Fatima

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If I went into a Mosque or a Hindu temple and set up a crucifix and an alatar I would have my head permanently detached from my body in most painful manner.

No doubt the Pope had good intentions, that still doesnt mean he mad poor judgment. God Bless the Pope , I love that man but hes appeasing moslems. We have a lack of faith in historical christendom and instead of expanding back to the bibical lands of Christendom hes making friends with the enemy of the west and of Catholicism. What ever happend to the glory days of the Crusader Popes!
 
Hi all;

I think when we critize and blow an incident out of porportion we do the devil’ work for him. In this case we have to trust those who are more close to Fatima because otherwise we just end up blaming this priest or that one. If those close to Fatima (Fr. Fox and others) say this is misunderstood then let’s just suspend judgement and just pray that it will all be cleared up. The devil loves to cast division among believers, let’s not give in to doing this. Pray that’s the most important thing now. :gopray:
 
Catholic Eagle:
You guys talk about Fr.Fox but what about Fr.Gruner? Fr.Gruner is also approved by the Vatican and has received letters of encouragement from the Pope and his secretary Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz. Fr.Gruner is not suspended either.
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“Fr Gruner is Suspended”

Very much so…He is Suspended - Rome has spoken

Blue Army- Gruner is Suspended
Blue Army:
Note:

We are NOT associated with Fr. Nicholas Gruner or the Fatima Crusader. As of Sept. 13, 2001, from the Vatican, The Congregation of the Clergy suspended Fr. Gruner from offering Mass.
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Sr Lucia rejects Gruners Lies about her and Fatima:
With reference to the third part of the secret of Fatima, she affirmed that she had attentively read and meditated upon the booklet published by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and confirmed everything that was written there. To whoever imagines that some part of the secret has been hidden, she replied: “Everything has been published; no secret remains.” To those who speak and write of new revelations she said: “There is no truth in this. If I had received new revelations I would have told no-one, but I would have communicated them directly to the Holy Father.”

Sister Lucy was asked: “What do you say to the persistent affirmations of Fr. Gruner who is gathering signatures in order that the Pope may finally consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, which has never been done?”. She replied: “The Carmelite Community has rejected the forms for gathering the signatures. I have already said that the consecration that Our Lady desired was accomplished in 1984 and was accepted in heaven.”

“Is it true,” the communique concludes, “that Sister Lucy is extremely worried by recent events and does not sleep but prays night and day?”. Sister Lucy replied: “It is not true. How could I pray during the day if I did not rest at night? How many things are attributed to me! How many things I am supposed to have done! Let them read my book, there are the advice and appeals that correspond to Our Lady’s wishes. Prayer and penitence, accompanied by an immense faith in God, will save the world.”
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Fatima “Secrets Revealed”

I think anyone who is serious about Fatima and following the church’s teaching and authority certainly will have nothing to do with Fr. Gruner. He speaks for no one. He is suspended, he is a disgrace.
 
If Fr.Gruner is suspended then why did Archbishop Dziwisz send him a letter of greetings ?www.fatima.org/dzisup0503.htm
I also like that grossklas website. Are they bishops or something? Declaring a newspaper “materially schismatic” or a manifesto schismatics, by what authority do they do that?
 
Catholic Eagle:
If Fr.Gruner is suspended then why did Archbishop Dziwisz send him a letter of greetings ?www.fatima.org/dzisup0503.htm
I also like that grossklas website. Are they bishops or something? Declaring a newspaper “materially schismatic” or a manifesto schismatics, by what authority do they do that?
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Probably the same reason I send a card in response to a card of Easter greetings or any greeting from someone. It’s called being polite. Fatima. org uses the weakest things imaginable to promote the lie Fr Gruner is in good standing. Good heavens…It’s a card of Easter greetings in response to a card of Easter greetings from Gruner, which knowing Fr Gruner was sent to get a response to use just for this purpose. I quite imagine his card was no sweet greeting but Archbishop Dziwisz choose not to respond in kind. Very bad taste as usual for Gruner to set up a web page using such a thing as a Easter Greeting Card to prove his lie, which frankly, is his usual desperate attempt to claim legitimacy.

I quite got a chuckle out of the tongue in cheek response the Archbishop added :" and other materials you sent" Wise Bishop…Very dumb move by Gruner and company as usual. All they got for their materials and diatribe was a greeting. 😃 😃 That did make me laugh.
 
Well Marie. Has Russia been converted? NO
I challenge you to go to Russia or ask a Russian how many people go to Church in Russia on Sunday. To any church. If Russia has been converted yet why is a group of Carmelite nuns not allowed to build a monastery because it is "prostelytizing’. Russia is till far from being converted.
 
Catholic Eagle,

As Sister Lucia has said time and time again, the consecration was done, why do you continue to question her word? Since when must God act in an instant to please we mortals. He lives outside of time and space. His time is not your time nor mine. Our Lady did not say “Russia will be converted immediately when the consecration is done,” now did she. She said it would almost be too late. Well it’s only been a very short blink of Gods eye, so time is irrelevant. The Wall and Communism fell 5 years after the Consecration. Our Lady again did not say it would be in an instant.

If you hang your hat of faith on time according to your wants and desires and Fr Gruner then you will be sadly disappointed. And if you choose to continue following Fr Gruner’s version and calling Sister Lucia a liar then why follow Fatima at all?

The only one who would love to destroy Fatima is Satan. The only ones who would even suggest Sister Lucia is a liar are certainly not holy nor in Gods Will. Gruner is at the very least a self deluded no body and at worst and enemy of Our Lady and the Fatima message.
Pax,
Marie
 
Catholic Eagle:
Well Marie. Has Russia been converted? NO
I challenge you to go to Russia or ask a Russian how many people go to Church in Russia on Sunday. To any church. If Russia has been converted yet why is a group of Carmelite nuns not allowed to build a monastery because it is "prostelytizing’. Russia is till far from being converted.
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Fr. Fox has had a Bishop from Russia speak about the rebirth of religious orders, churches in Russia. Yes, there are many Russians that go to church, they are hungry for the faith. Our Lady said Russia would be converted but that doesn’t mean in a instant. The government that opposed the church is gone. The way is open for conversion, yet we still have our free will. We can accept or reject the faith. Aid to the Church in Need (www.aidtothechurchinneed.org ) is an organization that deals with that area and they report seminaries full, churches full and in need of repair. I think the Carmelite nuns you refer to might be having trouble with the Orthodix Russian church that sided with the communist government. They don’t want their people “prostelytized”
 
I can appreciate the desire on the part of many here to believe that no sacrilege has occured; indeed, charity is a duty for Christians, which means we must always think as well of our fellows as we reasonably can. That said, I do not think that it is reasonable to conclude that the sacrilege claims are a hoax.

I have read a number of claims to the effect that the photos could be faked. This is no doubt true, but it is equally true that the counter claims could be lies. What we have are traditionalists (with photos) saying that sacrilege has occured, and ecumenists (with nothing but their own say-so) saying that it has not. Both sides have something to gain from the outcome of the argument, so both claims must be regarded suspiciously. What is needed is a neutral voice; one without any dog in this fight.

To that end, I would point out that the Portugal News, a leading non-sectarian English-language newspaper in Portugal, covered this event. The [story](http://the-news.net/cgi-local/story.pl?title=Hindus worship at Fátima altar&edition=all) reports that “sixty Hindus… travelled from Lisbon to pay homage to the Goddess Devi” at the Shrine. The story reports that these Hindu pilgrims conducted their ceremonies “on the altar.” Now this newspaper, unlike the partisans of Frs. Fox or Gruner, has nothing to gain one way or the other from the reporting of this story. As such, I do not see any reasonable way that we can avoid the conclusion that Hindus performed puja in the Fatima Shrine. To persist in the hopes that this is just a malicious rumor is nothing but willful denial of manifest facts.
 
See santuario-fatima.pt/portal/index.php?id=1448 Note especially his description of the acts of the Hindu priest
  1. The priest sang a prayer which lasted a few minutes. No gesture was made, no rite was performed, on or off the altar. The translator explained that he had asked “the Most Holy Mother that she would give wisdom and discernment to those who govern nations, so that the world could have peace, peace, peace”.
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Dear Joe,

I have read the communiqué which you linked. All I can say is that the shrine rector is a biased source in this inquiry, just like the folks at Catholic Family News who put up those photos with the lurid commentaries are a biased source. The Portugal News, however, has no dog in this fight, as it were, and they can therefore be trusted to count as a less biased source. As such, if the Portugal News says that pilgrims performed puja at the Fatima shrine, then I am inclined to believe the Portugal News over the shrine administration.
 
THIS IS AN ALL OUT DESECRATION OF WHAT IS OF GOD! I SAW POSTS LIKE THIS IN OTHER FORUMS AND I DIDN’T KNOW WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT, BUT NOW I DO! I COULDN’T BELIEVE IT WHEN I READ WHAT WAS ON THE WEB PAGE. I WAS LITERALLY IN SHOCK! I WAS DISGUSTED! I DON’T KNOW EXACTLY WHO IS RESPONSIBLE, I DON’T KNOW IF THE BISHOP KNEW ANYTHING OR NOT, BUT I THINK IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED. I MEAN, WHO WOULD ALLOW SOMETHING LIKE THIS? HINDUS? WORSHIPING IN OUR SACRED PLACES OF WORSHIP? HOW WOULD THEY LIKE IT IF WE WENT INTO A HINDU TEMPLE AND STARTED WORSHIPING OUR GOD THERE? (EVEN THOUGH IT WOULD BE A SACRILEGE AND THEY PROBABLY WOULDN’T CARE ABOUT IT, SEEING WHAT THEY DID, THINK ABOUT IT). I HOPE THE HOLY FATHER ADDRESSES THIS.
 
Catholic Eagle:
Fatima has been talked about much in the past couple of months. Has everyone here heard of the Fatima sacrileges? I hope you have. If you haven’t heard of this – read the following: www.fatima.org/060304rit.htm.
I personally think this an outrage and sacrilege against the Catholic Faith.In reparation for this I believe we should all say many Rosaries in reparation for this.I also want to know what your opinions are on this.
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Actually, I voted " none of the above". Sacrilege, I think, has more to do with the THEFT of some object from Holy Mother Church, or Her children. I think a more appropriate term would be heresy, as it seems to " fit " the circumstances closer,…though it may even border on apostacy.Saying the Rosary is a good start, but " living " a good and true Catholic life should be encouraged by all.
 
I have been to Fatima, my sister’s order is from Fatima and anytime anything like this goes on she asks for prayers.
I can not believe this really happened especially with the thousands of Catholics that are there daily.
I recently posted something I received from the Fatima crusade about a church and a new age leader speaking there, and they are looking for all the support they can to make sure he does not come to this Canadian Parish.
Would they not have done the same in their own homeland??:hmmm:

I’m with supermom there are a whole lot of people out in this world doing the devils work.

Catholic Eagle: Russia consecrated old old news… :yawn:How many Catholics in America go to Sunday Mass. Consecration and conversion are two different things. I know orders here in the states who are having a difficult time getting approved to build new churches, or are given a hard time from the Diocese.
 
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