"Fear is the heart of love."

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Rach620 said:
No, it’s from a song by the band Death Cab for Cutie (I’ve heard it myself), and is definitely NOT representative of the teachings of the Catholic Faith.
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Yes I realize that, I was actually using a bit of dry humor, but I realize now it was a bit too sarcastic.
 
troubled_soul said:
What I meant by my quote is in regards to something like when nuns physically punished their students. The nuns set fear in their students so the students would show love for them.
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The nuns are mistaken that “love” can be imposed. The use of fear is not a good way of showing love. It is instead, “out of love, respect rather than fear.” Demonstrate concern not instill fear.

Physical punishment is not even promoted by the Church as Christ said, “If any of you did not sin, let him cast the first stone.”
 
geekborj said:
The nuns are mistaken that “love” can be imposed. The use of fear is not a good way of showing love. It is instead, “out of love, respect rather than fear.” Demonstrate concern not instill fear.

Physical punishment is not even promoted by the Church as Christ said, “If any of you did not sin, let him cast the first stone.”
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I think it might do well to re-read this thread, and specifically quote where you think puzzleannie and others were wrong. In response to the first part, I would merely copy her post.

As for the second part, you’re completely mis-quoting this Bible verse. Jesus was referring to the people judging other people. Again, perhaps reread John 8 and see what you get from it. It’s definitely not in any way talking about child rearing. Children must be taught the rules, and it is through love that they must be punished in some cases, to stop the behavior and give them the chance to live a more virtuous life, instead of not correction bad behavior, and allowing them to grow up troubled and pained in the depths of sin far off the narrow path of God, that could have possibly been avoided by better child-rearing in early years. Which is more loving, to save them from a sore bottom or save them from a sore life.

Much peace and understanding to you.
 
Just, because a nun says something (just for the sake of arguement I’ll agree what this nun said is true) it doesn’t mean it has an imprimatur on it.
 
jman507 said:
Just, because a nun says something (just for the sake of arguement I’ll agree what this nun said is true) it doesn’t mean it has an imprimatur on it.
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Imprimatur – by the Church? or because the child’s parent’s may have differing beliefs? or something else?

If by imprimatur, you are referring to the Church – Why would this necessarily matter? Just because someone is not perfect (without error) doesn’t mean they shouldn’t teach. After all, we (as imperfect laypeople) are even instructed to admonish the sinners and instruct the ignorant outside the realm of imprimatur, as they are spiritual works of mercy. In this world, we deal with imperfections in every person.

Also keep in mind, I’m no advocate of dictatorship/authoritarian leadership. A nun as a teacher is no different. While I have personally found that stern discipline (or lack thereof) can bring great reward (or consequence), I also know from military experience the necessity of opening the lines of communication and encouraging open questions and open door policies without reprimand. When lines of communication are opened, many “errors” can be addressed and corrected through parents and students, and the Church.
 
nick_aksureh said:
Imprimatur – by the Church? or because the child’s parent’s may have differing beliefs? or something else?
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Imprimatur means (I think), “let it be printed”–it is the approval of a bishop for a particular work to be printed because it contains no doctrinal errors.

jman507 was saying that merely because a nun says a thing, does not mean they speak for the Church, or infallibly.

And people wonder why so many Catholics are a titch anti-clerical.
 
Fear of the Lord is not fear that He will harm us or fear that we might experience when we have done wrong and are awaiting the consequnces. Fear of the Lord is fear that you’ll lose Him, that you’ll displease Him so much He sets His face against you. If you’ve been in a loving relationship, you know how far you are willing to go to please that person, and how much it hurts you when you know you’ve done something that hurts them. That’s fear as it regards to love, and it is the heart of love because your fear of hurting them ensures that you are careful with that love, and that you don’t abuse the one who loves you.
 
troubled_soul said:
Does the quote “Fear is the heart of love.” correspond with Catholic teaching (on love)?
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It’s a misquotation of Saint Hilary:

**“Fear finds its heart in love.” **

It has nothing to do with nuns beating kids. On the contrary it is a reminder that hope is greater than fear, so much so that to fear God is to hope, and to hope is to be fearless. He was writing specificaly about this part of the bible…

Ps.128
[1] Blessed is every one who fears the LORD,
who walks in his ways!
[2] You shall eat the fruit of the labor of your hands;
you shall be happy, and it shall be well with you.
[3] Your wife will be like a fruitful vine
within your house;
your children will be like olive shoots
around your table.
[4] Lo, thus shall the man be blessed
who fears the LORD…
 
Fear is the heart of love is not quote from the bible or a religious thought but a philosophy about love. The fear is the fear of loosing that which you love. We do all the things we do when we are in love because we fear loosing them. Perhaps the bit about it being said by a nun was a fear about beingh out of the graces of God thereby lossing God which is why a nun would recognize it easier…but the basis or “heart” of love is the fear of being separated from that love or in the ultimate case of love causing harm or having a negitive impact on that which is loved.
 
troubled_soul said:
Does the quote “Fear is the heart of love.” correspond with Catholic teaching (on love)?

Thanks in advance
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Did you get that from Death Cab for Cutie’s “I Will Follow You Into The Dark”? That’s such a pretty song…

Anyways, Catholic teachings on love (for God), in general, vary. But one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is Fear of the Lord, so perhaps that may be a part of what you’re asking.

I apologize if this does not help.

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood
 
Ahem.

puts on her reading glasses and puts her hair in a bun, gets on her Teacher’s suit shirt and slacks and grey jacket, and comes to the front of the room

Main Entry: FEAR
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English fer, from Old English fǣr sudden danger; akin to Old High German fāra ambush and perhaps to Latin periculum attempt, peril, Greek peiran to attempt
Date: 12th century
1 a: an unpleasant often strong emotion caused by anticipation or awareness of danger b
(1): an instance of this emotion
(2): a state marked by this emotion
2: anxious concern : solicitude
3: profound reverence and awe especially toward God
4: reason for alarm : danger

The primary dictionary definition of the noun “fear” deals with being over-awed by something dangers or perilous.

What, then, does that do for “Fear of the Lord?”

First, how do we define God? He is all knowing, omnipotent, omnipresent, all just, and all loving. In the presence of God, a person such as Job felt total satisfaction with all the answers to his questions, for God’s presence instills wisdom.

He is also pure, where we are not. A human faced with the most powerful being there is, even a relatively innocent person, would feel awe-struck to the point of fear, for nobody can measure up.

Fear of the Lord, then, doesn’t mean being enslaved to a master who is brutal and will terrorize, but it means fearing one’s own faults in the presence of the Lord.

Put it another way. If you had just come home from a paintball tournement and as you walked in, you saw your mother talking to the President of the United States, with all his security guards and secretaries and so forth surrounding him, you’d have “fear” of the President. You wouldn’t feel like you could measure up, you’d be embarassed about the state of your clothing and your blue-and-green splotched face. You’d be afraid you’d look like a fool.

Fear of the Lord is the first step toward wisdom because it’s what tips you off to your faults and helps you to find your way beyond them. The Lord does drive out all fear, because through His mercy, we are able to unite our problems to the Cross and be forgiven for our sins.

This isn’t official (as far as I know); this is an English Lit student’s definition based on reasoning and understanding the word itself. So do look up on an official source, don’t use mine for an answer if someone else asks. I just like to look at words and how they’re used (or misused!).
 
Just my own two cents…I think we need to interpret that statement (“fear is the heart of love”) in the context of the Death Cab for Cutie song. (For reference, someone posted the lyrics above.)

The author of the song is speaking to the love of his life, apparently…he promises her that when she dies, if there is no God and no Heaven and no Hell, he will “follow her into the dark…” It’s beautiful insofar as it demonstrates his devotion towards this girl, his desire to spend eternity with her. But it also represents so much more than that. It represents the belief that he loves this girl more than God ever could (because God, in the song, has not created a Heaven for her). And it represents the fact that he loves her more than he loves God, too. And those things are dangerous…

Because apparently he doesn’t believe in God or Heaven; he believes there’s just darkness after death. And the only thing he has to cling to is this girl. And “clingy” is definitely the right word here. I mean, really? There will be “no one beside her when her soul embarks”? No family, no other friends or loved ones? The rest of eternity is just the two of them clinging desperately to one another in darkness? It seems to me he is taking one misguided nun’s statement as an excuse to project his own cynicism onto the Church. He is really the one who is afraid.

True, he may be afraid of Hell – he may be angry with a certain strand of Calvinist theology which tries to get people to love God based on a fear of Hell. And that would certainly be a twisted theology.

But he may also be afraid of Heaven – he may have in mind the cliched vision of angels and harps and everyone in a circle singing Kumbayaa in the clouds, which just doesn’t correspond to the depth of the intimacy he feels with this girl. Indeed, Jesus tells us there will be no marriage in Heaven; maybe he is afraid of that! Of sharing the girl he loves so much with God…

And so if fear is the heart of his love, then maybe he has more in common with this poor nun than he thinks… (I always wonder, whenever I listen to the song, whether the nun retreated to the consecrated life because a man once spurned her many years ago. And this made her sad and bitter enough to say a thing like “fear is the heart of love.” Just a guess. Although maybe that says more about me than about the author of the song!!)

Peace,
+AMDG+
 
japhy said:
I don’t think nuns who disciplined their students sought to instill fear (as in fright) of the nuns or of God in the students, but rather sought to remove inappropriate habits (no pun intended). God chastises and reproves those whom He loves.
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So,
To avoid Pragmatism…

There must be
Good punishment
And
Evil punishment?
 
tuviskazinai said:
Just my own two cents…I think we need to interpret that statement (“fear is the heart of love”) in the context of the Death Cab for Cutie song. (For reference, someone posted the lyrics above.)

The author of the song is speaking to the love of his life, apparently…he promises her that when she dies, if there is no God and no Heaven and no Hell, he will “follow her into the dark…” It’s beautiful insofar as it demonstrates his devotion towards this girl, his desire to spend eternity with her. But it also represents so much more than that. It represents the belief that he loves this girl more than God ever could (because God, in the song, has not created a Heaven for her). And it represents the fact that he loves her more than he loves God, too. And those things are dangerous…

Because apparently he doesn’t believe in God or Heaven; he believes there’s just darkness after death. And the only thing he has to cling to is this girl. And “clingy” is definitely the right word here. I mean, really? There will be “no one beside her when her soul embarks”? No family, no other friends or loved ones? The rest of eternity is just the two of them clinging desperately to one another in darkness? It seems to me he is taking one misguided nun’s statement as an excuse to project his own cynicism onto the Church. He is really the one who is afraid.

True, he may be afraid of Hell – he may be angry with a certain strand of Calvinist theology which tries to get people to love God based on a fear of Hell. And that would certainly be a twisted theology.

But he may also be afraid of Heaven – he may have in mind the cliched vision of angels and harps and everyone in a circle singing Kumbayaa in the clouds, which just doesn’t correspond to the depth of the intimacy he feels with this girl. Indeed, Jesus tells us there will be no marriage in Heaven; maybe he is afraid of that! Of sharing the girl he loves so much with God…

And so if fear is the heart of his love, then maybe he has more in common with this poor nun than he thinks… (I always wonder, whenever I listen to the song, whether the nun retreated to the consecrated life because a man once spurned her many years ago. And this made her sad and bitter enough to say a thing like “fear is the heart of love.” Just a guess. Although maybe that says more about me than about the author of the song!!)

Peace,
+AMDG+
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Interpretations of what happiness is
Determines how we will judge
What we should fear?
 
Let me just say…

Perfect Happiness
Is never fearing,
Including, never fearing the loss of Perfect Happiness,
(Or else, Perfect Happiness would not be perfect)

And if

Perfect Happiness is Perfect Love,

Then

Fear is not the heart of Perfect Love

But

Fear can be at the heart of imperfect love

Also,

If the goal of a good punishment
Is Perfect Happiness

Then

The goal of a good punishment
Is the extinction of fear.

And

The goal of an evil punishment
Is to perpetuate fear.
 
The quote does not mention God, it mentions love.

Fear is the heart of Love.

I understand that believers, equate God with Love, but as soon as they try and tie their understanding of God into this quote, they are missing the point.

I agree with this quote, whoever made it.

I fear, I will hurt another.

I fear, I will hurt myself.

I fear, I will do wrong

I fear, I will betray

I fear, I will make a mistake

I fear, I will not give enough.

My fear, is not based on a fear of retribution, on a spanking, or an eternity in Hell.

My fear, is not based on my reaction to “another” and what they may do to me nor is it based on pain I may suffer.

My fear is that I will do something wrong. I have the capacity for love and I have experienced it. Through my actions I may behave badly. My fear, is that I will leave Love behind.

Fear, is the heart of love.

I agree 😃
 
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