Favorite Mass Settings?

[HealedOne]

Hi HealedOne. I didn’t mean for my last post regarding the “Graduale Simplex” and how it will be employed in my parish and the diocese to become a debate (it hasn’t yet), but I wanted to throw those things in there since you had mentioned that you wanted to eventually use a very old mass setting with Latin, etc. I guess I’m also just a product of my generation (25-35), so I’m just very optimistic and excited about all of this.

Hi Sarabande, oh no I don’t think I got that impression at all; you’ve offered relevant info and I thank you for it. Reading the arguments of those who are proponents of bringing chant into the Mass, I think that if it is to be done…It should be over an extended period of time. Exposing those at Mass to chant gradually, I think, might be the way to go. I figure that a good rubric would be to simply try and strive, slowly, to make the music of the Mass more timeless, beautiful, praiseful, and prayerful. If chant is the supreme model than a liturgy which is continually moving toward sublimity and beauty would organically move toward chant…am I on the right track you think ?

I urge you not to make this decision about the type of music that would be “best” for a teen Mass without first talking with the teens and sharing this sacred heritage with them. They might surprise you. Or they might agree with you. But give them their voice.

I think this is fair. Actually I took it upon myself to ask one of our teens what he thought about drums at Mass. He actually told me that he preferred that there be no drums. He basically said that instruments like drums and electric guitar were just not “churchy”. I think he thinks that they are just too secular. Then again later he said that electronic drums would be cool. I think I will try and expose the teens to a bit of chant and see what they say…you’re right…they should have a “voice”. After all, our youth ministry is for them…to bring them closer to the Lord. Any chant CD you would recommend as a primer on Ancient Gregorian Chant for the teens ?

Everyone: Thanks for the great discussion…lets keep it going

 

[Guitar]

Having heard the OT “Thanksgiving for Light” that is included in the CBW III chanted at Evening Prayer a few times I found it relatively easy to learn how to sing it myself when I had to lead Evening Prayer in my parish.

I’ll look it up - thank you! Me, I have very little trouble with chant even though born post-VII with no Latin tuition - I need pronunciation guidance but otherwise I just kinda “soak it up”. But H (grew up with Mass in Latin, studied or rather struggled with Latin in high school and sang in choirs all the way through Catholic schooling) does not find it easy to learn chant, so I don’t want to presume that it comes naturally to everyone. (Not that that is a reason for not bothering with it, of course - Shakespeare doesn’t come naturally to most people either but we still study it!)

 

[Sarabande]

Hi Sarabande, oh no I don’t think I got that impression at all; you’ve offered relevant info and I thank you for it. Reading the arguments of those who are proponents of bringing chant into the Mass, I think that if it is to be done…It should be over an extended period of time. Exposing those at Mass to chant gradually, I think, might be the way to go. I figure that a good rubric would be to simply try and strive, slowly, to make the music of the Mass more timeless, beautiful, praiseful, and prayerful. If chant is the supreme model than a liturgy which is continually moving toward sublimity and beauty would organically move toward chant…am I on the right track you think ?

I definitely think you are on the right track. The parishes that are successful in this, do it very gradually. I know that this is the route my diocese will be going as well. Hitting the people with it all at once is not a good idea. I know some colleagues are impatient and want it all at once, but that would just kill it almost immediately in my humble opinion.

Just continue on your track, be loving, open, optimistic and enthusiastic. Being a church musician or head of your parish’s music ministry isn’t easy and can be very taxing emotionally and physically. (Many of my older colleagues have been jaded due to bad experiences with pastors, ‘liturgical’ committees, trying to please congregations, etc.) So keep those four things as the focus and pray, pray, pray. God gives you the strength and will direct in the right way. God bless and best of luck!

 

[japhy]

I think this is fair. Actually I took it upon myself to ask one of our teens what he thought about drums at Mass. He actually told me that he preferred that there be no drums. He basically said that instruments like drums and electric guitar were just not “churchy”. I think he thinks that they are just too secular. Then again later he said that electronic drums would be cool.

“Cool”, yes. But still not “churchy”.

I think I will try and expose the teens to a bit of chant and see what they say… you’re right… they should have a “voice”. After all, our youth ministry is for them… to bring them closer to the Lord. Any chant CD you would recommend as a primer on Ancient Gregorian Chant for the teens?

I have three chant CDs.

One is “Learning About Gregorian Chant”: it combines the music (sung by the monks of the Abbey of Solesmes) with spoken texts describing the music (its history, its evolution, its purpose, etc.). It’s quite informative.

Another is “O Lux Beatissima: A Treasury of Gregorian Chant” (which I downloaded via iTunes): this one (a two-disc set) has 35 chants, sung by a mixed choir of children and adults. Tracks 1-9 are a complete Ordinary of the Mass (Missa Simplex) beginning with the chant Asperges Me. Tracks 10-18 are various Latin hymns (such as O Salutaris Hostia, used during Adoration, and Jesu dulcis memoria (as chant, not polyphony)). Tracks 19-23 are the Ordinary of the Missa Angelis, beginning with the chant Vidi Aquam. Tracks 24-35 are more Latin hymns. This CD is excellent. I love these chants!!!

The third is the “Chant: The Anniversary Edition”, a 2-disc set. It is by the Benedictine monks of Santo Domingo de Silos. There are 36 tracks altogether; most of the chants are foreign to me (I don’t know their liturgical place… I’d guess many of them are Propers to particular Masses) but there are a few stand-out chants that I know. One is Veni Creator Spiritus (a Pentecost hymn), and another is the solemn monastic tone of Salve Regina. This is absolutely beautiful. You can hear another recording of it here. It is heavenly.

I recommend all of them, in the order I listed them. The first gives you a bit of the background; the second lets you hear some typical liturgical chants (and two easily done settings); the third really shows off the spiritual power of chant!

I need to listen to that Salve Regina again.

 

[muffinmojo]

Hi Sarabande, oh no I don’t think I got that impression at all; you’ve offered relevant info and I thank you for it. Reading the arguments of those who are proponents of bringing chant into the Mass, I think that if it is to be done…It should be over an extended period of time. Exposing those at Mass to chant gradually, I think, might be the way to go. I figure that a good rubric would be to simply try and strive, slowly, to make the music of the Mass more timeless, beautiful, praiseful, and prayerful. If chant is the supreme model than a liturgy which is continually moving toward sublimity and beauty would organically move toward chant…am I on the right track you think ?

I think this is fair. Actually I took it upon myself to ask one of our teens what he thought about drums at Mass. He actually told me that he preferred that there be no drums. He basically said that instruments like drums and electric guitar were just not “churchy”. I think he thinks that they are just too secular. Then again later he said that electronic drums would be cool. I think I will try and expose the teens to a bit of chant and see what they say…you’re right…they should have a “voice”. After all, our youth ministry is for them…to bring them closer to the Lord. Any chant CD you would recommend as a primer on Ancient Gregorian Chant for the teens ?

Everyone: Thanks for the great discussion…lets keep it going

Chant CDs:

“Chant:Music for the Soul”
amazon.com/Chant-Music-For-The-Soul/dp/B0019D3DAQ

‘Les Plus Beaux Chants Gregorien’
amazon.fr/Les-plus-beaux-chants-Gr%C3%A9goriens/dp/B0002ANRK8

You’re right about being slow and gradual. Maybe start by using a chant for the communion hymn, the most beautiful part of the Mass, and leave the Mass setting and processional/recessional hymns alone? Make it the ‘special’ thing at the teen Mass for the communion hymn to be chant? Idk lol.

Endless options on youtube if you have access to it when you’re with them. Or at chantcd.com, under ‘samples’.

 

[HealedOne]

Hey Everyone,

 Sorry for the apparent silence but I was on retreat. I definitely think that gradual is the way to go if I am to introduce more chant into Mass. However, I need your help again :) With all this new information (new to me at least) on liturgy and what the ideal for Mass Music actually is, and such...I'm not quite sure how I should plan music for Mass. Can anyone give me a basic guide to planning music for Mass? The more basic and practically worded the better :) Also, any recorded samples would be a plus for any suggested music since....I, as of yet, cannot really read music :blush: . However, I can sing and play the guitar. I have access to the vast majority of the OCP repetior which includes many Mass settings including "Chant Mass" in Latin and the "Heritage Mass" in English...."Mass of Glory" is included too. I also have OCP's "Spirit and Song" books which include more contemporary compositions including the "Mass of Life" and the "Mass of St. Timothy".
  I'm actually tasked with preparing the music for a Mass this Sunday at my Alma Mater and I would appreciate any suggestions. It is a very small Mass (around 12 people) offered for the students of a very small liberal arts school but some older ladies and gentlemen who come as well.

 

[VociMike]

Hi again,

One of the first things to focus on is what must be sung in what order of priority. Many, many people get this wrong, singing things of a lower priority while not singing things which have a higher priority. I hear this happen at Mass all the time.

The directive is found in Musicam Sacram (1967):

1. The distinction between solemn, sung and read Mass, sanctioned by the Instruction of 1958 (n. 3), is retained, according to the traditional liturgical laws at present in force. However, for the sung Mass (Missa cantata), different degrees of participation are put forward here for reasons of pastoral usefulness, so that it may become easier to make the celebration of Mass more beautiful by singing, according to the capabilities of each congregation.

These degrees are so arranged that the first may be used even by itself, but the second and third, wholly or partially, may never be used without the first. In this way the faithful will be continually led toward an ever greater participation in the singing.

1. The following belong to the first degree:

(a) In the entrance rites: the greeting of the priest together with the reply of the people; the prayer.

(b) In the Liturgy of the Word: the acclamations at the Gospel.

(c) In the Eucharistic Liturgy: the prayer over the offerings; the preface with its dialogue and the Sanctus; the final doxology of the Canon, the Lord’s Prayer with its introduction and embolism; the Pax Domini; the prayer after the Communion; the formulas of dismissal.

1. The following belong to the second degree:

(a) the Kyrie, Gloria and Agnus Dei;

(b) the Creed;

(c) the prayer of the faithful.

1. The following belong to the third degree:

(a) the songs at the Entrance and Communion processions;

(b) the songs after the Lesson or Epistle;

(c) the Alleluia before the Gospel;

(d) the song at the Offertory;

(e) the readings of Sacred Scripture, unless it seems more suitable to proclaim them without singing.

So first do your best to see to it that this instruction is carried out. This will bring you a long way to the ideal of actually singing the Mass. It is usually when this ordering is violated that you end up with the undesirable situation of people just singing AT Mass.

 

[HealedOne]

Great, thanks for that. That was very helpful. Do you know where I could maybe hear audio samples of how those parts of the Mass which comprise the first degree should be sung? Is there a specific way or can that vary? I specifically interested in them being sung in English for this particular Mass. Thanks

 

[japhy]

Do you know where I could maybe hear audio samples of how those parts of the Mass which comprise the first degree should be sung?

I will scan in some images from the current English Missal, and record a few MP3s for you, this evening.

 

[HealedOne]

Sounds good, thanks japhy. As long as you’re not breaking any copyright laws or anything.

 

[japhy]

The directive is found in Musicam Sacram (1967) … So first do your best to see to it that this instruction is carried out. This will bring you a long way to the ideal of actually singing the Mass. It is usually when this ordering is violated that you end up with the undesirable situation of people just singing AT Mass.

It is a helpful instruction, but it’s sad that it has not been updated. It has not been abrogated, true, but it has not been updated. Those degrees were written when the liturgy was still more like the 1962 Missal than the 1969 Missal. You’ll notice that the degrees are silent about the “acclamation” at the end of the first and second readings (“The Word of the Lord”, “Thanks be to God”).

 

[japhy]

This is for HealedOne (but anyone can benefit). I don’t have images for everything yet, and I haven’t made MP3s yet either. These are some big images (greyscale JPEGs).

(a) In the entrance rites

1. the greeting of the priest together with the reply of the people
   IMG
2. the prayer
   Priest: [Prayer]
   IMG

(b) In the Liturgy of the Word

1. the acclamations at the Gospel
   (“The Lord be with you.” / “And also with you.” as above)
   Priest: “A reading from the Holy Gospel according to N.”
   People: “Glory to you, Lord.”
   Priest: “The Gospel of the Lord.”
   People: “Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ.”

(c) In the Eucharistic Liturgy

1. the prayer over the offerings
   Priest: [Prayer]
   (Amen as above)

2a. the preface dialogue
IMG

2b. the preface
Priest: [Prayer]

2c. the Sanctus
IMG

1. the final doxology of the Canon
   IMG

4a. introduction & Lord’s Prayer
IMG
Alternate (more common) tone for Our Father

4b. embolism of Lord’s prayer
IMG

1. the Pax Domini
   IMG (part 1)
   IMG (part 2)
2. the prayer after the Communion
   Priest: [Prayer]
   (Amen as above)
3. the formulas of dismissal
   IMG

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

Cavaille-Coll - Have you figured out a way to do the Agnus Dei for the Deutsche Messe using the accurate text? We used to do that mass at my parish (and it sounds absolutely beautiful when choir does it), but stopped because of the Agnus Dei text setting. One of the priests came up after a wedding once and almost burst a brain vessel regarding the text.

That is the one real reservation I have about the St. Michael Hymnal, and I don’t know why they included such a poor translation. I’m not sure how to write this without sheet music, but with the Schubert Agnus Dei tune, one could write it something like this in Latin:

Agnus Dei, qui to-llis
Pecca-a-ta mu-u-undi
Misere-e-re no-o-obis. (2x) (“Miser” two 8th notes on the same pitch as preceding “di”)

Agnus Dei, qui to-llis
Pecca-a-ta mu-u-undi.
Dona nobis pa-a-cem, do-ona nobis pacem.

Or in English:

Lamb of God, you take away
The si-i-ins o-of the world
Have me-e-er cy-y on us (2x)

Lamb of God, you take away
The si-i-ins o-of the world
Gra-nt u-s pe–ace, Gra-a-ant u-u-s peace.

Either way, extra notes would have to be added to keep the rhythm and it’s not that graceful, but it works.

 

[HealedOne]

Thanks for all that japhy I do appreciate it.