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Eireann
Guest
Agreed, although the goal posts do seem to get shifted every now and then.
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hoosierdaddy
Guest
Yes, I understand (Edited by Moderator). Mary being a co-redemptrix is nothing more than saying we need her for our salvation. Jesus accomplished our salvation ON THE CROSS, BY HIMSELF. Understand?I don’t understand the.
By “co-redemptrix” what it meant by this is that Mary, by consenting to be the Mother of Jesus, played a role in God’s plan for our redemption. I don’t see what is so horrifying by this.
But don’t take my word for it; here is an excerpt from the petition submitted to the Pope:
Understand?
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hoosierdaddy
Guest
**I understand. I didn’t check out the background of the site. I don’t have time to go into all that research when I’m addressing one point, I find something that addresses that one point. Someone said Mary was the co-redemptrix and I found something against that. How come we can’t use anti-Catholic sites but you guys can use anti-Protestant sites? I’m not stupid, there will never be a Catholic site that promotes the shortcomings of its own church. If there is I will be shocked. Of course I have to go to an anti-Catholic site.Loaded question that this whole site is about answering.That doesn’t make sense because Our Lord plainly stated that he and the Father were one. Brian, that’s an SDA anti-Catholic site and contains so little truth that it’s unworthy of you or any honest believer to use it as a source.
Heck, they even teach that Jesus and Michael the archangel are one and the same and have many times set a date for the return of the Lord.
Pax tecum,
Yes, it makes sense. The Bible talks over and over about “the Son”. “he who has the Son has life”, John 3:16 talking about he who believes in the Son has everlasting life, etc.
As for Jesus and Michael, is that the topic we’re discussing. Just so you know, Jesus and Michael are not one and the same and nobody can fix a date for Christ’s return. Scripture teaches us so.
**
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hoosierdaddy
Guest
**Of course I read my replies. I get a bit of a rush from reading what I say.
**(Edited by Moderator. Stick to facts…ALL of you!)
Noone here has a problem with Protestants? Then they just say all the nasty stuff for fun? When the Catholics get bored, the poop gets flowin’ and it lands on the Protestants huh?They say we’re going to hell (and I’ve read that and responded to it ON THIS SITE).
Of course it’s an anti-catholic website! I’m arguing AGAINST something that was said. Just so you know I never took it off topic…I responded to something that was said. How many anti-Protestant websites have you guys linked us to? If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Stop dishing it out if you can’t take it.
I am not falling back into any way. Don’t think you know me and can diagnose any of my “ways”. And yes, I’ll attack your words. I have already. (Edited by Moderator). No, most of us move onto other issues because we are bored with explaining ourselves over and over again. I am not convinced that Fatima was from God. It has no scriptural basis; the Bible doesn’t tell us there will be visions of Mary. Due to this fact, I am not obligated to BELIEVE it was Mary and God is perfectly fine with that. Good day.
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mdstanzel
Guest
Woops Guys. It’s a trap. Myfavoritmartin is trying to use the content of this thread to suggest that we, Catholics, and more over, that the Catholic Church, teaches that we worship Mary. Suggesting that Mary is the 4th person of God is Heretical teaching and anyone that teaches it would most definitely be excommunicated after being strongly warned.
Do some research on this guy and you’ll find “Preacher’s Files” type man wishing harm upon Christ’s Church. As I said once, let him leave and remain faithful to his own faith. God will sort us out in the end and I’m sure that if he is indeed sincere, he will repent on the Day of Judgment for having offended Him. I know his type, I’ve lived I a family of with elder, preachers and deacons legalistically trying to catch everyone in a trap to justify their positions no matter how they get things twisted up. This is a very vicious person trying to do evil and I will not have anything to do with this thread again. He is to be apposed. He is disingenuous and mean spirited individual gathering information to attack weak Catholics that do not understand the teachings of the Church. He means to harm the Church at any cost.
I will follow with scriptural references after I eat and calm down to show the difference between man’s tradition and the Sacred Tradition that Paul speaks of to holding fast to.
Do some research on this guy and you’ll find “Preacher’s Files” type man wishing harm upon Christ’s Church. As I said once, let him leave and remain faithful to his own faith. God will sort us out in the end and I’m sure that if he is indeed sincere, he will repent on the Day of Judgment for having offended Him. I know his type, I’ve lived I a family of with elder, preachers and deacons legalistically trying to catch everyone in a trap to justify their positions no matter how they get things twisted up. This is a very vicious person trying to do evil and I will not have anything to do with this thread again. He is to be apposed. He is disingenuous and mean spirited individual gathering information to attack weak Catholics that do not understand the teachings of the Church. He means to harm the Church at any cost.
I will follow with scriptural references after I eat and calm down to show the difference between man’s tradition and the Sacred Tradition that Paul speaks of to holding fast to.
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hoosierdaddy
Guest
Actually, I am the one who mentioned the “fourth person of the Trinity”. And I was being logical. I am not a Catholic so I am not concerned about what the Catholic Church would do to me.
(Edited by Moderator)
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water
Guest
true or not, we have nothing to be worried that we speak of the truth - that we are not worshiping Mary. It is important to have discussion such as this so that those who wrongly believe or were wrongly taught about Catholic understand better about Catholic.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
hmmmm…
This forum is called apologetics, it is an area that complete opposites like me can discuss and debate respectfully regarding my POV vs. the catholic POV. I am not disingenious, I am not mean spirited.
And YES I call all Christians to check what they are taught to scripture, so should you… That is scriptural.
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Church_Militant
Guest
Yet if you yourself followed your own premis you could not possibly accept your doctrine of Sola Scriptura.
You have no way to discern the veracity of the Fatima apparitions.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
discern the veracity?
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Church_Militant
Guest
Yeah…you are stuck basing all your opinions on your own interpretations of passages of the Bible.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
Church militant…
How did you realize the RCC was the true church?
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mdstanzel
Guest
I certainly know that this can be ironed out correctly by those that understand. But this seems more of an abuse of one of God’s gifts to us, reason.
We’ve pointed to reason, explained the logic, etc.
Let me put it this way. Father Corapi, my favorite Navy Seal says as does the Church that:
[SIGN]Majesterium, Tradition, Scripture[/SIGN]
Scripture without the Majesterium and Tradition is just another book. The Church of Christ will not argue with anyone that can not agree that the Bible is the inspired word of God. Therefore, likewise, we too need to point this fact out more clearly. Someone needs to take the time to explain the difference between Sacred Tradition (that does not change) and man’s tradition (constantly changing).
Accepting “solo scriptura”, a 16th century heresy, has led millions to idolotry by some. The Bible has become a modern idle. Here is an example of a song we used to sing:
cyberhymnal.org/htm/g/i/givemetb.htm
etc.
Words: Priscilla J. Ow*ens (1829-1907).
Music: Edmund S. Lorenz (1854-1942)
Shouldn’t we be concentrating on Jesus here instead of a collection of writings put together by the early church. This is what you’re arguing with.
Do you really know what you’re dealing with or is it simply typical Catholic pride that says I can handle it as we mutilate the Teachings of the Church? I’ve seen it so many times. You entered a world I once commanded militantly against Catholics. Engaging in an advanced topic like Fatima should be left up to theologians, not amateurs. And even then this is treacherous.
My father kept me drowning in the Fatima reparation. No one has adequately handled answering the questions about Fatima on this thread. You need a Catholic=>Protestant:denomination translator to accomplish this and that wouldn’t be enough. I would explain if I thought it was sincere, but I see what’s happening and keep grueling over the maliciousness of the thread that pretends to seek understanding. Scripture says much about this, but I don’t beat heads with bibles anymore. I retired from that several years ago as I saw the truth in its uncharitable contribution to spreading Gods’ word. Now my bible beating wife has seen the truth about what happens when you teach bible only doctrine.
Further, I do not believe that the Church would want us argue this way about something that we are not required to believe. I will add only one slight fact, the priest that investigated this did not believe it at all at first and what I remember he remained skeptical, but he was definitely challenged. Sometimes we refuse to believe and God lets us. He will not force us to believe something that was meant to be a message. I have personal experiences in my own life that I would not dare share with people because they’d think I was loopy. But that doesn’t change the facts that those experience happened.
My Catholic Seminarian mindset is coming back and I’m still begging God to help me understand the foolishness of walking down the Bible only path. But my wife needed me and God sent her to me. He answered my prayers 17 years ago as I turned to following another religious belief. He brought not only me back but the rest of my family. Praise God. I personally believe that my bishop father-in-law [campbellite] is in heaven because of desire. I believe that miracles happened that amazed my doubting wife who was convince through this experience that miracles do occur - even to us - like 3 little children.
My, I had a dream 2 nights ago that took off from where I fell asleep saying the rosary. In my dream, I saw the blessed mother and she helped me say the rosary. Did I have reparation? In my opinion, no. I do not want that kind of attention. But God has answered many really BIG prayers in really BIG ways. I attribute it to 4 hours per day of praying the Rosary, studying scripture, meditating on Jesus Crucified, daily adoration (only one & a teen) and daily mass (when available). God has carved me in the palm of His hand. Had my wife not seen it for herself, I don’t think that she’d believe me. And because of this, we’re “coming home”. Me Catholic and 4 new additions to Christ’s Church, the holy catholic and apostolic church.
I’ve started a blog and I plan to include church bulletins to show some of the evidences that led to our journey home.
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mcs7474
Guest
After 800 posts does he really think we are worshipping mary? You can call it what you want, but its not worship, its not even close. You can think the sky is green with dancing frogs in it but that doesnt make it true. Im not trying to be uncharitable here, and I know i am coming off that way so ill apoligize. But this whole topic makes me sick, such disrespect for our lady, and more over her most wonderful Son. The biggest work of satan in that last few hundred years in my opinion was the invent of protestantism, how sad. and God bless all those who believe in it, that their eyes may be opened.
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Church_Militant
Guest
Study man study. I challenged everything I heard about the Catholic faith and all that turned out to be rubbish. I went looking into Catholic teaching to see if what I was hearing was true and found it all to be untrue and not only that but I found that there is more than ample reason to follow the Catholic faith than any of the other churches.
I didn’t go out to prove or disprove anything, I just went in search of the facts and the facts led me to realize that the Catholic faith is the original, New Testament, “full Gospel” church that Christ founded. Every other church has a man as it’s founder, no matter what they may claim, and every single one of them has at least one doctrinal divergence from what the New Testament teaches as well as what the early church believed and practiced.
I feel that I was misled and decieved by well intentioned people with Bibles.
I was one of the most no fear “witnesses” you could ever encounter. I was never rude, but I ain’t scared of the devil himself nor any of his minions.
Now I apply all those “witnessing” skills and the other gifts that God has blessed me with to share my Catholic faith with anyone who will listen, and to counter the propaganda of anti-Catholics who seek to decieve my Catholic brothers and sisters into leaving the faith for their “Christianity Lite”.
If you’ve debated or discussed with me for any length of time around here you already know that I won’t insult you, but I’ll rip rhetoric and propaganda apart without mercy.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
How long will it take for us Catholics to convince the Non-Catholic Christians, that we do not worship Mary, and we do not give her a status higher than Jesus. Will it take 1,000 posts? Only if they open their eyes, and read what we wrote down.
I have seen many Catholics here keep repeating the same answers to Anti-Catholic remarks concerning Fatima and Mary. Yet, they insist that we are erroneous. My faith is not shaken, but it is challenged. Their arguments will not convince me. I have seen the errors of the doctrine of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fidelis.- Nuff said.
I have seen many Catholics here keep repeating the same answers to Anti-Catholic remarks concerning Fatima and Mary. Yet, they insist that we are erroneous. My faith is not shaken, but it is challenged. Their arguments will not convince me. I have seen the errors of the doctrine of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fidelis.- Nuff said.
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Eireann
Guest
Well it don’t take the brains of an Arch-bishop to understand the message of Fatima, repentance !
The Apparition was to 3 young children, not to theologians, if you look at some of the Apparitions throughout history they were to the most illiterate.
Theologians have looked into it, just type Fatima on the Vatican website and you’ll get enough info to keep you busy for awhile.
We were asked a question, we responded, although the the thread has been side-tracked in an attempt to trap us, we haven’t been.
So I wish it would go back to the original first post, and it was pointed out many posts ago that even the wording on it was wrong, and allegations made.
After 800 + posts for me there is nothing more to say, my role here is purely defensive, I’m fed up discussing Fatima.
Why doesn’t anyone that has a problem with it, go and ask the Seer Lucia herself.
She went to all that bother to write a book, “Calls from the message of Fatima” the least we can do is read it.
Matt:11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said: I confess to thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them to the little ones
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dranzal
Guest
Ahh…If 1000 posts is what it will take, that means we are close!!!
Only a couple hundred more posts and they will be Catholic! :clapping:
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MrS
Guest
what do you think purgation means??I don’t think it’s a matter of us misunderstanding it.
As for purgatory, even if it does exist, there is nobody suffering there as it is not a place of punishment as per Catholic doctrine (or at least what I’ve heard on here).
Purgatory is the gift of God’s Mercy to let us pay the temporal punishment for our sins.
Afterall, “…nothing unclean shall enter the gates of heaven…” and I don’t know about you… but I am imperfect. Even if I were to die this minute in the state of grace, I still have “attatchments” to things of this world. They are not acceptable in heaven.
As Fr. Groeschel has said… purgatory is the “final rinse” beore we enter eternity in heaven.
Thank God for His Mercy.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
Awesome story!Study man study. I challenged everything I heard about the Catholic faith and all that turned out to be rubbish. I went looking into Catholic teaching to see if what I was hearing was true and found it all to be untrue and not only that but I found that there is more than ample reason to follow the Catholic faith than any of the other churches.
I didn’t go out to prove or disprove anything, I just went in search of the facts and the facts led me to realize that the Catholic faith is the original, New Testament, “full Gospel” church that Christ founded. Every other church has a man as it’s founder, no matter what they may claim, and every single one of them has at least one doctrinal divergence from what the New Testament teaches as well as what the early church believed and practiced.
I feel that I was misled and decieved by well intentioned people with Bibles.
I was one of the most no fear “witnesses” you could ever encounter. I was never rude, but I ain’t scared of the devil himself nor any of his minions.
Now I apply all those “witnessing” skills and the other gifts that God has blessed me with to share my Catholic faith with anyone who will listen, and to counter the propaganda of anti-Catholics who seek to decieve my Catholic brothers and sisters into leaving the faith for their “Christianity Lite”.
If you’ve debated or discussed with me for any length of time around here you already know that I won’t insult you, but I’ll rip rhetoric and propaganda apart without mercy.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
But as I read it I can not but help see that there was a great amount of personal interpretation on your part.
Advice, “stop with the personal interpretation bit”!
- Status