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hoosierdaddy
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**And how do you know that? Where in the Bible does it say: all apparitions that look like Mary and that tell you to pray like this: “O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell, lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy” are from the Devil? Where?
Oh, right. In the same place that it says “sola Scriptura.” Silly me.**
Why would God have visions of Mary “preaching” to people who do not listen to the preaching of the Word of God??? It reminds me of the rich man parable, how he wanted his family to be told of hell and the Lord said they have the Prophets, etc. If they will not believe them, they will not believe even if a man were to rise from the dead. Likewise, if people aren’t going to believe the preaching of the Word or by reading the Word, they are not going to believe by seeing a “vision of Mary”. But what do I know? I haven’t gone to the Pope for my beliefs.
Oh, right. In the same place that it says “sola Scriptura.” Silly me.**
Why would God have visions of Mary “preaching” to people who do not listen to the preaching of the Word of God??? It reminds me of the rich man parable, how he wanted his family to be told of hell and the Lord said they have the Prophets, etc. If they will not believe them, they will not believe even if a man were to rise from the dead. Likewise, if people aren’t going to believe the preaching of the Word or by reading the Word, they are not going to believe by seeing a “vision of Mary”. But what do I know? I haven’t gone to the Pope for my beliefs.
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hoosierdaddy
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I’d say us “fundies” (what shall I call you?) are standing on the rock and are not swayed and we listen to God in His Holy Word. Where is John 6:6:6? Oh I know…it must be one of those “extra” (read uninspired) books of the “Bible”.
You’d like us to leave, I know, but God has promised to preserve us and to seal us with His Holy Spirit and to baptize us into His Body (the Church). I’d be really hurt if you wanted me to leave.
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MarkInOregon
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hoosierdaddy
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francesco920
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It seems like you do not understand. Let me repeat again.
By co-redemptrix what is meant is that Mary played a role in our salvation by consenting to being the Mother of Jesus. Obviously God did not need Mary, but he chose her, and therefore she IS a part of God’s plan, and all of God’s plan must be honored.
Stop trying to put words in our mouths. No Catholic is claiming that Mary saves us. Only God can do that. Let me repeat. ONLY GOD CAN SAVE US. What we are saying is that God gave Mary the opportunity to participate in His plan for our salvation, and she consented; therefore she played a part in our salvation because a part was offered to her by God. God can do that, you know, because He can do anything.
Let me also state again that Catholics don’t have to believe Mary is the co-redemptrix. However, saying that Catholics who believe Mary is the co-redemptrix believe they need her for their salvation is a lie and you know it.
Pax Christi
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MrS
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nope…:nope: :nope::nope:
I agree that nothing was lacking in the sufferings or in the merits of Christ. He alone allowed for a sufficient redemption of mankind. He alone appeased the Father. That is why St Paul, the Catholic Apostle adds: “…for His body, which is the Church…” that the sufferings were wanting and are to be endured by the example of Christ by the faithful, who are members of the body which has the Crucified Christ as the Head.
Christ loves us so much that He is not content to suffer (love) in his own person… he wishes to suffer (love) in his members… thus we fill up what is lacking or wanting in the sufferings of Christ.
Afterall, we are baptised into His Life… and into His Death.
But… at least you responded as best you could.
(sarcasm on)
My response comes from the authority of the Church… so it has more credibility than private interpretation… but then you knew that cuz it is in scripture.
(sarcasm off)
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myfavoritmartin
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Exactly…
He suffered for the redemption of the church; we suffer on other accounts;
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hoosierdaddy
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Co-redemptrix…another word for “Jesus’ partner” in our salvation. Look, not even Protestants deny her part in God’s plan. That does not, however, make her a co-redemptrix. She was not one in the least. Yes, only God can save us and He had to save Mary to…as she was a sinner just like us.
I didn’t lie, I only went to the logical conclusion of what you guys say. However, what are your excuses for the lies some of you say about Protestants?
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MrS
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do you know ANYTHING about the Rock… the one at Caesare Phillipi… the one with the well spring of water… the one with the temple to Pan… the backdrop chosen by the Lord to be replaced with a lowly fisherman named Simon, who would be renamed and directed on a special mission…I’d say us “fundies” (what shall I call you?) are standing on the rock and are not swayed and we listen to God in His Holy Word. Where is John 6:6:6? Oh I know…it must be one of those “extra” (read uninspired) books of the “Bible”.
You’d like us to leave, I know, but God has promised to preserve us and to seal us with His Holy Spirit and to baptize us into His Body (the Church). I’d be really hurt if you wanted me to leave.
oh well… forget it… you can’t understand these things “because they are not in your copy of the Catholic Bible”
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Mannyfit75
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[/QUOTE]I’d say us “fundies” (what shall I call you?) are standing on the rock and are not swayed and we listen to God in His Holy Word. Where is John 6:6:6? Oh I know…it must be one of those “extra” (read uninspired) books of the “Bible”.
Call it uninspired but I believe you do have the Gospel of John.
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newbie1234
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By that rationale, is Joseph also a co-redeemer because although he wasn’t the biological father, he did raise and care for Jesus and was a part in bringing Him to us.
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myfavoritmartin
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Besides those whom left, I am sure he let them leave because he already knew they did not ever believe, us fundies we are true born again believers!I’d say us “fundies” (what shall I call you?) are standing on the rock and are not swayed and we listen to God in His Holy Word. Where is John 6:6:6? Oh I know…it must be one of those “extra” (read uninspired) books of the “Bible”.
You’d like us to leave, I know, but God has promised to preserve us and to seal us with His Holy Spirit and to baptize us into His Body (the Church). I’d be really hurt if you wanted me to leave.
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MrS
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as usual, you avoid the answer.What does “it is finished” mean to you? I’m surprised to see a Catholic asking me what “something means to me”.
I will give you a hint… “it is finished” does NOT mean His work of redemption…:bigyikes:
Jesus still had to rise on Easter Morning for that to happen…
tag, you’re it smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/F/0/148p.gifimgfarm.com/images/smileycentral/imbuddy/hear_me_talk.gif
%between%
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Mannyfit75
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In Christ we are no longer dead in sin but alive in Christ. We are alive in Christ even after death.
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Mickey
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Dialogue on this forum can sometimes be productive and always challenging. But continual use of snide remarks and sarcasm does not benefit anyone. This goes for Catholic and non-Catholic alike. Let us think before we write–charitable discussion is important.
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francesco920
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First off co-redemptrix does not equal co-redeemer. See my first post concerning this.
And, no, that would not be true. Jesus’ human nature came from Mary. Joseph was a caretaker, but he didn’t play a direct part.
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MrS
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I suppose that answer could be more vague…NOT
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