Fatima, the work of satan?

[LilyM]

Manny are you sure? I see nothing that reinforces that Jesus is God in flesh.

She is the MOTHER of his flesh! She constantly calls him her son. Also Mother of God (since she told the children to pray the Rosary which addresses her as BOTH Mother of Jesus and Mother of God)

Mother of Jesus + Mother of God = Jesus is God. What do you want, a neon sign over her head or something?

 

[Kevin42]

Surely you are familiar with John!
**In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ** He was in the beginning with God. All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race; the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. A man named John was sent from God. He came for testimony, 6 to testify to the light, so that all might believe through him. He was not the light, but came to testify to the light. The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world came to be through him, but the world did not know him. He came to what was his own, but his own people 7 did not accept him. But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name, who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man's decision but of God. **And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father's only Son, full of grace and truth.**

 

[Damascus]

MFM- I told you to find your bible verses in John and Thess.

You have not found the bible verses that express testing things to hold what is good- (the holy spirit)

Are you referring to something else you need help finding in the bible?

Again, if you are using bible only as I mentioned earlier- and come here attacking anything Catholic, post your verses and your personal interpretations or loose your credibility for the honorable Protestants who can dump scripture like they dump a truck.

Put up or …

 

[Mannyfit75]

In addition, as a practicing Catholic, I don’t focus so much on the Fatima message. There are Catholics who I know who are so focus on it.

I have read the some documents concerning the apparition, and I don’t think the Church made an error in approving the Fatima Message.

Mary’s message made it clear that people today sin against God. She wishes them to be saved through prayers and sacrifices.

From the Fatima website it states;

The general Message of Fatima is not complicated. Its requests are for prayer, reparation, repentance, and sacrifice, and the abandonment of sin.

“Make of everything you can a sacrifice and offer it to God as an act of reparation for the sins by which He is offended, and in supplication, for the conversion of sinners.”

The Angel message to the Children.

Our Lady stressed the importance of praying the Rosary in each of Her apparitions, asking the children to pray the Rosary every day for peace. Another principal part of the Message of Fatima is devotion to Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart, which is terribly outraged and offended by the sins of humanity, and we are lovingly urged to console Her by making reparation. She showed Her Heart, surrounded by piercing thorns (which represented the sins against Her Immaculate Heart), to the children, who understood that their sacrifices could help to console

The children also saw that God is terribly offended by the sins of humanity, and that He desires each of us and all mankind to abandon sin and make reparation for their crimes through prayer and sacrifice. Our Lady sadly pleaded: “Do not offend the Lord our God any more, for He is already too much offended!”

She said that if people did not stop offending God, He would punish the world severely by means of war, famine, persecution of the Church, and persecution of the Holy Father. To prevent these chastisements, Our Lady offered a remedy: She would return to ask for the Consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart and the Communion (Eucharist) of Reparation on the Five First Saturdays. If Her requests were heeded, there would be peace. If not, Russia’s errors would spread throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions against the Church, the Holy Father to suffer much, martyrdom of the good and the annihilation of various nations.

If you can see. I highlighted Immaculate Heart and Communion. In Catholicism, Communion is the Eucharist and we believe that Jesus is truly Present. Jesus was not put out of the picture base on this message. I don’t see any contradiction of Scripture at all.

I don’t practice the request of Fatima. I just go by what the Catholic Church teaches. I have the freedom to accept the Fatima message or not. I choice not to part take in it, because my religious life is focused so much on Eucharistic Adoration, and trying to live a holy life by obeying the commandments of God.

 

[NotWorthy]

You know, if we can keep the insults to a minimum, it might not take so long to catch up to the thread!!!

What our friend martin is saying, is that the Apparition that claims to be Mary may be the work of Satan. He NEVER CLAIMED THAT MARY WAS THE WORK OF SATAN.

If we deal with this point, we can get a lot farther, a lot quicker! And remember,

“Where Charity and Love Prevail, Our God is ever found…”. Yes, I know its a sappy hymn, but it sure seems to fit.

 

[Damascus]

She is the MOTHER of his flesh! She constantly calls him her son. Also Mother of God (since she told the children to pray the Rosary which addresses her as BOTH Mother of Jesus and Mother of God)

Mother of Jesus + Mother of God = Jesus is God. What do you want, a neon sign over her head or something?

Its a lack of understanding the Trinity.

Theotokos.

They say they accept the Trinity. How? lets see what MFM comes up with, since it was the Catholic Church that made that one clear.
Scripture can be used to cite it implicitly. Not explicitly.

You need an authority to do this…

 

[Mannyfit75]

Manny are you sure? I see nothing that reinforces that Jesus is God in flesh.

I’m very sure. I posted a reply regarding what messages were put out. Like I said, I don’t have to believe in the Church approved apparition but I stand by the Church who approved the Fatima message.

 

[Damascus]

You missed the thread where he did just that. Worse yet-the cover up was that he covered by stating it was only an opinion…

Read the posts please. If you dont believe me- sift through his post history- you will find it. And my responses…

You know, if we can keep the insults to a minimum, it might not take so long to catch up to the thread!!!

What our friend martin is saying, is that the Apparition that claims to be Mary may be the work of Satan. He NEVER CLAIMED THAT MARY WAS THE WORK OF SATAN.

If we deal with this point, we can get a lot farther, a lot quicker! And remember,

“Where Charity and Love Prevail, Our God is ever found…”. Yes, I know its a sappy hymn, but it sure seems to fit.

 

[Damascus]

We also noticed that MFM has accepted possibly Mormon beliefs …

Now he is doubting Jesus as God in the flesh…

Wake up people! He is denying the Trinity.

MFM- this matter was taken care of very early in Church History. Are you that bored?

BTW- how is your scripture coming along???

Still waiting. (how many hours now)?

 

[Hesychios]

It’s incredible that this quagmire went to over 200 posts in 13 hours.

Any way no one, including Roman Catholics, is required to believe in the apparition, and they have the liberty of using any criteria to reach that conclusion. So it’s really a matter of personal opinion.

So to those who do not believe it is Mary that opens up a couple of possible ideas:

1. 
   *]It never happened, or
   *]It is not from divine power.
   Most Orthodox Catholics are not impressed by the western style talking apparitions. It’s not as if we can explain the phenomena, but if they truly do happen the source is not deemed trustworthy. Best left alone.
   
   Russian Orthodox find Fatima to be particularly offensive, for reasons that should appear obvious.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

It’s incredible that this quagmire went to over 200 posts in 13 hours.

Any way no one, including Roman Catholics, is required to believe in the apparition, and they have the liberty of using any criteria to reach that conclusion. So it’s really a matter of personal opinion.

So to those who do not believe it is Mary that opens up a couple of possible ideas:

1. 
   *]It never happened, or
   *]It is not from divine power.
   Most Orthodox Catholics are not impressed by the western style talking apparitions. It’s not as if we can explain the phenomena, but if they truly do happen the source is not deemed trustworthy. Best left alone.
   
   Russian Orthodox find Fatima to be particularly offensive, for reasons that should appear obvious.

1. 
   Marian apparitions are not limited to the Catholic Church. The Coptic Orthodox Church (which I may distinguish for the purpose of those not familiar with Eastern faiths is not part of the Eastern Orthodox Church) also has a history of apparitions in Egypt, so it’s unfair to say that it is a “western” phenomenon.

 

[Church_Militant]

ITo the best of my knowledge

"Fatima " did not confess Jesus Christ as comming in the flesh so I therefore assume "fatima "
is a deceiver and an antichrist.There’s your whole problem. You are seeking to discredit something that you have no actual knowledge of. get the facts from a reliable Catholic source before you offer Catholics an opinion.

You do not know and yet you make assumptions and offer opinions that detract from something holy.

Where is your honesty and integrity?

Is this the way that you come to your own beliefs? That’s dangerous…consider that you could already be decieved.
Pax tecum,

 

[Michael_Francis]

Maintain a high level of charity and knock off the personal sniping which (as someone rightly pointed out) add unnecessary posts to a good discussion thread.

I’ll be pruning this thread of some of this junk in a few minutes.
MF

 

[Hesychios]

Marian apparitions are not limited to the Catholic Church. The Coptic Orthodox Church (which I may distinguish for the purpose of those not familiar with Eastern faiths is not part of the Eastern Orthodox Church) also has a history of apparitions in Egypt, so it’s unfair to say that it is a “western” phenomenon.

I am unfamiliar with any Coptic apparitions that ‘speak’.

 

[tabcom]

“God wishes you to remain in the world for some time because He wants you to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart for the Heart of Jesus wants my Immaculate Heart to be venerated by His side.
I promise salvation to those who embrace it and their souls would be loved by God as the flowers placed by myself adorning His throne.”

When I read this type of stuff I can’t help but wonder how many of you think its Mary and how many the work of satan?

2nd corinthians talks of satan disguised as a beautiful angel.
Just curious…

**In an attempt to return to the OP, let’s examine the claim that Satan disguises himself as an angel of light:

II Cor. 11:

13
For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, who masquerade as apostles of Christ.
14
And no wonder, for even Satan masquerades as an angel of light.
15
So it is not strange that his ministers also masquerade as ministers of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

masquerades - (metaschematizo - disguised).

Satan does not appear with horns and a pitchfork. That disquise would decieve no one. **

get the facts from a reliable Catholic source before you offer Catholics an opinion.

**
With respects to the statement in quotations, could someone please validate that this is infact credited to Mary at Fatima?
**

 

[estesbob]

The reason stated above is precisely why I would question living by the promises/request as seen through the vision, ie praying to Mary’s immaculate heart.

I am curious-does not the entire Protesatnt Doctrine of “Sola Sciptura” hinge on private revelation? That is that anyone can pick up Scripture and the Spirit will reveal to them the truths contained therin?

 

[estesbob]

Is Fatima the work of Satan?
Their is a easy way to tell
I refer to 2John verse 7

“For many deceivers have gone into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as comming in the flesh.]This is a Deceiver and an Antichrist.”

To the best of my knowledge "Fatima " did not confess Jesus Christ as comming in the flesh so I therefore assume "fatima "
is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Could you explain exacltly how the verse you quoted above realates in any way shape or form to Fatima???

 

[tabcom]

I am curious-does not the entire Protesatnt Doctrine of “Sola Sciptura” hinge on private revelation? That is that anyone can pick up Scripture and the Spirit will reveal to them the truths contained therin?

**
II Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any “private” interpretation.

Prophecy here is the word propheteia which means “inspired” words as spoken by an inspired preacher who is called of God. The word “private” in this text is the word “idiotes” from which we get our word idiot. This word idiotes means “unlearned”. The word “idea” comes from the word idiotes. Man has his own “idea” or opinion when he redefines a word of scripture. Such a man is an “idiot” And he is unlearned.**

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Could you explain exacltly how the verse you quoted above realates in any way shape or form to Fatima???

Bob,
Read the link to vatican’s summary of fatima, no where in this vision does Christ come up; not as our salvation, not for anything… In fact it only speaks of saving souls by devotion to Her (Mary’s) immaculate heart… That is why this verse is very pertinent.

 

[Tom317]

Bob,
Read the link to vatican’s summary of fatima, no where in this vision does Christ come up; not as our salvation, not for anything… In fact it only speaks of saving souls by devotion to Her (Mary’s) immaculate heart… That is why this verse is very pertinent.

You are way out on a limb with this. The Vatican constantly and strongly professes the truths of Christ–and each and every day and each every minute the Church is professing the Gospel of Jesus Christ, more so then any other entity on earth, far more so.

When the Vatican speaks of abortion, it does not profess Christ then either, rather it makes a statement about the Church’s position regarding abortion. You need to take a breather with your anti-Catholic bias and start to realize that the Church has literally carried the truth of Christ across the globe. You would not have a Bible or any of the known truths of the faith if it were not for the Catholic Church…spreading the Gospel is the core mission of the Church, yet that does not mean every statement they make has to contain a profession of Christ.

Take a breath, breath in slowly and think before you respond to posts here and put your hatred down.