Fatima

[judechild]

The title pretty much says it all.

After reading The Last Secret of Fatima by Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, I’ve come to believe that the events in Fatima are more than just “worthy of belief”. I’m interested, though, in what others think, so that is the subject of this thread. What do you believe happened, or did not happen, in Fatima, Portugal in the year 1917?

Btw, I’m sick of reading page after page of snappish, agitated posts. If you post on this thread, please do so with respect and dignity so that we can have a true theological/historical discussion here. This is not to be a playground for bickering. I won’t hesitate to report any blatant disrespect; just be aware of that.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

The title pretty much says it all.

After reading The Last Secret of Fatima by Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, I’ve come to believe that the events in Fatima are more than just “worthy of belief”.

Can you explain what you mean by this.

It is a Church teaching that public revelation is closed and no private revelation can add to it so no private revelation is binding upon faithful Catholics.

 

[RyanML]

The title pretty much says it all.

After reading The Last Secret of Fatima by Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, I’ve come to believe that the events in Fatima are more than just “worthy of belief”. I’m interested, though, in what others think, so that is the subject of this thread. What do you believe happened, or did not happen, in Fatima, Portugal in the year 1917?

Btw, I’m sick of reading page after page of snappish, agitated posts. If you post on this thread, please do so with respect and dignity so that we can have a true theological/historical discussion here. This is not to be a playground for bickering. I won’t hesitate to report any blatant disrespect; just be aware of that.

I believe that the Blessed Mother appeared in Fatima and I believe that her message of conversion, prayer, and sacrifice are necessary elements in the Christian life. I do get a bit uncomfortable with certain groups that seem to base their entire spirituality around a private revelation. Our Lady did not come to Fatima to begin a movement or found a new spirituality. She came, as she always does, to call us back to a zealous living out of the Gospel. If we are doing that, then we are being faithful sons and daughters of our heavenly Mother.

 

[Mattapoisett64]

The title pretty much says it all.

After reading The Last Secret of Fatima by Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, I’ve come to believe that the events in Fatima are more than just “worthy of belief”. I’m interested, though, in what others think, so that is the subject of this thread. What do you believe happened, or did not happen, in Fatima, Portugal in the year 1917?

Btw, I’m sick of reading page after page of snappish, agitated posts. If you post on this thread, please do so with respect and dignity so that we can have a true theological/historical discussion here. **This is not to be a playground for bickering. I won’t hesitate to report any blatant disrespect; just be aware of that./**QUOTE]

I would also suggest that this is not a “playground” for finger-wagging threats, or beginning a discusion with language more appropriate for a moderator either. And if you’d like to report me for that comment, have a blast.

 

[JustaServant]

Fatima is a visit by Our Heavenly Mother Mary in our time for our time. It is a Message of concern, a practical plan for world peace, a promise of Heaven.
It is Heaven’s interventions to save us from persecution, martyrdom, war, enslavement or annihilation. Above all it’s a way to save our souls from hell.
She came with a message from God to every man, woman and child of our century. Our Lady of Fatima promised that the whole world would be in peace, and that many souls would go to Heaven if Her requests were listened to and obeyed.
She told us that war is a punishment for sin; that God would punish the world for its sins in our time by means of war, hunger, persecution of the Church and persecution of the Holy Father, the Pope, unless we listened to and obeyed the commands of God.
In order to prevent these chastisements from befalling us She told us that special Reparation for sins committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary was necessary, particularly the Communions of Reparation on the First Saturday of five consecutive months and the public and solemn Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary by all the Catholic Bishops of the world, together with the Pope on the same day at the same hour.

Now, whether or not that consecration has taken place exactly as prescribed, and whether we recieved the entire third secret, has been a topic for debate.
I am one of those who agree with Mother Angelica on Fatima, I do not believe we recieved the entire message, Why? I have no clue. My research into Fatima very clearly shows that Russia’s errors are still being spread throughout the world. It’s not my place to decide whether or not the Consecration in 1984 was done properly. As our illustrious leader states, that’s ‘above my pay grade’.
However, I do believe it is important to avoid speculation and conspiracies. Avoid those who cause division.
Our Lady only had one message for us: Pray the Rosary.

 

[praise_Jesus_1]

I believe the events of Fatima took place as well. I’m hoping to get a chance sometime to see the movie the 13th day, or something like that which is about the events at Fatima.

As for the theories surrounding the third secret and the consecration of Russia, etc. I don’t really hold an opinion strongly one way or the other. For myself there would only be angst in my heart if I worried about these issues.

Again for myself I find Fatima powerful because the messages really conveyed an urgency for us to lead holy lives and to turn to Christ. It’s a reminder to not be lukewarm, and to strive for God’s will in all things. It’s so easy to label our loving God as one who would not punish us for sins we consider unimportant. But I myself am reminded that we must not compromise. The visionaries vision of Hell sounds so frightening, and again a reminder to myself that God must come first.

 

[aicirt]

The title pretty much says it all.

After reading The Last Secret of Fatima by Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, I’ve come to believe that the events in Fatima are more than just “worthy of belief”. I’m interested, though, in what others think, so that is the subject of this thread. What do you believe happened, or did not happen, in Fatima, Portugal in the year 1917?

Btw, I’m sick of reading page after page of snappish, agitated posts. If you post on this thread, please do so with respect and dignity so that we can have a true theological/historical discussion here. This is not to be a playground for bickering. I won’t hesitate to report any blatant disrespect; just be aware of that.

I believed it happened. Hard to refute the Miracle of the Sun. When I was a kid, the nuns had us say the rosary and there was Monday Novena for the BVM’s intentions. Also we were told that the third secret would be revealed in 1960. Big disappointment when it wasn’t revealed. Now we’re told that part is still kept a secret. And you don’t hear about Novenas anymore.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Now we’re told that part is still kept a secret. And you don’t hear about Novenas anymore.

---

The third secret was revealed several years ago during the lifetime of beloved John Paul the Great.

A lot of people who would rather believe gloom, doom, and rumors of boom instead of what the Church says don’t want to accept it.

 

[I_Believe]

The new movie looks like a good one… the13thday.com/the-film/trailers/

 

[I_Believe]

The Fatima Children Are Shown Hell

In 1917, during World War I and that “hell on earth,” the Virgin Mary appeared to three children at Fatima, Portugal, on the 13th of the month from May through October. During her appearance on July 13th, 1917, she showed these three young children, ages 7 to 10, a vision of Hell. Lucia, the oldest of the three children, relates that the Blessed Virgin Mary opened her hands, and "rays of light seemed to penetrate the earth, and we saw, as it were, a sea of fire. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in huge fires, without weight or equilibrium, amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. (It must have been this sight which caused me to cry out, as people say they heard me.) The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repellent likeness to frightful and unknown animals, black and transparent like burning coals. Terrified and as if to plead for help, we looked up at Our Lady, who said to us so sadly: “You have seen Hell where the souls of poor sinners go. Thus, when you say the rosary, say after each mystery: O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of Thy Mercy.” After this vision, the children lived dramatic lives of sacrifice and penance for sinners so that sinners might be converted and saved from the fires of Hell that God had shown them through His Heavenly prophetess. olrl.org/doctrine/came_back.shtml

 

[I_Believe]

Hell Exists
And We Might Go There

This article is based on a talk given by Fr. Marcel Nault at the Fatima Bishops Conference.

When I am invited to preach, I remember the words of Christ: “the Holy Spirit will speak in you and through you.” And when I think about the Apostles, I do not imagine them going from town to town with their computer, their microphones, their recording machine, their filing cabinet. They go and they let the Holy Spirit speak. Because it is the Holy Spirit that changes the heart of sinners, I put all my trust in the wisdom and the strength of the Holy Spirit.

I preach everywhere the message of Our Lady of Fatima. What will I preach? I preach what I think is the most important. I preach what is the most important teachings of Our Lord Jesus and when Jesus Christ came on earth, He came for one reason, to save souls from Hell.

St. John Chrysostom, a beloved Father of the Church, used to say and repeat that the Lord Jesus preached more often on the Catholic Dogma of Hell than any other subject.

Some people say it is better to preach on Heaven. I believe that the more a person meditates on that truth which we call Hell, the more that meditation produces many fruits of conversion.

St. Benedict, the founder of the Benedictines, was in Rome and the Holy Spirit told him, “You are going to lose your soul.” He left Rome and he went into solitude to meditate on the Holy Gospel. He meditated, prayed and did penance, and the Holy Spirit spread the word and people flocked to him. Holiness attracts souls.

Why do you think St. Augustine changed his life? Because of the fear of Hell. I preach often on Hell because the Lord Jesus and Our Blessed Mother asked me to preach on Hell and when I preach on Hell, you feel, you know, that I believe in the reality that we call a Roman Catholic Dogma, Hell.

Pope Pius IX, who gave us the Roman Catholic Dogma on the Immaculate Conception; Pope Pius IX, who has given us the Syllabus, used to preach and ask preachers to please, please, preach more often on Hell.

The thought of Hell makes saints. Curiously, saints are afraid to go to Hell. The Curé of Ars was afraid to go to Hell. St. Therese of the Infant Jesus was afraid to go to Hell. Saint Simon Stock, the Superior General of the Carmel priests, said that his monks were even afraid to go to Hell despite the fact that they were fasting, praying and living out of the world.

Mary, Our Lady of Mount Carmel, appeared to Saint Simon Stock and told him: Don’t be afraid anymore, I’m giving you Carmelites a special vestment; all those who will die wearing that vestment will not go to Hell.

I wear the Brown Scapular inside my vestment, and I have another one in my pocket because I never know when people will ask me to preach, and when I preach, I preach the Holy Rosary and the Brown Scapular.

Mary said, “Through the Rosary and Scapular I will save the world.”

One cannot specialize and preach everything, but the Lord Jesus invited me to preach on Hell. A monsignor said to me, “Marcel, don’t preach on Hell. People don’t like that, you scare them.” And in a very friendly way that Monsignor said to me, “Marcel, I have never preached on Hell and look at the position I have. I will never preach on Hell.”

After a long silence, I looked him in the eye and said, “Monsignor, you are on the road to Hell for all eternity. You preach, Monsignor, to please the crowd, instead of preaching to please Christ.”

When God sent prophets in the Old Testament, it was to remind the people to come back to the truth, to come back to holiness. Jesus came, Jesus preached. He sent His Apostles into the world to preach the Holy Gospel.

The serpent came and spread his poisons of heresy, and the Lord Jesus decided to send His Beloved Mother, the Queen of Prophets, to earth to destroy heresies. And it is written by the Fathers of the Church that the Mother of God is the hammer of all heresies.

On July 13, 1917, Mary came to Fatima as a prophet of The Most High to save souls from Hell. Our Lady lowered Her hands and suddenly, the three children saw a hole in the ground.

That hole, says Lucy, was like a sea of fire in which she saw the forms of humans, men and women, shouting and crying in despair. And she saw demons in the forms of ugly animals. The vision was so horrible that the children feared that they would die from fright.

And Mary said to the three children, “You have seen Hell where the souls of poor sinners go.”

Each time you say the Rosary, my children, do say after each decade, “O My Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of Thy Marcy.”

Mary came to Fatima to save souls from Hell. The Curé of Ars, the patron of all parish priests, used to preach that the greatest act of charity towards your neighbor is to save souls from Hell. One day when he was hearing confession in a little church, the devil, in the form of a man, raged and screamed, “I hate you. I hate you because you stole from my hand 85,000 souls.”

cont…

 

[I_Believe]

You Excellencies, Cardinals and we priests, when we come to the judgment, Jesus will ask one question. “I made you a priest, a bishop, a cardinal, a pope. How many souls have you saved? How many souls have you saved from Hell?”

The Curé of Ars saved more than 85,000 sinners. How many souls have we saved? When you read the Fathers of the Church, the Doctors of the Church, the Saints, you are struck by one thing: they all preach the Holy gospel of Jesus; Heaven, Purgatory, and they never fail to preach on the Roman Catholic Dogma of Hell.

Read the Fathers of the Church, the Doctors of the Church, all those priests, magnificent apostles of Jesus Christ. They all preach on the Catholic Dogma of Hell because when we meditate on Hell we become a saint.

I don’t want to criticize the bishops, but it is sad for me to say that in my thirty years of priesthood I have never heard a bishop, my bishops or any other bishop, preach on the Roman Catholic Dogma of Hell. I suppose in India and elsewhere they do, but in America, we don’t preach on Hell.
Preach to save souls not to please

In many dioceses I have often heard bishops recite the Rosary, but they decline to add the little Fatima prayer after each decade because “the people don’t like that.”

We are not there preaching to please the crowd but to save souls, to prevent them from going to Hell for all eternity. And I think the little prayer of Our Lady of Fatima given to the children on July 13, 1917, is more powerful and more pleasing to God than any kind of meditation. The meditations that we priests write down and pronounce, they might be nice, but after each decade do you know a meditation more powerful, more holy than the prayer given by Our Lady of Fatima? Please, after each decade, do recite it.

I preach often on Hell. My friends, you have received your catechism, you have received your gifts from God. For me, Jesus wants me, Jesus asks me, Jesus begs me, Our Lady of Fatima begs me to preach Hell.

There are many revelations that we can read in the holy books and some souls in Hell have spoken, given the privilege by God, to help us in our faith. And those souls in Hell say, “We could accept to be in Hell a thousand years. We could accept to be in Hell a million years, if we knew that one day we would leave Hell.”

But no, my friends, we must meditate, not only on the pre-destination of seeing God in Heaven, we must also meditate on the eternity of Hell. I heard a priest in the charismatic conference with about 10,000 laypeople and 300 priests present. He was preaching, “My friends, God is love, God is mercy and you will see His Infinite Mercy at the end of the world, delivering souls from Hell.”

What heresy! Yet his bishop did not remove his faculties, and he was allowed to continue to preach such heresy. With our little human intelligence we make a little “philosophic reasoning”. God is love, God is our Father. How can a loving Father take His little Peter and throw him in to the furnace of Hell? Why that would be an insult to God, Who is love.

How many times have you heard that hypocrisy? My friends, Hell exists. Hell is eternal. I can go into Hell. You can go into Hell. And if God had called me to my eternal reward some years ago, I would have gone to Hell for all eternity, weeping, crying. Not for a million years, not for a thousand million years, but for eternity.

And in gratitude to the Most Holy Trinity, to Our Blessed Mother, I go to Confession every week, I recite my 15 Mysteries of the Rosary every day, my breviary, I wear my Brown Scapular, and I preach the Rosary and the Brown Scapular to everyone. I preach to bishops like I preach to everyone because bishops too have a soul to be saved.

The Lord Jesus has chosen us among men to make us priests for one reason, to offer sacrifice to the Almighty Father and save souls from Hell. When I preach at parish retreats, I always end with the preaching on Hell.
Devotion to the Rosary is a great sign of pre-destination

I am not holy but I pray my Rosary, I wear my Scapular, I say my breviary, seven days a week. I say my Mass every day, I go to confession every week and I hope (I’m not sure, nobody is sure) to go to Heaven.

Nobody is sure unless they have a private revelation from God. Why not take all insurance Our Lady of Fatima has given us: “Devotion to My Rosary is a great sign of pre-destination.”

She has given us another insurance, “that anyone dying in this habit [the Brown Scapular] shall not suffer eternal fire.”

If only one bishop among you would come to Fatima and go back to his diocese and beseech his people, “I am your bishop. I am here to save your souls from Hell. Please accept my teaching today, listen to my teaching today. Meditate on my teaching today. And please, my priests, imitate your bishop, preach on Hell.”

If only you would do this, you will be doing the greatest act of charity of your priesthood, of your episcopal apostolate.

Preach Hell and Jesus will bless you, Jesus will forgive you your weakness, Jesus will forgive your sins if you do preach Hell. By preaching Hell, you are making a terrific act of charity because those that will hear you, they will believe, they will change their lives and they will go to Confession.

Saints go to confession, Saints go to confession! And those that go to confession frequently become Saints.
olrl.org/doctrine/hell.shtml

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I don’t know a lot of the ins and outs of the secrets and I tend to trust the Church anyway on such matters (but perhaps that’s mere pragmatism). For me, the greatest impact of Fatima personally is (with thanks to I Believe for providing the entire context of the prayer):

“O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of Thy Mercy.”

With the Divine Mercy devotion, this prayer can, I believe, move Heaven and Earth. We know our own need for Mercy and, for me, saying the prayer makes me realize my own need for Mercy even more deeply, which enables me to more earnestly ask for Mercy for the whole world. We should pray that God pours His Mercy out on all the earth. I don’t know if our time or our world’s time is long or short, but the need for Mercy is always acute, always immediate. We should never cease to cry out for it.

 

[paramedicgirl]

I don’t know a lot of the ins and outs of the secrets and I tend to trust the Church anyway on such matters (but perhaps that’s mere pragmatism). For me, the greatest impact of Fatima personally is (with thanks to I Believe for providing the entire context of the prayer):

“O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of Thy Mercy.”

With the Divine Mercy devotion, this prayer can, I believe, move Heaven and Earth. We know our own need for Mercy and, for me, saying the prayer makes me realize my own need for Mercy even more deeply, which enables me to more earnestly ask for Mercy for the whole world. We should pray that God pours His Mercy out on all the earth. I don’t know if our time or our world’s time is long or short, but the need for Mercy is always acute, always immediate. We should never cease to cry out for it.

JKirk!!! Hiya!!!

 

[JustaServant]

I don’t know a lot of the ins and outs of the secrets and I tend to trust the Church anyway on such matters (but perhaps that’s mere pragmatism). For me, the greatest impact of Fatima personally is (with thanks to I Believe for providing the entire context of the prayer):

“O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of Thy Mercy.”

With the Divine Mercy devotion, this prayer can, I believe, move Heaven and Earth. We know our own need for Mercy and, for me, saying the prayer makes me realize my own need for Mercy even more deeply, which enables me to more earnestly ask for Mercy for the whole world. We should pray that God pours His Mercy out on all the earth. I don’t know if our time or our world’s time is long or short, but the need for Mercy is always acute, always immediate. We should never cease to cry out for it.

Great post.

 

[judechild]

Can you explain what you mean by this.

It is a Church teaching that public revelation is closed and no private revelation can add to it so no private revelation is binding upon faithful Catholics.

Sorry, all I meant was “I believe it happened, and I think the evidence for it points that way as well.” I know that private revelation is not binding, but I think the message of Fatima is important for our present time.

 

[rinnie]

Now we’re told that part is still kept a secret. And you don’t hear about Novenas anymore.

---

The third secret was revealed several years ago during the lifetime of beloved John Paul the Great.

A lot of people who would rather believe gloom, doom, and rumors of boom instead of what the Church says don’t want to accept it.

You don’t hear of Novenas anymore? I guess you never stepped inside a RCC. My Dad did novena’s until the day he died. I believe in them so so much and do them often. Not as much as I should and actually will start one today.

You must remember what is revealed to us by the Church is when God wants it revealed. What I think people forget is the the Holy Spirit is living today as much as at Pentecost. The words of God are not finished. The Church still has the divine word of Christ. That is why the Catholic CHurch is the Living Christ today. Because it is alive. God still speaks. That is why we have more and more understanding of scripture. God explains it to us through the Church when we are ready to hear it.

Its like people say they believe in the divine power of the CHurch, but do they understand what it really is. If they did, they would understand Fatima, and other things. God still comes to the Pope, Bishops etc and speaks in the Spirit. Was that not promised to us. I WILL GIVE YOU THE WORDS. That has never died. Because Jesus Christ is not dead. He is living. As much today as from the beg. of time.

 

[aicirt]

You don’t hear of Novenas anymore? I guess you never stepped inside a RCC. My Dad did novena’s until the day he died. I believe in them so so much and do them often. Not as much as I should and actually will start one today.

You must remember what is revealed to us by the Church is when God wants it revealed. What I think people forget is the the Holy Spirit is living today as much as at Pentecost. The words of God are not finished. The Church still has the divine word of Christ. That is why the Catholic CHurch is the Living Christ today. Because it is alive. God still speaks. That is why we have more and more understanding of scripture. God explains it to us through the Church when we are ready to hear it.

Its like people say they believe in the divine power of the CHurch, but do they understand what it really is. If they did, they would understand Fatima, and other things. God still comes to the Pope, Bishops etc and speaks in the Spirit. Was that not promised to us. I WILL GIVE YOU THE WORDS. That has never died. Because Jesus Christ is not dead. He is living. As much today as from the beg. of time.

It was mandatory from first grade through eighth grade to attend the Novena at 3 PM every Monday at my parochial school. This involved hundreds of kids plus the other participants. The purpose was to pray for the BVM intentions the primary one being the conversion of Russia. Very big deal during the Cold War years. So I most certainly have heard of Novenas. It is not a big deal now. If the conversion of Russia has not been accomplished, I wonder why this devotion hasn’t continued.

 

[TNKnight]

I too believe that our Blessed Mother did appear to these children in Fatima, just as she appeared in Lourdes and Guadalupe. We are her children and she is showing that she is our loving mother by these miraculous appearances, and by the guidance that she provides every time she visits with us.

Anyone who is not afraid of Hell is probably going to end up there. Not because of what I say, but because they are unlikely to fear the Lord and obey His commandments. I cringe whenever I hear His name taken in vain, and this happens much too often. Why would you choose to insult God in this way?

I wondered throughout my youth, I was born in 1953, what the third mystery of Fatima was. I finally realized that this was of minor importance in my life. What really matters most is to be reverent and respectful of God and to try to live our lives in service to Him and in obedience to His guidelines, as provided by Jesus.

Let us all provide testimony of our faith through the way we conduct ourselves and lead our lives. As I Believe has warned us, Hell is waiting for those souls who will not listen to God and conform with His covenant. We should be afraid of spending an eternity in that torment and can only avoid it by working to please God. God is love, let us share that love with all we meet.

 

[JustaServant]

I too believe that our Blessed Mother did appear to these children in Fatima, just as she appeared in Lourdes and Guadalupe. We are her children and she is showing that she is our loving mother by these miraculous appearances, and by the guidance that she provides every time she visits with us.

Anyone who is not afraid of Hell is probably going to end up there. Not because of what I say, but because they are unlikely to fear the Lord and obey His commandments. I cringe whenever I hear His name taken in vain, and this happens much too often. Why would you choose to insult God in this way?

I wondered throughout my youth, I was born in 1953, what the third mystery of Fatima was. I finally realized that this was of minor importance in my life. What really matters most is to be reverent and respectful of God and to try to live our lives in service to Him and in obedience to His guidelines, as provided by Jesus.

Let us all provide testimony of our faith through the way we conduct ourselves and lead our lives. As I Believe has warned us, Hell is waiting for those souls who will not listen to God and conform with His covenant. We should be afraid of spending an eternity in that torment and can only avoid it by working to please God. God is love, let us share that love with all we meet.

When I was a preacher I would often have someone ask if they are going to Hell because they feared they committed the unforgivable sin.
My reply was always, ‘if you’re worried about it, you probably haven’t done it’.
Those who do not fear Hell are the people who NEED to worry.