Fatima, the work of satan?

[NotWorthy]

But pray you weren’t at one of those seven churches listed in Revelation!

Just a minor point…

Since seven is the number that represents wholeness, many scholars feel that the seven letters to the seven churches are actually addressed to the whole church.

And, of course as Simon rightly pointed out, they address problems in churches even today.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

After 800 posts does he really think we are worshipping mary? You can call it what you want, but its not worship, its not even close. You can think the sky is green with dancing frogs in it but that doesnt make it true. Im not trying to be uncharitable here, and I know i am coming off that way so ill apoligize. But this whole topic makes me sick, such disrespect for our lady, and more over her most wonderful Son. The biggest work of satan in that last few hundred years in my opinion was the invent of protestantism, how sad. and God bless all those who believe in it, that their eyes may be opened.

I would say proponents of fatima disrespect our Lord and Saviour! but that is my opinion.

 

[MrS]

Actually, I am the one who mentioned the “fourth person of the Trinity”. And I was being logical. I am not a Catholic so I am not concerned about what the Catholic Church would do to me.

(Edited by Moderator)

Perhaps you should be… in eternity everyone will be a Catholic.

.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Perhaps you should be… in eternity everyone will be a Catholic.

Nope. Everyone will be a Protestant. Our focus will be on Jesus Alone.

In all seriousness though, everyone will be glorified humans/saints. They won’t be Catholic, Protestant or even Christians.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

BEARS REPEATING!

When I was be grilled about using personal interpretation from my friend CM, I asked how he decided on the CC…

his response…

Study man study. I challenged everything I heard about the Catholic faith and all that turned out to be rubbish. I went looking into Catholic teaching to see if what I was hearing was true and found it all to be untrue and not only that but I found that there is more than ample reason to follow the Catholic faith than any of the other churches.

I didn’t go out to prove or disprove anything, I just went in search of the facts and the facts led me to realize that the Catholic faith is the original, New Testament, “full Gospel” church that Christ founded. Every other church has a man as it’s founder, no matter what they may claim, and every single one of them has at least one doctrinal divergence from what the New Testament teaches as well as what the early church believed and practiced.

I feel that I was misled and decieved by well intentioned people with Bibles.

I was one of the most no fear “witnesses” you could ever encounter. I was never rude, but I ain’t scared of the devil himself nor any of his minions
.

Now I apply all those “witnessing” skills and the other gifts that God has blessed me with to share my Catholic faith with anyone who will listen, and to counter the propaganda of anti-Catholics who seek to decieve my Catholic brothers and sisters into leaving the faith for their “Christianity Lite”.

If you’ve debated or discussed with me for any length of time around here you already know that I won’t insult you, but I’ll rip rhetoric and propaganda apart without mercy.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

Awesome story!
But as I read it I can not but help see that there was a great amount of personal interpretation on your part.

Advice, “stop with the personal interpretation bit”!

 

[myfavoritmartin]

true or not, we have nothing to be worried that we speak of the truth - that we are not worshiping Mary. It is important to have discussion such as this so that those who wrongly believe or were wrongly taught about Catholic understand better about Catholic.

Right on! my friend!

 

[Axion]

Again we see the sectarians attacking Marian Apparitions.
Since to admit these are from God would blow away their whole theology, they have to say “They are from the devil.”
Do you not know that this was precisely the charge that the pharisees made against Jesus - that His healing power came from the devil?

Jesus says this:
Mark3 25-26 "If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come."
In all the approved Marian appearances She calls for prayer and repentance, and for people to follow Jesus. As Jesus teaches, Satan cannot do this.

How else are we told in the Bible to discern whether things are of God or not?
1 Cor 12.3: You know when you were pagans somehow or other you were influenced by and led astray to mute idols. Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says “Jesus be cursed”. and no one can say Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit."

At Guadeloupe Mary proclaimed Her Son, Jesus, as Lord. At Fatima, She gave the Children a new prayer: ** “Oh my Jesus, forgive us, save us from the fire of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those who are most in need.”**

The Apparitions of Mary proclaim Jesus as Lord, they urge repentance, obedience to God, and prayer.

The teachings, messages, and also the fruits of the approved Marian Apparitions have been overwhelmingly for good, for healing, spiritual growth and the increase of Faith.

The simple fact is that throughout history God has sent messages to men, and many times men have not liked those messages because they disagreed with their preferred philosophies, and drove the messengers away.
*Matthew 23:37. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often have i wanted to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
But when God sends messages and performs miracles to validate them, He is NOT pleased when those messages are ignored.
Matthew 11.21 "Woe to you, Chora’zin! woe to you, Beth-sa’ida! for if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I tell you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. 23 And you, Caper’na-um, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24 But I tell you that it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you."

So using the scriptural reference for discernment, we prove that these apparitions of Mary cannot be from Satan. They must therefore be of God.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

BEARS REPEATING!

When I was be grilled about using personal interpretation from my friend CM, I asked how he decided on the CC…

his response…

Awesome story!
But as I read it I can not but help see that there was a great amount of personal interpretation on your part.

Advice, “stop with the personal interpretation bit”!

Simon;
Church Militant did not state anything about scripture (your stalking horse) which in any way could have been seen as

“personal interpretation on your part.”

However, I will use this phrase of yours whenever any argument comes up a la Sola Scriptura that can not be backed by scripture.

Good advice, Simon. Let’s see how long it lasts.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Simon;
Church Militant did not state anything about scripture (your stalking horse) which in any way could have been seen as

“personal interpretation on your part.”

However, I will use this phrase of yours whenever any argument comes up a la Sola Scriptura that can not be backed by scripture.

Good advice, Simon. Let’s see how long it lasts.

Nope, he didn’t say anything about scripture… But he did prove it took personal interpretation when deciding on the CC.


Really Jon tell me how one is different from the other?

 

[hoosierdaddy]

So using the scriptural reference for discernment, we prove that these apparitions of Mary cannot be from Satan. They must therefore be of God.

Except Scripture never tells us that there will be visions of Mary.

Scripture never tells us to submit to any “visions of Mary”.

Scripture does tell us that the devil appears as an angel of light…

 

[MrS]

Nope. Everyone will be a Protestant. Our focus will be on Jesus Alone.

In all seriousness though, everyone will be glorified humans/saints. They won’t be Catholic, Protestant or even Christians.

Actually they will …

When we die, and when we see the beatific vision (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), we we be brought into the fullness of the Truth. There is only one Truth

At that time you will understand the Lord’s wish for One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism.

The fullness of the Truth will also fully bring you into the only Church Founded by Jesus (hint… it won’t be any of the Protestant breakaways, or the non-Christian entities).

Hence all in Heaven will be Catholic.

The flip side of the coin is also true.

At death, one will see the Beatific Vision etc. And for whatever reason that they rejected the fullness of the Truth on earth (unrepentant mortal sins against God), they will be damned for eternity. But first they will also see and understand One Lord, One Faith, one Baptism… and be Catholic.

In eternity, all will be part of One Faith… and it is Catholic.

IMHO, Protestants don’t focus on Jesus as much as they do on Paul. And for the most part, they screw that up pretty bad. If you really focused on Jesus, you would totally accept His 4-time repeated gift of the Eucharist in John 6. Many rejected it before, and walked away… their free choice, and Jesus let them of course.

The Eucharist, Jesus Himself, is the source and summit of the Faith. Protestants don’t have it… and non-denoms certainly don’t.

.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

Study man study. I challenged everything I heard about the Catholic faith and all that turned out to be rubbish. I went looking into Catholic teaching to see if what I was hearing was true and found it all to be untrue and not only that but I found that there is more than ample reason to follow the Catholic faith than any of the other churches.

I didn’t go out to prove or disprove anything, I just went in search of the facts and the facts led me to realize that the Catholic faith is the original, New Testament, “full Gospel” church that Christ founded. Every other church has a man as it’s founder, no matter what they may claim, and every single one of them has at least one doctrinal divergence from what the New Testament teaches as well as what the early church believed and practiced.

I feel that I was misled and decieved by well intentioned people with Bibles.

I was one of the most no fear “witnesses” you could ever encounter. I was never rude, but I ain’t scared of the devil himself nor any of his minions.

Now I apply all those “witnessing” skills and the other gifts that God has blessed me with to share my Catholic faith with anyone who will listen, and to counter the propaganda of anti-Catholics who seek to decieve my Catholic brothers and sisters into leaving the faith for their “Christianity Lite”.

If you’ve debated or discussed with me for any length of time around here you already know that I won’t insult you, but I’ll rip rhetoric and propaganda apart without mercy.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

Simon:

Here is the full quotation. Where is the “personal interpretation of scripture?”

Heck, where is the scripture?

I see assertions, statements relating how he went from Protestant to Catholic.

If you inquire of him specifically about what scriptures, I am sure that is where the discussion may begin.

However, your statement that** “he did prove it took personal interpretation when deciding on the CC” is NOT in his posting.**

You may have INTERPRETED something not there, Simon.

 

[Eireann]

I would say proponents of fatima **disrespect our Lord **and Saviour! but that is my opinion.

Really ?

**“My God, I believe, I adore, and I love You! **I beg pardon of You for those who do not believe, do not adore, do not hope and do not love You!”

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Really ?

**“My God, I believe, I adore, and I love You! **I beg pardon of You for those who do not believe, do not adore, do not hope and do not love You!”

Sorry, yes. ,
I hope you are not ensinuating that I do not love adore and hope in my God.
I love and adore him with my whole heart!

 

[Eireann]

Sorry, yes. ,
I hope you are not ensinuating that I do not love adore and hope in my God.
I love and adore him with my whole heart!

That’s ok, well after so many threads your bound to know that’s the prayer the Angel recommended to the children, it’s not my composition.

 

[Church_Militant]

BEARS REPEATING!

When I was be grilled about using personal interpretation from my friend CM, I asked how he decided on the CC…

his response…

Awesome story!
But as I read it I can not but help see that there was a great amount of personal interpretation on your part.

Advice, “stop with the personal interpretation bit”!

I beg to differ…I found is the key phrase there.

I found that the modern n-Cs do not hold the same beliefs that the early church did and that they are in fact the ones who are guilty of “a great amount of personal interpretation”.

I bowed to the preponderance of factual evidence from the Word of God and from the early church, who are far closer to the source than any modern day preacher or teacher.

You actually have attempted to twist what I wrote.
Enlightening.

myfavoritmartin:

How about this…
I went looking into Catholic teaching to see if what I was hearing was true and found it all to be

untrue and not only that but I found that there is more than ample reason to follow the Catholic faith than any of the other churches.

And found it all to be untrue.

Sounds interpretive to me.Your own comments are “interpretive”.

Truth is not interpretive. It is absolute.

The ascertainment of facts is objective.

Hence I reject n-C theology.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

I beg to differ…I found is the key phrase there.

I found that the modern n-Cs do not hold the same beliefs that the early church did and that they are in fact the ones who are guilty of “a great amount of personal interpretation”.

I bowed to the preponderance of factual evidence from the Word of God and from the early church, who are far closer to the source than any modern day preacher or teacher.

You actually have attempted to twist what I wrote.
Enlightening.

CM,
So you did not use any personal interpretation to determine the CC was right for you?

CM,
So you did not use any personal interpretation to determine the CC was right for you?

How about this…
I went looking into Catholic teaching to see if what I was hearing was true and found it all to be untrue and not only that but I found that there is more than ample reason to follow the Catholic faith than any of the other churches.

And found it all to be untrue.

Sounds interpretive to me.

 

[Church_Militant]

Nope sure didn’t…

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Nope sure didn’t…

Okay… You just mystically joined!

 

[KathleenElsie]

The Rosary is a wonderful way to pray to God with my Heavenly Mother Mary at my side.

The Apostles Creed, Our Father, the Glory Be, The Fatima Prayer (Oh My Jesus) it is like having a mini prayer book that is always with me.

Hail Mary and Hail Holy Queen both are scriptural.

Each of the Mysteries is like having a mini New Testament.

The Annunciation- Luke 1:26-38
The Visitation- Luke 1:39-56
The Nativity- Luke 2:1-21
The Presentation-Luke 2:22-38
The Finding of the Child Jesus in the Temple-Luke 2:41-52
The Baptism in the River Jordan- Matthew 3:13-16
The Wedding Feast in Cana- John 2:1-11
The preaching of the coming of the Kingdom of God- Mark 1:14-15
The Transfiguration- Matthew 17:1-8
The Institution of the Holy Eucharist- Matthew 26
The Agony of Jesus in the Garden- Matthew 26:36-56
The Scourging at the Pillar- Matthew 27:26
The Crowning of the Thorns- Matthew 27:27-31
The Carrying of the Cross- Matthew 27:32
The Crucifixion- Matthew:33-56
The Resurrection- John 20:1-29
The Ascension- Luke 24:36-53
The Descent of the Holy Spirit- Acts 2:1-41
The Assumption of Mary, the Mother of God, into heaven
The Coronation of Mary in Heaven

The Rosary is Christocentric - it focuses on Christ and is more than a Marian devotion.