your neighbor.

Sources:

The Life & Revelations of Anne Catherine Emmerich, by Carle E. Schmoger, CSSR

The Mystical City of God, by Venerable Mary of Agreda

I Wait For You: Jesus’ Lament Over Man’s Indifference, Selected and Arranged from “The Way of Divine Love”, by Sister Josefa Menendez
 
myfavoritmartin said:
The Holy Spirit almost daily, obviously not in a verbal manner though.

My parents are deceased! How do I honor them?
She is Christs’ Mother and I respect her as such!
She too needed a Saviour!
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Yes, His work is daily and He also speak through others as you think he does with you.

You can still honor your parents by living a good Christian. You can honor them by listening to what they had taught you.
You can also believe that your parents are in Heaven and that they now are more alive than you think.

Sure, we all need Jesus! and you say She is Christ’s Mother. How honor that would be?
 
I was taught with Christ comes salvation.
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OK … I said that wrong …:o Yes salvation comes through Christ!
If a person is recieving the sacraments and attending Mass regularly, then that person is living as Jesus wishes. That person is worshipping God. The salvation that comes from these Holy Practices are bring salvation through Christ.
 
This thread is long over…keep going over the same stuff. I do have one question for you Simon…So from what a gather You are saying Jesus is the only one we should be focused on right? Anything else is a distraction and could put our Salvation in pearl right? So how in the heck can we spread the word?? If I tell others about Jesus or that is the only way for salvation…Is this the work of Satan? When you come and post on this forum about how we all should follow Jesus…is that the work of Satan? If Billy Graham or your Pastor comes to you and says Jesus is the way…are they the tools of Satan? They are doing the same thing Mary is doing.
 
Just one more thing…So how can pointing someone towards Jesus be bad?
How can telling someone to pray to Jesus be bad? How can telling someone we need to rededicate our life to Jesus be bad? So if Billy Graham points us towards Jesus is it a different Jesus then the one Mary points to? If your Pastor points towards Jesus. Is that a different Jesus then the one Mary is pointing to? Could you explain these two different Jesus’s to me please.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
The Holy family wasn’t crucified and resurrected for us???
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My, you can twist anyone’s words to suit yourself, can’t you? You know, I used to be a Baptist, converted over 10 years ago, of my own free will and after much study. You’re hard heartedness to even the simplest ideas is really disheartening. My YOUNG children identify with the Holy Family EASIER than the Crucified Jesus. We usually don’t focus on Jesus crucified until they are a bit older (Kindergarten or more depending on the child). Until that time, we focus more on the Christmas story and that Jesus is special and loves us. It in no way replaces the sacrifice of Jesus, but it’s a starting point for children to learn about Jesus. All I’m suggesting is that these were young, fairly innocent and uneducated children. This vision of the Holy Family is one they could easily grasp and understand. One that touches their heart in a different way then an adult Jesus.

Additionally, Mary was certainly present at her Son’s crucifiction and to say it didn’t affect her is to NOT have a grasp of reality. She, more than any of us, knows what Jesus did for ALL of us. You diminish her role in her Son’s life, which is sad. One of his dying thoughts was of his mother and that John take care of her. I’d say, she’s pretty important to Him, wouldn’t you?

May God bless you,
Jennifer
 
Somehow I missed Simon’s original question about why the Holy Family apparition appeared to the children during the Miracle of the Sun.

That is a compelling question. I’m going to do some research on this by consulting the records on the apparition of the Blessed Virgin over the Virgin Mary Coptic Orthodox Church. Those apparitions at various intervals over a year’s time were seen by millions (Catholics, Protestants, Muslims and Atheists). One key factor about her apparition at Zeitoun is that that this church was in the path that the Holy Family would have taken as they fled into Egypt.

Two important aspects accompanied these apparitions: The first is an incredible revival of the faith in God, the other world and the saints, leading to repentance and conversion of many who strayed away from the faith. The second are the numerous miracles of healing which were verified by many physicians to be miraculous in nature.

The Egyptian government’s official investigation concluded the following about these apparitions:

Report of General Information and Complaints Department, Cairo, Egypt, 1968

"Official investigations have been carried out with the result that it has been considered an undeniable fact that the Blessed Virgin Mary has been appearing on Zeitoun Church in a clear and bright luminous body seen by all present in front of the church, whether Christians or Moslems.

zeitun-eg.org/stmary9.htm

So, why the Holy Family? Why an apparition of the infant Jesus? My first reaction was that these are images that Catholics would immediately recognize from our artwork - that they were being giving images that would have been familiar and full of meaning. But perhaps there is a deeper meaning to these specific apparitions that I hadn’t thought about. Thanks for calling our attention to this question, Simon. It’s a fascinating question. If I find anything useful to share from my research, I’ll do so.

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The Blessed Mother and a dove over the Virgin Mary Church in Egypt.

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Apparition of the Virgin and the Infant Jesus above the same Church.

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