Fatima's Third Secret and Vatican II

  • Thread starter Thread starter RoseofMary1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
R

RoseofMary1

Guest
The three secrets of Fatima (Approved by the church), consisted of three visions and three explanations by Our Lady. We have only been given the third vision, but not Our Lady’s explanation. Sister Lucia referred to it when she wrote, “In Portugal, the faith will always be preserved, etc.” in her memoirs.

Cardinal Silvio Oddi, one of the last conservatives in the Roman Curia. worked closely with Archbishop Roncalli (the future John XXIII), who was Nuntio in Paris. In 1969, Msgr. Oddi was made a Cardinal by Paul V. From 1979 to 1985 Cardinal Oddi served as Prefect for the Congregation of the Clergy. In an interview, he was quoted as saying (Silvio Oddi, Il Tenero Mastino di Dio, Rome: Progetto Museali Editore, 1995, p. 217-218): "The prophecy of Fatima was completely defied! It is a lack of sense, I would say, because according to the interpretation that seems to me most worthy of consideration, the Third Secret - which John XXIII and his successors thought inopportune to reveal - is not about a supposed conversion of Russia, still far from becoming a reality, but regards the ‘revolution’ in the Catholic Church. From a Council convened to throw light on the beauty and profundity of the Christian mystery by presenting the Church as the spouse of Christ, according to the beautiful words of the same Pope John XXIII, so many innovations were born that they appear to constitute a true internal revolution.

" Home - The Fatima Center):

Cardinal Oddi was also one of a nine-member Commission of Cardinals appointed by Pope John Paul II in 1986 to study the question of the Tridentine Mass. The nine-Cardinal Commission concluded:
  1. The Latin Tridentine Mass has never been abrogated;
  2. All priests have the right to celebrate the Tridentine Mass, and “the bishops cannot forbid or place restrictions on the celebration of the traditional rite of Mass, whether in public or in private.”
 
Last edited:
Pope Benedict declared the third secret was not in the past. Sister Lucias memoir declare there were two envelopes of the third secret. The Fatima.org is approved and Father Grunner was in good standing until his death. It’s all there to be found.
 
Did you read what the Vatican has to say, it’s in the link there
 
Last edited:
Is Father Grunner still under Suspension?


The Holy See has received several news reports concerning the so-called Conference for Peace in the World, which is being planned for Rome for October 7 to 13 and which has been organized by Fr. Nicholas Gruner of Canad_a. The Congregation for the Clergy, upon the mandate from a higher authority, wishes to state that Rev. Nicholas Gruner is under an ‘a divinis’ suspension, which has been confirmed by a definitive sentence of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signature. The activities of Fr. Gruner, therefore, including the above-mentioned conference, do not have the approval of legitimate ecclesiastical authorities._

No doubt this is why Don Ruggero was happy to link an official and approved Fatima Group.
 
Last edited:
Fr. Gruner died 4/29/15. To my knowledge he was still under suspension from ministry at the time of his death.
There is no proof offered to connect the original post conclusion to the third secret of fatima, but in any event the Church’s approval of Fatima is based on information known to the Church as of 1930. The Third Secret was communicated to the Church later.
Still further, Vatican II represents the teaching of a Council, part of the public revelation. A private revelation, no matter if approved, is not authoritative on that level.
Read the Documents of Vatican II, or other Councils, to understand private revelations; better than the reverse.
 
(4) Lack of Responsibility, Lack of Facts: As the “announcement” shows, no one takes responsibility for this “sentence,” provides its grounds, identifies the party who allegedly imposed the sentence or the date it was imposed. That is because there was no sentence to confirm, for no offense was committed. No offense was committed because Father Gruner did not “fail to be incardinated.” The Archbishop of Hyderabad incardinated him, and neither the Bishop of Avellino nor the Apostolic Signatura has ever responded to documentation, served on them more than 7 years ago, establishing Father Gruner’s incardination and rendering moot the Bishop’s never-realized threat of suspension — a threat that, in any event, constituted illicit coercion."
 
It was a bogus suspension. He took the vague letter to the Vatican and received a confirmation of his good standing. Yet, detractors still use it. There is such a media-type propaganda campaign going on to confuse the faithful.

Know the signs of the times.
 
RoseofMary1 said:
It was a bogus suspension. He took the vague letter to the Vatican and received a confirmation of his good standing. Yet, detractors still use it. There is such a media-type propaganda campaign going on to confuse the faithful.

Know the signs of the times.
Click to expand...
To repeat, Fr. Gruner has passed on. Evaluate any of his successor ministries or media by the standard, “is it approved by the local bishop?” You can also inquire if a given ministry or publication is endorsed by the other Fatima apostolates.

The best way to evaluate the theological context is start with the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Any genuine private revelation will be compatible with it, though that does not mean that any private revelation that appears to us as compatible, will automatically be approvable. There is more than meets the eye.
 
Last edited:
This statement shows a complete and total lack of any understanding of Canon law. Not to mention that it is based on a conspiratorialist mindset. The Apostolic Signatura is the highest judicial authority in the Church , subject only to the Pope, and the Signatura confirmed his suspension, which was from refusing a lawful order of his bishop. Much has been wangled about by conspiratorialsts concerning his trial and appeal, none of which shows even a scintilla of knowledge of Canon law, and attempts to rewrite the facts.

He was legitimately suspended after a long time of patience not only by his bishop but many others. The best response is to pray for his soul.
 
roseof mary, please consider what these people are taking the time to type to you.

there are legitimate Fatima Apostolates out there.
 
kristaok said:
Not everyone believes in what happened with Fatima…
Click to expand...
We all should believe that 3 children had a strong conversion experience, and expressed greater love for God for the rest of their lives. I think we all can believe that some people at least report that consideration of the message of Fatima has strengthened their own faith, and many have shown some fruits of this in their own lives. Anyone should be open minded to accept this much.

Whether Mary appeared at Fatima, and whether her reported statements have divine approval, is not a matter of public revelation. The Church encourages us to consider it, but we may or may not personally relate to this or other private revelations. Whether a person “believes” in what happened at Fatima is not so important. Millions of Christians, especially Protestants, don’t believe in Fatima but live out lives of personal conversion, which Fatima reportedly called for.

Some other Christians “believe” in Fatima, but perhaps have not lived out lives of personal conversion, or boosted this private revelation out of proportion, or other issues. But I think they are the minority, and do not refute the message of Fatima.

The important thing is not Fatima, but conversion, which many have reported Fatima devotion to have encouraged.
 
Shrieking nah-nah does not “debunk” the truth. The truth is there to be found. Show your proof that the “Chancellor of the Diocese of Brooklyn felt there was room for grave concern…” That is simply not true. You are spreading calumny against Father Grunner. If you look at fatima.org, you will see for yourself as it is all posted there. Refusing to look at facts you don’t like is just pride.

Jesus said those who love the truth will hear His voice and warned us to know the signs of the times. Our Lady has warned us enough.
 
I said nothing against Fr. Gruner. Read my post if again, if it is not too difficult. It is not calumny to tell others that they should read for themselves and try to find out for themselves about Fr. Gruner before they believe these things. Yet for encouraging research, you accused me of calumny. That alone should convince anyone to not believe your claims or to trust you.

And as to “shreiking”? Once again, pot meet kettle.
 
Last edited:
Our Lady of the Roses is NOT an approved apparition, and I have never even referred to it.

There are many apparitions that have been officially approved by the church as authentic and “worthy of belief,” including Our Lady of Good Success, Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of Revelation, Our Lady of La Sallette. In one she warns of the “suicide of changing the liturgy” and that Masonry would rule the world in error.
 
One of the things that Our Lady said at Fatima was that “Cardinals will oppose Cardinals, bishops oppose bishops…all on account of me.”

Father Grunner died in good standing with the church. Be careful about committing calumny against him.
 
RoseofMary1 said:
In one she warns of the “suicide of changing the liturgy” and that Masonry would rule the world in error.
Click to expand...
Again, I would recommend a little research. Search for this phrase as used in quotes and you will come to a group of dissident heretics.

http://www.ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage.asp?number=359079&Pg=&Pgnu=&recnu=
Dear Mary, I know only of one name, Mr. Venari, but the group sound simply like a group of disobedient Catholics who no longer submit to the teaching of the Church. To reject Vatican 2 as they seem to be doing is extremely serious, an act of heresy.
Click to expand...
Rejecting the papacy is not and never will be traditional Catholicism. (or Catholicism at all).
Father Grunner died in good standing with the church. Be careful about committing calumny against him.
Click to expand...
And while I am at it, don’t believe this without looking into what the Church actually says, not this poster.
 
Last edited:
It would take a pretty naive person to think the third secret was revealed in full.

Especially since the various Popes have stubbornly refused to consecrated Russia… It all seems very fishy.

Oh well. Everything will be revealed in the end.
 
Last edited:
I would rather say that Catholics who refuse to believe Pope after Pope are the stubborn one, or at least wanting to believe in some sort of cool, hidden stuff. That’s always fun and why conspiracies are so popular.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top