Fatima's Third Secret and Vatican II

[otjm]

Saying the consecration wasn’t done is calling Pope John Paul 2 a liar, as well as Cardinal Ratzinger (who said at the time that JP 2 had done the consecration).

There are numerous conspiratorialists who insist that Mary gave a specific and special formula, and (obviously) the prayers and consecration of the Pope are illegitimate because the specific formula was not followed.

A) that makes the formula to border on magic,. B) God is not constrained by formulas; God is free to act as God sees fit, even if we don’t get it all exactly right. C) no one has ever convincingly shown that Mary said “The is i the formula, and if it is not followed, Russia will not be consecrated” or anything even remotely approaching that. D) the last visionary said the consecration occurred - and not to make too fine a point of it, she was there listening to Mary, and the conspiratorialists were not.

The Pope said it was done. The smartest theologian alive today (Ratzinger) said it was done. The visionary said it was done. You have neither the theological training nor the knowledge to wade in on the matter. The consecration ws done. Give it up.

 

[RoseofMary1]

Our Lady wanted Russia to be specifically consecrated. She was calling out what she called the “errors” of Russia (Socialism/Communism/Marxism, making the government a god). The whole world was consecrated to her Immaculate heart, but that is not what she asked for.

 

[superblue]

Seems like the lesson here is, if you have a " secret or secrets " given to you , by anyone in Heaven, ask that spiritual being to please spare you the drama and go directly to the Pope with it. And /or ask for very specific deatiled instructions on what to do and when because everyone and their uncle will distort what was actually meant to fit their own agenda and/or will deem it to be a secret to never be revealed in full. And to get a lawyer so that said investigative clergy can be directed to talk too; for your own protection and the protection of the information given.

 

[RoseofMary1]

Fatima is approved by the church as authentic, supernatural and “worthy of belief.”

We need to be careful about dishonoring Jesus’ mother.

 

[superblue]

ya we, be careful, or else.

 

[AlNg]

I don’t think the miracle of the sun was a miracle.

I saw a movie where they say that the sun came down from the sky and hurled toward the earth, and then went back up into the sky. If this actually happened, wouldn’t it cause some sort of chaotic movement in the planetary system. And wouldn’t people in Serbia or Argentina have seen it?

 

[RoseofMary1]

It was seen by over 70,000 people, including atheists, socialist, communists, etc. It was even reported in the local Liberal paper…

There you go, it was a supernatural event. It had been raining all day, the crowd was wet, but after the miracle, they were all dry and the ground was dry. That much energy should have vaporized them, but it didn’t. Hmm.

 

[michaelArc]

Sometimes people see an oasis, doesn’t mean there is a lake of water at the end of the desert. An unexplainable optical illusion doesn’t make it any less of a miracle.

 

[pnewton]

You keep using that word. Let me throw out the definition so we all know why it is being wrongly used.

Calumny - the making of false and defamatory statements in order to damage someone’s reputation; slander.

Since the accusation is true, this is not calumny. You keep selling this as false. No one is buying. The evidence of the matter is too easily found by anyone. Instead of carrying on about calumny, provide documentation from the Church, or continue here with no credibility.

We need to be careful about dishonoring Jesus’ mother.

You are not the mother of Jesus. Neither is Father Gruner. Neither is the city of Fatima. I know this seems obvious to the rest of us, but as you made the above statement, I do no know that you understand the distinction and realize no one has dishonored Mary in the slightest. Again, I invite you, if you want, to provide evidence where anyone has made such statements apart from the three above mentioned, you, Fr. Gruner, or Fatima.

You do know that you are doing harm to the devotion to Our Lady of Fatima here, don’t you? It is this sort of fanaticism that puts people off on this devotion.

 

[pnewton]

I saw a movie where they say that the sun came down from the sky and hurled toward the earth, and then went back up into the sky. If this actually happened, wouldn’t it cause some sort of chaotic movement in the planetary system. And wouldn’t people in Serbia or Argentina have seen it?

The nature of the miracle has not been defined. It must be rather factual that the sun did not approach the Earth for the reasons you mention. However, even if this event was largely psychological, the miracle cannot be discounted. There has never been any event like this ever. For those that claim a mass delusion, simply ask for another case of this type of delusion. There is none. This remains totally miraculous and without parallel.

 

[AlNg]

There has never been any event like this ever.

Sun miracles have been reported at other Marian sites—at Lubbock, Texas, in 1989; Mother Cabrini Shrine near Denver, Colorado, in 1992; Conyers, Georgia, in the early to mid-1990s; and Thiruvananthapuram, India, in 2008.

 

[pianistclare]

True, but Conyers was a hoax.
No one here believes it. And it was denounced ROUNDLY by the Archbishop and the priests at that parish.