"Fear is the heart of love."

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Psychotheosophy said:
Why do you act lovingly, when you are sad?
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I’m looking for any principles we have in common,
and defined in common.

Maybe you can help me find these principles.
Maybe there is a process by which we can extend our agreement.
Maybe you are not interested.
 
jkiernan56 said:
What is your understanding of true FEAR OF THE LORD according to scripture? Do you think it only has to do with fear of hell or is there something more to it in your understanding?
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The “FEAR OF THE LORD” is nothing more than an euphemism describing those who believe in God. Those who are not believers will not fear God, and live their lives oblivious to the consequences of hell.
 
PEPCIS said:
The “FEAR OF THE LORD” is nothing more than an euphemism describing those who believe in God. Those who are not believers will not fear God, and live their lives oblivious to the consequences of hell.
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PEPCIS - I know that this is your understanding of “fear of the Lord.” You would do very well to listen to how Davidv in post #333 described it:

I believe “fear of the Lord” is more properly translated as **“in awe of His love for me”. **Any “fear” would be that of my doing or saying or thinking something that diminished that love, not because I will get punished for it. Particularly that given God’s mercy, there is hope that I won’t get what I truely deserve."

It couldn’t have been said better than this.
 
Psychotheosophy said:
Why do you act lovingly, when you are sad?
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In part, because of rules I was taught. Treat people a certain way, no matter what you feel. It’s a pattern of behavour you can be taught as a child. Imprints on my psyche, the conditioning of my very programable human brain.

It doesn’t make much sense, until it does.

And then, you just do it. You can’t do anything but. 🙂 It becomes who you are.
 
Christ said, “Suffer unto me the little children,” that is, endure with saintly patience, and love is patience, not fear. Perfect love casts out fear. The holy fear of God, that awe in realizing our total reliance on God’s perfect love, should inspire loving patience that is His chief legacy.
 
PEPCIS said:
The “FEAR OF THE LORD” is nothing more than an euphemism describing those who believe in God. Those who are not believers will not fear God, and live their lives oblivious to the consequences of hell.
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Any moral system, that is based on fear of suffering , is self-contradictory.
 
jkiernan56 said:
PEPCIS - I know that this is your understanding of “fear of the Lord.” You would do very well to listen to how Davidv in post #333 described it:
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I’m not sure why I would do well to “listen to” it, but I guess I must be doing well enough, because I read it already.
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Davidv:
I believe “fear of the Lord” is more properly translated as **“in awe of His love for me”. **Any “fear” would be that of my doing or saying or thinking something that diminished that love, not because I will get punished for it. Particularly that given God’s mercy, there is hope that I won’t get what I truely deserve."
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I didn’t personally answer David, because I happen to agree with his interpretation, and do not believe it to be in contradiction to the Word of God, or with what I stated.

Therefore, I stand by what I stated, that “FEAR OF THE LORD” is nothing more than an euphemism for describing those who believe in God.
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jkiernan56:
It couldn’t have been said better than this.
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I won’t argue over subjective criteria, but I will say that you’re blowing smoke. What I stated is nearly identical to what David stated.

[SIGN]He said: “Any “fear” would be that of my doing or saying or thinking something that diminished that love, not because I will get punished for it.”

I said: ““FEAR OF THE LORD” is nothing more than an euphemism for describing those who believe in God.”[/SIGN]

The difference between the two is limited to how far David went in describing what a believer who is one who fears the Lord would/should react to being a member of the elect of God. So, I am in total agreement with what he stated.

[SIGN]David said: “…not because I will get punished for it. Particularly that given God’s mercy, there is hope that I won’t get what I truely deserve.”

I said: “Those who are not believers will not fear God, and live their lives oblivious to the consequences of hell.”[/SIGN]

The difference between the two is the perspective. I wrote from the perspective of those who do not love (fear) the Lord, while David wrote from the perspective of those who live in the promise of hope. They are speaking of the same consequences, with differing results for those who love and fear God, and those who do not.

Don’t try to be always against me. You seem to always look for the negative, instead of just seeing that SOMETIMES, I am just looking from a differing point of view and discussing the exact same thing.
 
Dameedna said:
Any moral system, that is based on fear of suffering , is self-contradictory.
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Certainly, any moral system based on an emotion or a mental state would not be stable nor reliable. It would change with the wind or cease to exist when it is calm. 😦
 
Dameedna said:
In part, because of rules I was taught. Treat people a certain way, no matter what you feel. It’s a pattern of behavour you can be taught as a child. Imprints on my psyche, the conditioning of my very programable human brain.

It doesn’t make much sense, until it does.

And then, you just do it. You can’t do anything but. 🙂 It becomes who you are.
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I’m thinking about…
How we can define our relationship
So that neither one of us
Would feel attacked.
 
Dameedna said:
Any moral system, that is based on fear of suffering , is self-contradictory.
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In the Catholic perspective, man starts out, by virtue of his OS, at enmity with God and fearful of Him-not with a healthy fear, as in awe when in the presence of great superiority –but rather, according to the CCC,

**“They become afraid of the God of whom they have conceived a distorted image - that of a God jealous of his prerogatives.” **

This fear and mistrust was uncalled for and resulted in the separation from God-from love-which we can find in ourselves and the world in small ways and large, producing unspeakable evil at times. This enmity comes from man, not God, and is even referred to in scripture as a hatred of Him without reason.

On the other hand a fear of God which is like the awe one feels when looking up at or down from a great height is healthy. And a fear of justice, the recognition that good and evil exist, that wrong deserves to be righted and will be, and that compunction is a positive trait, can be included under the rubric of “wisdom”.

The Churchs’ purpose is to mend this rift between man and God, converting us from fear and mistrust to a progressively increasing love and trust in Him.
 
Psychotheosophy said:
I’m thinking about…
How we can define our relationship
So that neither one of us
Would feel attacked.
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I don’t think this is possible.
There is always the possibility of feeling attacked from either person.

But if we…
Dameedna said:
…Treat people a certain way (love), no matter what you feel…
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Then,

We can love people
Regardless of feeling fearful.

Therefore,

Fear can not be the heart of love.

(Sorry about posting in two parts)
 
Since our senses is limited to understand the knowledge of God, man interprets thing differently, the fear of the lord is an interpretation of a man who inspired by the spirit of the Lord.

A teacher tells his pupil with a loud voice, “You shall not have other teacher beside me!”

The kid may interpret his teacher with fear, and the kid may said “fearing the teacher is the beginning of knowledge.”

Hope that analogy help
 
tanama said:
…and the kid may said “fearing the teacher is the beginning of knowledge.”
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So,

Suffering has value…

If it rips us from our imperfect happiness
With which we conform,
So that we may have Perfect Happiness
With which we conform.
 
Psychotheosophy said:
I don’t think this is possible.
There is always the possibility of feeling attacked from either person.

But if we…

Then,

We can love people
Regardless of feeling fearful.

Therefore,

Fear can not be the heart of love.

(Sorry about posting in two parts)
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I don’t see how what you are saying, has much relation to what I was saying.

But that’s okay, we’ll agree to disagree 😃
 
fhansen said:
In the Catholic perspective, man starts out, by virtue of his OS, at enmity with God and fearful of Him-not with a healthy fear, as in awe when in the presence of great superiority –but rather, according to the CCC,

“They become afraid of the God of whom they have conceived a distorted image - that of a God jealous of his prerogatives.”

This fear and mistrust was uncalled for and resulted in the separation from God-from love-which we can find in ourselves and the world in small ways and large, producing unspeakable evil at times. This enmity comes from man, not God, and is even referred to in scripture as a hatred of Him without reason.

On the other hand a fear of God which is like the awe one feels when looking up at or down from a great height is healthy. And a fear of justice, the recognition that good and evil exist, that wrong deserves to be righted and will be, and that compunction is a positive trait, can be included under the rubric of “wisdom”.

The Churchs’ purpose is to mend this rift between man and God, converting us from fear and mistrust to a progressively increasing love and trust in Him.
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Okay.

How exactly does this address my quote?
 
Psychotheosophy said:
I’m thinking about…
How we can define our relationship
So that neither one of us
Would feel attacked.
Click to expand...
Sorry Dameenda.

I think I may have been misunderstood.
I didn’t think that you were attacking me.

From some of your other recent posts on other threads.
I thought you may have felt personally attacked by a lot of questions.
Some people have felt that way in the past with me.

But I have a difficult time not asking questions.

I don’t know you well enough.

I’m sorry for my presumption.
And
I’m sorry if my statements made you feel accused.
 
Dameedna said:
Okay.
How exactly does this address my quote?
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The God that mankind fears or has a distorted image of is pure love- love beyond imagination but love which is experiential nonetheless when in its’ presence. The only reason for fearing love would be if we want to reject or override it in favor of selfish agendas. Because love is always good, just, worthy, there can never be a reason to hate or mistrust it. If there’s no God worthy of our trust and obedience, then there’s no objective morality-we can choose to believe in the reality of love or not-and choose to live by it or not. Belief in the existence of God should compel us to love-but only as we come to see that it’s perfectly *just * for us to do so-and only as we come to learn that God’s been worthy of our faith and love all along. Gods’ commands to mankind are summed up most simply by,”Thou shalt love. It’s ironic-why should we even be in need of such a command? And yet we are.

The rift that Catholicism seeks to mend is the rift between man and Love.
 
ok first of all fear is the heart of love dnt make it so religion based. It comes from a song by an amzing group called Death cab for cutie, and the song itself is called i will follow you into the dark. The song itself is all about a guy chasing after his love and he is willing to go to any lengths to be with her so comes the line that this whole forum is based on. One of the verses in the song is,

In Catholic school as vicious as Roman rule
I got my knuckles bruised by a lady in black
And I held my tongue as she told me
“Son fear is the heart of love”
So I never went back

Fear is the heart of love just means that he is scared of what will happen and he doesnt know wat to do but given the advice by the nun he figuers out its worth the not knowing wats to come so he never went back. When someone is in love they do tend to b a little scared about wat willl happen and wats around the next corner and being sinful human beings we cant help but b worried and scared even though God tells us he will never give us more than we can handle. I think that anyone who is married or is currently in a relationship will understand that and if you get it and your not in a relationship kudos to you. So i am pretty sure it has nothing to do with the catholic teaching of love, but im not entirrely sure cuz im a WELS Lutheran
 
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