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Tom_Baum
Guest
What it seems to me that you said was that it was/is a heretical belief but that those that held this belief were not heretics since they did not profess to be Christian, isn’t this exactly what you said?
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Brendan_64
Guest
Heretics are people who profess to be Christians, but who deny, or hold beliefs in opposition to the teachings of the Church.
CCC 2089 : Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.
Heresy is a** post-baptismal denial.** If you have not been baptised, you cannot be guilty of heresy. Christians who deny any of the teachings of the Catholic Church are viewed by the Church as holding heretical views. Muslims, Hindus, etc. on the other hand do not hold heretical views as they do not profess to be Christians, although the views they hold are also wrong.
Why is it that some people seem to get all ‘hot under the collar’ about the ‘H word’? The definition of heresy is as written in CCC 2089 of the Catechism. If you claim to be a Christian (and have been baptised) and deny any of the teachings of the Church then by the definition of heresy in CCC 2089 you are guilty of heresy. If you have been baptised and reject the Christian faith entirely (i.e. convert to a faith outside of Christianity) then you are guilty of apostasy. That is what our Church teaches.
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EvangelCatholic
Guest
"post-baptismal denial" caused fervent Lutherans to condemn Anabaptists and shamefully to even kill
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Memaw
Guest
An unbaptized person may not be defined as a Heretic but they can still spread Heresy. God Bless, Memaw
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Brendan_64
Guest
You are probably correct there, but they would have to portray such views as being Christian views in order to be guilty of spreading heresy.
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ConfirmedAgnes
Guest
Oh! Cool that I found this thread, for I have been thinking about this topic a lot!
I have high respect for a friend of mine who is LCMS. Our beliefs are very similar, and we are able to talk about God and our beliefs with no issue whatsoever.
I would say out of the Protestant denominations I am familiar with, LCMS is probably my favorite.
I also have a friend who is LDS. I know that it’s not protestant, but I feel like bringing them up. Their theology is quite intriguing, and their high moral standards are great… but I have learned their beliefs are nothing like ours as Catholics, or even Christians. I would say I observe their Church with an interest.
Through research I have found the Anglicans interesting too. They are quite similar to us as Catholics.
And finally, I find the Eastern Orthodox (who I have seen here are not considered Protestant, but I know they’re not exactly the same thing as Catholics either) very interesting because they believe in Transubstantiation!! The real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist is so important, so any Church that believes in that would be one I have a super high respect for :bounce:
To all my brothers and sister in Christ:
My overall desire for the Protestants and Catholics would be for us to all be unified, but as long as you’re living out good Christian lives of kindness and love for God, I respect you too!
I have high respect for a friend of mine who is LCMS. Our beliefs are very similar, and we are able to talk about God and our beliefs with no issue whatsoever.
I would say out of the Protestant denominations I am familiar with, LCMS is probably my favorite.I also have a friend who is LDS. I know that it’s not protestant, but I feel like bringing them up. Their theology is quite intriguing, and their high moral standards are great… but I have learned their beliefs are nothing like ours as Catholics, or even Christians. I would say I observe their Church with an interest.
Through research I have found the Anglicans interesting too. They are quite similar to us as Catholics.
And finally, I find the Eastern Orthodox (who I have seen here are not considered Protestant, but I know they’re not exactly the same thing as Catholics either) very interesting because they believe in Transubstantiation!! The real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist is so important, so any Church that believes in that would be one I have a super high respect for :bounce:
To all my brothers and sister in Christ:
My overall desire for the Protestants and Catholics would be for us to all be unified, but as long as you’re living out good Christian lives of kindness and love for God, I respect you too!
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James82
Guest
I’m not even sure the term ‘Protestant’ is valid in any meaningful sense anymore.
It would follow that:
In order to be a ‘Protestant’ in the doctrinal sense would mean that person or body would have to protest some element of Church teaching, or disregard it entirely. This would be sin.
We know, however, that one cannot sin in ignorance. One must have all their faculties about them and make a fully conscious choice to disregard or rebel against a revealed truth. This is in the CCC.
We also know that, as it stands in the 21st century and the last few centuries leading up to this point, that there are many Christians outside of the Church who have never known her teachings…full stop.
Ergo, what are they protesting and how could they be protestant?
This is not to say that there is no individuals or groups outside of the Church that do not know of Her teachings and rebel against them. I know of Free Presbyterians who know the CCC better than most Catholics, but use it as a weapon to try and trip the faithful up.
It would follow that:
In order to be a ‘Protestant’ in the doctrinal sense would mean that person or body would have to protest some element of Church teaching, or disregard it entirely. This would be sin.
We know, however, that one cannot sin in ignorance. One must have all their faculties about them and make a fully conscious choice to disregard or rebel against a revealed truth. This is in the CCC.
We also know that, as it stands in the 21st century and the last few centuries leading up to this point, that there are many Christians outside of the Church who have never known her teachings…full stop.
Ergo, what are they protesting and how could they be protestant?
This is not to say that there is no individuals or groups outside of the Church that do not know of Her teachings and rebel against them. I know of Free Presbyterians who know the CCC better than most Catholics, but use it as a weapon to try and trip the faithful up.
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Proman
Guest
I would just like to comment on the legalistic part. The catholic church has historically been very legalistic. They would burn people alive for crying out loud, including John Wycliffe, and John Huss. They even attempted to burn Martian Luther but never were able. But the catholic church has become unlegalistic sadly. The Pope and Church has officially accepted homosexuality which is just sad. I’m not Catholics and I believe that Catholicism has its many faults but I do believe that if you believe Jesus was the Son of God and that he died and saved us all from our sin that your saved. Back to legalism though. I think that them burning people alive was wrong and too extreme but I think that they should not start accepting sin.
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Darryl_B
Guest
You should perhaps recant that John Wycliffe was burned alive, he wasn’t he was burned postumously after he had suffered a stroke and died of natural causes, he was exhumed.
I have always found it unusual those who claim the Catholic Church is legalistic, because when I examine the nature of the accusers church I usually find it is built on puritan legalism. How else can you sense legalism in others unless you have legalism within? It is though a blunt misinterpretation of compassion for crying out loud.
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