Fatima, the work of satan?

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Excerpt from the Apparition of 13 May 1917

Will you offer yourselves to God, and bear all the sufferings He sends you? In atonement for all the sins that offend Him? And for the conversion of sinners?
“Oh, we will, we will!”

Then you will have a great deal to suffer, but the grace of God will be with you and will strengthen you.
Lucia relates that as the Lady pronounced these words, she opened her hands, and
we were bathed in a heavenly light that appeared to come directly from her hands. The light’s reality cut into our hearts and our souls, and we knew somehow that this light was God, and we could see ourselves embraced in it. By an interior impulse of grace we fell to our knees, repeating in our hearts: “Oh, Holy Trinity, we adore You. My God, my God, I love You in the Blessed Sacrament.”

Excerpt from the Apparition of 13 June 1917

I want you to come here on the thirteenth of next month. I want you to continue saying the Rosary every day. And after each one of the mysteries, my children, I want you to pray in this way: O my Jesus, forgive us our sins , save us from the fire of hell. Take all souls to heaven, especially those who are most in need.

Excerpt from the Apparition of 13 July 1917

Make sacrifices for sinners, and say often, especially while making a sacrifice: O Jesus, this is for love of Thee, for the conversion of sinners, and in reparation for offences committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

**When you pray the Rosary, say after each mystery: O my Jesus, forgive us, save us from the fire of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those who are most in need. **
Excerpt from the Apparition of 17 Aug. 1917
Pray, pray very much. Make sacrifices for sinners. Many souls go to hell, because no one is willing to help them with sacrifice.
 
You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world”.(7)
 
THIRD PART OF THE “SECRET”
(original text)

“J.M.J.
The third part of the secret revealed at the Cova da Iria-Fatima, on 13 July 1917.
I write in obedience to you, my God, who command me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your Most Holy Mother and mine.
After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: ‘Penance, Penance, Penance!’. And we saw in an immense light that is God: ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it’ a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father’. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God.
Tuy-3-1-1944
 
Excerpt from the Apparition of 13 Sept. 1917

**Continue the Rosary, my children. Say it every day that the war may end. In October Our Lord will come, as well as Our Lady of Sorrows and Our Lady of Mt. Carmel. Saint Joseph will appear with the Child Jesus to bless the world. **

Excerpt from the Apparition of 13 Oct. 1917

After our Lady had disappeared into the immense distance of the firmament, we beheld St. Joseph with the Child Jesus and Our Lady robed in white with a blue mantle, beside the sun. St. Joseph and the Child Jesus seemed to bless the world, for they tracedthe Sign of the Cross with their hands. When, a little later, this apparition disappeared, I saw Our Lord and Our lady; it seemed to me to that it was Our Lady of Sorrows (Dolors).Our Lord appeared to bless the world in the same manner as St. Joseph had done. This apparition also vanished, and I saw Our Lady once more, this time resembling Our Lady of Carmel. [Only Lucia would see the latter, presaging her entrance into Carmel some years later.]

This would be the last of the apparitions of Fátima for Jacinta and Francisco. However, for Lucia Our Lady would return a seventh time, in 1920, as she had promised the previous May. At that time Lucia would be praying in the Cova before leaving Fátima for a girls boarding school. The Lady would come to urge her to dedicate herself wholly to God.

You may believe that satan requests people to pray, dedicate themselves wholly to God, request that we ask Jesus to forgive us, request that we pray “O Jesus, this is for the love of Thee…” But I do not believe he would.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
I’ve given you verses, example the Christ in flesh one… show in the message of the vision where the vision is qualified according to the verse that tells you how to test spirits… . .

Something anything in the message that does anything even remotely close…
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How about this:

On July 13, 1917, Our Lady appeared to the children and among the things she told them were:
  1. “Make sacrifices for sinners, and say often, especially while making a sacrifice: ‘O Jesus, this is for love of Thee, for the conversion of sinners, and in reparation for offences committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary.’”
Here, the Blessed Mother acknowledges her Son. She instructs the children to offer their sacrifices to Jesus for sinners. She commends them to her Immaculate Heart which, as you concede has already been clearly explained (see post #283), always maginifies the Lord through obedience to His will (see Luke chapter 1).
  1. “When you pray the Rosary, say after each mystery: O my Jesus, forgive us, save us from the fire of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those who are most in need.”
Here, the Blessed Mother acknowledges her Son as the Savior who alone can “save us from the fire of hell.” She teaches the children to depend on Jesus to “lead all souls to heaven.” She instructs them to pray the Rosary. The first of the Joyful Mysteries of the most holy rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary is the Annunciation. Reflection upon this mystery reveals the moment of Incarnation, when God took flesh in the form of a baby in the Blessed Mother’s womb. The third Joyful Mystery is the Nativity of our Lord. Reflection upon this mystery reveals the birth of our Savior.

On October 13, 1917, Our Lady appeared to the children, there were gathered about 70.000 people who witness incredible phenomena with the sun.
Our Lady revealed herself as " Our Lady of the Rosary."

Here, the Blessed Mother identifies herself to the children. The children are now assured that the apparition is the person of the Blessed Mother, also known as Our Lady of the Rosary. Knowing the rosary, the children also know that Mary is the mother of the Savior. Knowing the rosary, the children also know that the Savior came in the flesh for the salvation of men.

Thus, the Blessed Mother acknowledges her Son in the Flesh by identifying herself as “Our Lady of the Rosary,” as the Rosary is a relective prayer upon the Life, Death, Ressurection and saving power of her Son, Jesus Christ who is Word made Flesh.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died of fear and terror.

“
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What is disturbing about this? Let’s look back at the first Apparition which is being referred to here:

Please don’t be afraid of me, I’m not going to harm you.
Lucia responded for all three, as she would throughout the apparitions.
“Where are you from?”
I come from heaven.
The Lady wore a pure white mantle, edged with gold and which fell to her feet. In her hands the beads of a rosary shone like stars, with its crucifix the most radiant gem of all. Still, Lucia felt no fear. The Lady’s presence produced in her only gladness and confident joy.
“And what do you want of me?”

I want you to return here on the thirteenth of each month for the next six months, and at the very same hour. Later I shall tell you who I am, and what it is that I most desire. And I shall return here yet a seventh time.
“And shall I go to heaven?”

Yes, you will.
“And Jacinta?”

She will go too.

“And Francisco?”

Francisco, too, my dear, but he will first have many Rosaries to say.
And later in the same apparition:

Will you offer yourselves to God, and bear all the sufferings He sends you? In atonement for all the sins that offend Him? And for the conversion of sinners?
“Oh, we will, we will!”

Then you will have a great deal to suffer, but the grace of God will be with you and will strengthen you.
Lucia relates that as the Lady pronounced these words, she opened her hands, and
we were bathed in a heavenly light that appeared to come directly from her hands. The light’s reality cut into our hearts and our souls, and we knew somehow that this light was God, and we could see ourselves embraced in it. By an interior impulse of grace we fell to our knees, repeating in our hearts: “Oh, Holy Trinity, we adore You. My God, my God, I love You in the Blessed Sacrament.”

Sorry, Simon. I’m just not seeing this as a conversation with satan. I know you believe satan had this conversation with the children, but I don’t believe satan would inspire them to fall to their knees and exclaim, "Oh, Holy Trinity, we adore You. My God, my God, I love You in the Blessed Sacrament."
 
Eden said:
What is disturbing about this? Let’s look back at the first Apparition which is being referred to here:

Please don’t be afraid of me, I’m not going to harm you.
Lucia responded for all three, as she would throughout the apparitions.
“Where are you from?”
I come from heaven.
The Lady wore a pure white mantle, edged with gold and which fell to her feet. In her hands the beads of a rosary shone like stars, with its crucifix the most radiant gem of all. Still, Lucia felt no fear. The Lady’s presence produced in her only gladness and confident joy.
“And what do you want of me?”

I want you to return here on the thirteenth of each month for the next six months, and at the very same hour. Later I shall tell you who I am, and what it is that I most desire. And I shall return here yet a seventh time.
“And shall I go to heaven?”

Yes, you will.
“And Jacinta?”

She will go too.

“And Francisco?”

Francisco, too, my dear, but he will first have many Rosaries to say.
And later in the same apparition:

Will you offer yourselves to God, and bear all the sufferings He sends you? In atonement for all the sins that offend Him? And for the conversion of sinners?
“Oh, we will, we will!”

Then you will have a great deal to suffer, but the grace of God will be with you and will strengthen you.
Lucia relates that as the Lady pronounced these words, she opened her hands, and
we were bathed in a heavenly light that appeared to come directly from her hands. The light’s reality cut into our hearts and our souls, and we knew somehow that this light was God, and we could see ourselves embraced in it. By an interior impulse of grace we fell to our knees, repeating in our hearts: “Oh, Holy Trinity, we adore You. My God, my God, I love You in the Blessed Sacrament.”

Sorry, Simon. I’m just not seeing this as a conversation with satan. I know you believe satan had this conversation with the children, but I don’t believe satan would inspire them to fall to their knees and exclaim, "Oh, Holy Trinity, we adore You. My God, my God, I love You in the Blessed Sacrament."
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The conversation reminds me of the movie.
myfavoritmartin, you should check out the movie about Fatima and the three young children. It is wonderful.
 
water said:
The conversation reminds me of the movie.
myfavoritmartin, you should check out the movie about Fatima and the three young children. It is wonderful.
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I’ve seen it B/W on EWTN.😃
 
myfavoritmartin said:
So scripture is pretty clear on this, and you guys are rejecting it?
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Not rejecting the slightest bit of it - simply saying there is so much more to testing the spirits than that one line of scripture. Which by the way you haven’t convincingly demonstrated IS contravened by Fatima!

The very appearance of Our Lady ITSELF is a wordless acknowledgement (you do understand that people can communicate withOUT words as well as with them?) that Christ came in the flesh. For starters she would have no importance, no significance and would not appear anywhere if he hadn’t!

And she (and the angel and the children) wouldn’t direct us back to God, to praying to Him, to making penance to Him, to not sinning against Him, to the fact that He is offended by our sins, to receiving His Eucharist, His ‘Lord’s Supper’ if you will, to pleading for His mercy and salvation, if Fatima was of Satan.

Now it’s entirely possible that the children were misguided, not seeing Mary or the Angel at all. There’s a difference, as I’m sure you can understand, between visions apparitions and messages that are incorrect or not supernatural and those that are Satanic. Not everything - not NEARLY everything - that is misguided is of Satan. Even Christ said ‘whoever is not against us is with us’.

But it is as close to impossible as these things can ever get that the visions of Fatima are Satanic.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
So scripture is pretty clear on this, and you guys are rejecting it?
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No, we’re trying to get our hands around it.

If Scripture says that spirits “not of God” will not profess the incarnation of Jesus, and Mark shows that unclean spirits are professing that Jesus, a man, is the Son of God, AND WE ALL KNOW THAT SCRIPTURE CANNOT CONTRADICT SCRIPTURE, then there must be something missing.

We are not trying to DENY anything.
 
NotWorthy said:
No, we’re trying to get our hands around it.

If Scripture says that spirits “not of God” will not profess the incarnation of Jesus, and Mark shows that unclean spirits are professing that Jesus, a man, is the Son of God, AND WE ALL KNOW THAT SCRIPTURE CANNOT CONTRADICT SCRIPTURE, then there must be something missing.

We are not trying to DENY anything.
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I’ll try to clarify, but I am not aware of Mark speaking of unclean spirits… would you please enlighten. Thanks.
Blessings,
Simon
 
LilyM said:
Not rejecting the slightest bit of it - simply saying there is so much more to testing the spirits than that one line of scripture…
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Lily, my friend this is not just a random verse read the whole chapter or at least a couple paragraphs that talk warn and advise about testing spirits.
 
Mark, chapter 1:
23 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, 24 Saying: What have we to do with thee, Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know who thou art, the Holy One of God. 25 And Jesus threatened him, saying: Speak no more, and go out of the man.
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26 And the unclean spirit tearing him, and crying out with a loud voice, went out of him. 27 And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying: What thing is this? what is this new doctrine? for with power he commandeth even the unclean spirits, and they obey him
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Mark, chaper 3:
10 For he healed many, so that they pressed upon him for to touch him, as many as had evils.
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11 And the unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him: and they cried, saying: 12 Thou art the Son of God.
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Mark, chapter 5:
And as he went out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the monuments a man with an unclean spirit, 3 Who had his dwelling in the tombs, and no man now could bind him, not even with chains. 4 For having been often bound with fetters and chains, he had burst the chains, and broken the fetters in pieces, and no one could tame him. 5 And he was always day and night in the monuments and in the mountains, crying and cutting himself with stones.
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6 And seeing Jesus afar off, he ran and adored him. 7 And crying with a loud voice, he said: What have I to do with thee, Jesus the Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God that thou torment me not. 8 For he said unto him: Go out of the man, thou unclean spirit. 9 And he asked him: What is thy name? And he saith to him: My name is Legion, for we are many. 10 And he besought him much, that he would not drive him away out of the country
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So, even the unclean spirits speak not just ‘of God’, but ‘to God’ . . .thus, ‘contradicting’ the idea you proposed that
Scripture says that spirits “not of God” will not profess the incarnation of Jesus
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But Scripture does not contradict itself.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Mark, chapter 1:

Mark, chaper 3:

Mark, chapter 5:

So, even the unclean spirits speak not just ‘of God’, but ‘to God’ . . .thus, ‘contradicting’ the idea you proposed that

But Scripture does not contradict itself.
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Lets see the verse I quoted…
1 john 4:2-3
2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come
in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God.
This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

Know what you’ve quoted in Mark is in essence spirits of satan confronting** Christ**, of course they are going to make recognition to him cuz they realize he already knows.
That is quite different than John’s instruction to us, letting us know how to recognize.
Do you think Christ would need to know this verse, to find evil spirits? NO
We are not Christ we need instruction.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God.
This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
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Prayers from Fatima:

When you pray the Rosary, say after each mystery: O my Jesus, forgive us, save us from the fire of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those who are most in need.

Make sacrifices for sinners, and say often, especially while making a sacrifice: O Jesus, this is for love of Thee, for the conversion of sinners, and in reparation for offences committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

Clearly, the apparition at Fatima acknowledged Jesus. So, by your criteria this could not have been the anti-Christ.
 
I promised Jonathankinsman I would review the fact that I stated my original post was a fatima translation by Joseph cardinal Ratzinger, after further review, I realized JCR was the one whom did the Theological summary and not the translation… I apologized once for changing the word saving souls to salvation and Now I apologize for this if you guys look at the link I provided you will see how I was left with this impression…
But it behooves me in my position at CAF to be more thorough.
Please forgive me.
Truly, for Him
Simon
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Lets see the verse I quoted…
1 john 4:2-3
2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come
in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God.
This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

Know what you’ve quoted in Mark is in essence spirits of satan confronting** Christ**, of course they are going to make recognition to him cuz they realize he already knows.
That is quite different than John’s instruction to us, letting us know how to recognize.
Do you think Christ would need to know this verse, to find evil spirits? NO
We are not Christ we need instruction.
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But Simon, you’ve just admitted that they are ABLE to admit that Jesus is the Son of God. If they can do this to Jesus, the Son of God, why can’t they do this to us.

I have a feeling your parsing English diction into a Greek sentence. I’d love to get some Greek specialist to delve into that sentence.
 
NotWorthy said:
But Simon, you’ve just admitted that they are ABLE to admit that Jesus is the Son of God. If they can do this to Jesus, the Son of God, why can’t they do this to us.
.
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Spiritually they are looking into the face of even their creator, thats different than decifering the 2nd most powerful entity in creation trying to decieve humans, of course they will recognise and acknowledge their creator.Its not a fair comparison…
John, your smart… stop go back up a couple threads and reread this, it should not confuse you.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Spiritually they are looking into the face of even their creator, thats different than decifering the 2nd most powerful entity in creation trying to decieve humans, of course they will recognise and acknowledge their creator.Its not a fair comparison…
John, your smart… stop go back up a couple threads and reread this, it should not confuse you.
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I think there is more to this than you are aware of Simon.

In a talk given on this subject, Tim Gray claims that these demons are actually trying to possess and control Jesus. Stating someone’s real name is the first step in possessing them (according to exorcists). That’s why Jesus immediately demands that they shut up. Secondly, the terms that Jesus uses to shut them up are also ritualistic terms used in exorcisms, such as “I adjure thee”

The speaker notes that what Christians have taken for granted as demons cow-towing to Jesus (when they read the Gospels), was actually spiritual warfare of the most deadly kind.
 
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