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myfavoritmartin
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Yes and omnipotent which usually means all power and reserved for diety, such Father Son and Holy Ghost means blessed with grace…HMMMM but that is yet another thread.
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Missa_Solemnis
Guest
Any reference to Mary being omnipotent is a reference to her power to influence God’s decisions, who is in turn omnipotent.
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The_Augustinian
Guest
The Church has declared that Fatima is “worthy of belief” and thus it is most definitely not the work of Satan. One is free to believe or not believe in the vision, but he may not believe that it has a Satanic source. As I believe that the Church cannot misguide Christians in Faith or Morals, then I trust that Fatima, whether a vision of God or simply a hallucination, is not a work of Satan and does not lead people away from God per se.
Of course, some people can go overboard and put Fatima on the level of public revelation, but this is an issue of proper perspective, not the validity of the message itself. As for devotion to the Immaculate Heart, it must be understood in the context of worshiping God; worshiping the creation instead of the Creator is evil, but honoring the creation because of the Creator is praise-worthy. Devotion to Mary and the Saints should be understood in the second context.
Of course, some people can go overboard and put Fatima on the level of public revelation, but this is an issue of proper perspective, not the validity of the message itself. As for devotion to the Immaculate Heart, it must be understood in the context of worshiping God; worshiping the creation instead of the Creator is evil, but honoring the creation because of the Creator is praise-worthy. Devotion to Mary and the Saints should be understood in the second context.
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myfavoritmartin
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The comment Mother of God is worthy of a new thread also… It demands the explanation that Christ is God therefore Mary is the Mother of God, and once again approaching this in this manner attempts to remove Christs’ human nature in the verbage, not by the way you guys intend it but by the verbage… Once again another thread…
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The_Augustinian
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No woman can give birth to a spirit, so the terms “Mother of God” and “Theotokos” do not deny the human nature of Christ, but presuppose it.
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suburbanbanshee
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Anybody who’s been in a family knows that the mom is always all-powerful… 
Seriously, though, you’re confusing “all-powerful through influence on the Almighty” with “all-powerful because He IS the Almighty”. Most people have experiences of meeting some very holy person, or perhaps some very desperate one, who has gained great things through prayer. You could say their prayers and holiness are powerful, but of course they are only powerful because God is powerful, and He listens and grants their prayer.
The more we put on Christ and follow Him, the more inseparable we are from Christ in His Body. Mary is the end of such a process: she’s in Heaven, she knows and does God’s will perfectly, and she prays for everyone perfectly. That’s the end of the process of sanctification (or justification, or even apotheosis, depending on denomination and time of theological discussion). But pretty much the same thing is going to happen to everyone who gains eternal life in Christ, so don’t get too freaked out about it.
Seriously, though, you’re confusing “all-powerful through influence on the Almighty” with “all-powerful because He IS the Almighty”. Most people have experiences of meeting some very holy person, or perhaps some very desperate one, who has gained great things through prayer. You could say their prayers and holiness are powerful, but of course they are only powerful because God is powerful, and He listens and grants their prayer.
The more we put on Christ and follow Him, the more inseparable we are from Christ in His Body. Mary is the end of such a process: she’s in Heaven, she knows and does God’s will perfectly, and she prays for everyone perfectly. That’s the end of the process of sanctification (or justification, or even apotheosis, depending on denomination and time of theological discussion). But pretty much the same thing is going to happen to everyone who gains eternal life in Christ, so don’t get too freaked out about it.
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suburbanbanshee
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Um… why do we have to explain this “Mother of God” stuff? Everybody but Nestorians know it, and I don’t meet too many Nestorians these days. Even most historically Nestorian denominations have nuanced their theology to get back to orthodoxy on this topic.
Today’s heresies and misunderstandings are on toooootally different subjects.
Today’s heresies and misunderstandings are on toooootally different subjects.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
Scriptures says even men of Holy stature can be decieved. I will find this and present it to you in a little bit.
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myfavoritmartin
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Eve was (holy) without sin until the serpent decieved her.
13Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” And the woman said, “(A)The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
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Damascus
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Do any of you realize that the OP has a beef with Mary? Let it go. Dont feed the troll.
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water
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I wish I had been living in the US longer to understand “a beef with Mary”, but I could guess that you meant the OP came here not just “being curious” as he/she stated from the first post… and that I should not worry about replying to this thread?
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myfavoritmartin
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Knock it off! I’ve no issues with Mary, I think if you read through the thread you’ll see my thoughts on Mary… This is about blindly following something we are warned about in scripture.
But heh, nice of you to be so charitable and call me a troll… maybe you and mannyfit should hang out together.
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myfavoritmartin
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Actually I am curious but, save a small handful of you guys willing to share their honest opinion… none wish to answer because of the fear of thinking outside the “church”I wish I had been living in the US longer to understand “a beef with Mary”, but I could guess that you meant the OP came here not just “being curious” as he/she stated from the first post… and that I should not worry about replying to this thread?
There is NO alterior motive on this thread…
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myfavoritmartin
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see post 155 for example…
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Stephen_C
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As well Simon you too can be decieved.
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water
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I believe that we all are honest about our answers. When one person answered that he did not believe in Fatima [although He believe other things the Church teaches]. You only reponded to this person as honest.
We are not afraid of thinking outside of our Catholic belief. We answer with what we believe is true as you think you did with yours. But no, our answers did not satisfy you, and you said “only some of us” gave honest answers.
Let’s put it this way. If it is the work of Satan, you shall see its defeats. If it is the work of God, you shall see us in Heaven.
I hope to see you there!
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Damascus
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MFM-
I recall your stating Mary was the work of Satan—
Which you only “apologized” for after the forum rules were put before you.
How soon we forget…
Your apology was not that you called her that - it was if “anyone was offended by it”
Janet Jacksonish.
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myfavoritmartin
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True dat! thats why when I am taught, I do as the bereans and check it against scripture acts17:11 I pray it will make me more noble.
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Damascus
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MFM- its in John and Thessalonians- just to save you some time digging up holy scripture that now is all you go on.
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myfavoritmartin
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Water, my friend it isn’t about answering me, the point of this is to discuss… when I’m attacked I tend to point out the obvious, the people whom instead of answering chose to attack… I think all of you could learn from guys like mikeledes and notworthy… a couple guys whom are obviously strong in their faith and yet dont have to get defensive before answering.I believe that we all are honest about our answers. When one person answered that he did not believe in Fatima [although He believe other things the Church teaches]. You only reponded to this person as honest.
We are not afraid of thinking outside of our Catholic belief. We answer with what we believe is true as you think you did with yours. But no, our answers did not satisfy you, and you said “only some of us” gave honest answers.
Let’s put it this way. If it is the work of Satan, you shall see its defeats. If it is the work of God, you shall see us in Heaven.
Simon
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