Favorite Communion hymn

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I guess I am curious, if there are parishes where the propers are used? In general, are Catholics aware that there are texts that we miss out on week after week? (songs / hymns are inserted into the Mass instead.)
Maybe I should add a poll to this - - but I don’t know how…
 
27lw said:
I guess I am curious, if there are parishes where the propers are used? In general, are Catholics aware that there are texts that we miss out on week after week? (songs / hymns are inserted into the Mass instead.)
Maybe I should add a poll to this - - but I don’t know how…
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They are used at a neighbouirng parish at their High Mass and are used monthly at our more solemn mass. But there is no sense that we are in any way “missing out” if we don’t hear the Propers chanted, or that the mass is in any way diminished by their absence. Church documents on music in the liturgy allow hymns, and the GIRM is also clear that the propers are no longer propers in the sense they are sometimes perceived as they are now simply one option among many. Besides, even before Vatican II reforms the propers were rarely heard by most Catholics, as most parishes did not have the choral resource to sing them.
 
liturgyluver said:
They are used at a neighbouirng parish at their High Mass and are used monthly at our more solemn mass. But there is no sense that we are in any way “missing out” if we don’t hear the Propers chanted, or that the mass is in any way diminished by their absence. Church documents on music in the liturgy allow hymns, and the GIRM is also clear that the propers are no longer propers in the sense they are sometimes perceived as they are now simply one option among many. Besides, even before Vatican II reforms the propers were rarely heard by most Catholics, as most parishes did not have the choral resource to sing them.
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But the Propers, being based on Psalms and written specifically for the Sacred Liturgy, are a constitutive part of the Mass and the first priority when it comes to singing these parts. Hymns are a distant fourth-place consolation prize. Psalms are Sacred Scripture, the School of Prayer. Psalms are the highest form of “praise and worship” to God. Mere hymns pale in comparison to the Scriptural basis of Psalms set to music, especially those Propers given in the liturgy itself. They are far from “one option among many”. They are the first priority and should be given pride of place in the Mass.
 
liturgyluver said:
But there is no sense that we are in any way “missing out” if we don’t hear the Propers chanted, or that the mass is in any way diminished by their absence. Church documents on music in the liturgy allow hymns, and the GIRM is also clear that the propers are no longer propers in the sense they are sometimes perceived as they are now simply one option among many. Besides, even before Vatican II reforms the propers were rarely heard by most Catholics, as most parishes did not have the choral resource to sing them.
Click to expand...
Well, I think there are a lot of versions of the propers now, that don’t have to use a full choir. I guess it does seem to me that we are missing out, if the propers are listed as the first option, and yet we never hear them? I think we are missing out on the experience of Mass as described in the GIRM. It’s not like we hear them once every two months or so, I think most Catholics literally never hear them.
 
Elizium23 said:
But the Propers, being based on Psalms and written specifically for the Sacred Liturgy, are a constitutive part of the Mass and the first priority when it comes to singing these parts. Hymns are a distant fourth-place consolation prize. Psalms are Sacred Scripture, the School of Prayer. Psalms are the highest form of “praise and worship” to God. Mere hymns pale in comparison to the Scriptural basis of Psalms set to music, especially those Propers given in the liturgy itself. They are far from “one option among many”. They are the first priority and should be given pride of place in the Mass.
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No they are not the first priority. The options in the GIRM make no distinction at all between the options, and Musicum Sacram places them (with hymns) in third degree, because they change week by week. In the 1970 missals there were two sets of propers which completely negates the assertion that they represent some kind of unique position in the mass. Besides, in many parishes most people fail to even engage with the Resp. Psalm - what hope is there then for the assembly to engage with the Propers!
 
Elizium23 said:
But the Propers, being based on Psalms and written specifically for the Sacred Liturgy, are a constitutive part of the Mass and the first priority when it comes to singing these parts. Hymns are a distant fourth-place consolation prize. Psalms are Sacred Scripture, the School of Prayer. Psalms are the highest form of “praise and worship” to God. Mere hymns pale in comparison to the Scriptural basis of Psalms set to music, especially those Propers given in the liturgy itself. They are far from “one option among many”. They are the first priority and should be given pride of place in the Mass.
Click to expand...
No they are not the first priority. The GIRM make no distinction at all between the options, and Musicum Sacram places them (with hymns) in third degree, because they change week by week. In the 1970 missals there were two sets of propers which completely negates the assertion that they represent some kind of unique position in the mass. Besides, in many parishes most people fail to even engage with the Resp. Psalm - what hope is there then for the assembly to engage with the Propers!
 
27lw said:
Well, I think there are a lot of versions of the propers now, that don’t have to use a full choir. I guess it does seem to me that we are missing out, if the propers are listed as the first option, and yet we never hear them? I think we are missing out on the experience of Mass as described in the GIRM. It’s not like we hear them once every two months or so, I think most Catholics literally never hear them.
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This is true. But honestly, not many parishes utilize them. And in all my 30+ years of Music Direction, not one priest has ever asked for them. I’ve played in 6 parishes in 3 states. I tried adding them in to the last parish, and I felt as though the priest and the congregation were simply “tolerating” my decision. He did not say don’t do it, but he didn’t affirm the decision either. Directors look to their Pastor for guidance, at least I always did.
So…if people want them, they should respectfully ask their Pastors about it. The use of hymns seems to be the norm. Not saying it’s correct, or better, or worse, …please don’t jump on me…just sayin…
I might add, there’s only one TLM around these parts…I suppose they use them. 🤷

😊
 
Thanks pianistclare - - sounds like you have done a great job adhering to the letter and the spirit of the GIRM! I don’t think anyone will jump on you…
🙂
 
liturgyluver said:
No they are not the first priority. The options in the GIRM make no distinction at all between the options, and Musicum Sacram places them (with hymns) in third degree, because they change week by week. In the 1970 missals there were two sets of propers which completely negates the assertion that they represent some kind of unique position in the mass. Besides, in many parishes most people fail to even engage with the Resp. Psalm - what hope is there then for the assembly to engage with the Propers!
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Yes, they are the first priority, because they are Scriptural! Hymns are nice and lovely but they are not Sacred Scripture!

Singing the Mass, Fourth and Final Part: Practical Points for Singing the Mass
The Proper of the Mass, comprising the chants of the third degree, form an integral, yet often overlooked part of the sung liturgy. The Proper of the Mass consists of three processional chants and two chants between the Lectionary readings. These parts of the Mass, contained in the Roman Missal and Graduale Romanum, are unlike the Order of the Mass and the Ordinary of the Mass in that they are not fixed and unchanging from day to day, but change according to the liturgical calendar, and therefore are “proper” to particular liturgical celebrations.
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The texts of the Proper of the Mass, while of lesser importance than the texts of the Order of the Mass and the Ordinary of the Mass, form a substantial and constitutive element of the liturgy, and I encourage a recovery of their use today. We are blessed to have in our day a kind of reawakening to their value. In addition, many new resources are becoming available that make their singing achievable in parish life. I strongly encourage parishes to take up the task of singing the antiphons and psalmody contained within the liturgical books, and to rediscover the immense spiritual riches contained within the Proper of the Mass.
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Dear Liturgyluver,
Just curious - -
  1. Do you think that the numbering of options in GIRM have no meaning - - that they are in random order?
  2. Does it seem strange that we never hear the propers - -only hymns? Can you really say that although we do not hear a whole category of texts, that we are not “missing out”? That might just be your interpretation. :o
 
27lw said:
Dear Liturgyluver,
Just curious - -
  1. Do you think that the numbering of options in GIRM have no meaning - - that they are in random order?
  2. Does it seem strange that we never hear the propers - -only hymns? Can you really say that although we do not hear a whole category of texts, that we are not “missing out”? That might just be your interpretation. :o
Click to expand...
The wording in the GIRM does not indicate any prioritisation among the options. It simply lists them. Church documents on music in the liturgy reinforce this.

Those same documents make clear the judgments that the church is expected to make in selecting music for the liturgy, That is the Church’s interpretation - not mine.
 
27lw said:
Propers…I doubt if we’ll ever hear those. I guess hope is a virtue though!
🙂
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I get to hear/sing them every Sunday at the abbey where I attend Mass. They are used daily (in Latin Gregorian chant) at the abbey. I also belong to a schola, we do Gregorian chant exclusively and we sing the propers (and ordinary) at Mass once a month in various parishes in and around Sherbrooke, Quebec, as well as for funerals and special occasions.
 
OraLabora said:
I get to hear/sing them every Sunday at the abbey where I attend Mass. They are used daily (in Latin Gregorian chant) at the abbey. I also belong to a schola, we do Gregorian chant exclusively and we sing the propers (and ordinary) at Mass once a month in various parishes in and around Sherbrooke, Quebec, as well as for funerals and special occasions.
Click to expand...
Here we had the Benedictine monks chanting while they were shovelling snow. Does that count? 🙂
 
Adoro te devote
Both words and music is wonderful, there is also a version composed by Franz Scchubert which is simply wonderful.
Or Pange lingua, here sung in Croatian.

The words were written by Saint Thomas Aquinas.
 
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