Fear of God Scriptures

[feed_me]

I don’t understand 1 thing in the Catholic Church, and I noticed it a lot. When the people that come up to the speaking stand read the scriptures. Why don’t they ever use the fear of God scriptures? Like they always talk about how God love you this, and chosen you for this, but what about the scriptures that talk about God removing King Saul from his kingship and sending a demon to tourment him. What about Jesus warning the people of what will happen if they don’t repent? The Egyptian plegues, God prophesing about what he will do to the disobediant childern of Isreal… the stuff that makes a person **** the pew and shake up the persons nerves, and really think hard about what they are doing wrong? Where is all that? I haven’t seen it in the church yet, or the other Catholic Churches that I go to. I think that with all the good scriptures that are being thrown around so much, it keeps the people blind to there own sins, and we need to do some shaking up.

 

[Justice_Mercy]

I think the scriptures used for mass are to encourage people (generally). The scriptures in the Liturgy of the Hours (which few people seem to pray these days) contains more of the types of passages that you are talking about. There is, of course, personal Bible devotion, which you appear to be doing

All of these are activities we should be doing - yet, as you know, fewer people do than should be (everyone).

Fear in the Bible is two-fold: It is a genuine fear and trembling before an awesome, Holy and mighty God. We should fear him in that sense, because we are sinful and unholy next to him. Fear also refers to reverence. We revere our loving and chastising Lord who knows what is best for us.

I do agree that people tend to avoid such things in scripture or are baffled about them. Your willingness and desire to hear and meditate upon the whole council found in God’s written word is commendable

 

[Heuchler]

The Catholic church does use these scriptures. However, the Church cycles through the scriptures in a way so that in three years time the whole of the Bible is heard if one goes to mass each day. So, the problem is probably that most Catholics don’t go to mass daily and would miss out on at least some of your examples. The problem may also be that the priest doesn’t always focus on making the church feel guilty so these parts won’t be emphasized in the homily causing your memories to be affected and the fiercer parts of the Gospel will be played down in your mind.

But don’t worry, these passages are used, just probably not as often as every other month as they might be in certain protestant congregations causing the Bible to seem a little milder to the Catholic.

 

[JNdoum]

I don’t think anyone really needs shaking up. It seems more of a Puritan or some other form of “fire-and-brimstone” Protestant view of God. I think it has more to do with the fact that we Catholics believe more in guiding others to the truth and turning them from sin through love, and not so much in holding their sins over them and threatening them with damnation. However, yours is a good question. I am not entirely sure why we don’t have so many of those kinds of scripture, but I’m sure that there is a good reason.

 

[LouisianaChris]

The homily is to break open the scripture readings for the Mass. Scripture brings to God’s faithful hope. Therefore the homily should always be a message of hope and encourgement. There are appropriate times to preach the Fear of God but it is not at the celebration of the Mass.
Just my thoughts.

 

[feed_me]

Well, I also ask in conjustion to that question because I see alot of Catholics(or so called) keep going up to the Priest and recieving the host, even though when they leave they try to get the sinner of the year award, and it keeps on doing this over and over. :banghead:

I mean this is pure sacriledge that they do, and they think it is fine or something like that.
I mean… I give up(I wish there was smiley for this).

If I ever become a priest… watch out :banghead:

 

[fred_conty]

Fear loses out with time. Love stays and is more inducive.

It means more to us. We don’t want to lose love.

Seeing Jesus on the cross suffering moves the hard heart to affection and change.

Seeing the flames of suffering in hell scares the hard heart for the memories’ duration.

But it is good from time to time to remember how fragile we are as in the time of Lent.

Just a thought.

 

[feed_me]

I do very much agree with you on love doing its job, but sometimes it has to be tough love.

Fred, if the heart is so harden the people wont really care, I see this all the time.

Heuchler, I do see now on the scriptures that are all used, but the majority of people that go to daily mass are the old folks and those people hear it. Those people are already at the end of there age, Its like saying Im going to be a sinner, and clean myself up when Im old. The majority of people that go to mass and commit scralidge(constantly I might add) are those that need the tough love scriptures.

We do need to bring people to the mass, that is true with love, but we can’t let them offend the Lord when they are there. I mean the Priest should be telling those people that they shouldn’t take the host especially if they have sin on there hearts. Its no different then the traders doing business in the temple during Jesus’ day, or people vandelizing a place and leaving. You may not see it happen physically, but it is happening spiritually, and it offends the Lord.

 

[Stylites]

We do need to bring people to the mass, that is true with love, but we can’t let them offend the Lord when they are there. I mean the Priest should be telling those people that they shouldn’t take the host especially if they have sin on there hearts. Its no different then the traders doing business in the temple during Jesus’ day, or people vandelizing a place and leaving. You may not see it happen physically, but it is happening spiritually, and it offends the Lord.

Offends the Lord, kinda like sitting there judging the states of grace of others? Looking for the specks in other’s eyes?

 

[feed_me]

Thank you very much for that. I do agree with what you are saying. U are right, but I can’t help it if the Lord spirns my heart when I see this happening. I think that it would just help if Priests started to ask people to examin there heart before they come up to take the host. I havent taken the host in months( more than 6 to be exact), and I wont take the host untill I hit a confessional. And in fact I won’t take that host untill I feel that state of Grace. If I don’t feel it then my butt stays in that pew.

 

[fred_conty]

I do very much agree with you on love doing its job, but sometimes it has to be tough love.

Fred, if the heart is so harden the people wont really care, I see this all the time.

Heuchler, I do see now on the scriptures that are all used, but the majority of people that go to daily mass are the old folks and those people hear it. Those people are already at the end of there age, Its like saying Im going to be a sinner, and clean myself up when Im old. The majority of people that go to mass and commit scralidge(constantly I might add) are those that need the tough love scriptures.

We do need to bring people to the mass, that is true with love, but we can’t let them offend the Lord when they are there. I mean the Priest should be telling those people that they shouldn’t take the host especially if they have sin on there hearts. Its no different then the traders doing business in the temple during Jesus’ day, or people vandelizing a place and leaving. You may not see it happen physically, but it is happening spiritually, and it offends the Lord.

I think that it would be a good thing to be reminded from time to time of the sacredness of receiving and reminded of the words of St. Paul, not to be guilty of taking the body of Christ unworthyly. Our pastor did that a few months ago.

But there will be some who will because they don’t want to sit in the pew alone when everyone else is going, since it is too conspicious. And some do not believe the presence anyway, for one reason or another, so why not go. Also at funerals, they wish to be united to their lost one and this seems to help them do that in some way, so they go, even tho it has the opposite effect.

I believe that if they had a better appreciation of the Mass they would come to believe in the presence and the beauty of it all, and then clean up for receiving the wonder of wonders.
Good ideas on this at Mass would do so much good for both the indifferent, unbelievers, and the pious. The whole center of our salvation is the Mass. It is the center of our existence.
The Alpha and the Omega. It has a beauty that could never be explained enough. For over the Mass is the star of bethlehem pointing to the place of our saviour. I do believe this is more of the answer. And the other is to pray for our brothers and sisters in our family.

O blood and water gushing forth from the heart of Jesus as a font of mercy for us, we trust in you.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[sacredcow]

The Catholic church does use these scriptures. However, the Church cycles through the scriptures in a way so that in three years time the whole of the Bible is heard if one goes to mass each day. So, the problem is probably that most Catholics don’t go to mass daily and would miss out on at least some of your examples. The problem may also be that the priest doesn’t always focus on making the church feel guilty so these parts won’t be emphasized in the homily causing your memories to be affected and the fiercer parts of the Gospel will be played down in your mind.

But don’t worry, these passages are used, just probably not as often as every other month as they might be in certain protestant congregations causing the Bible to seem a little milder to the Catholic.

This is not entirely accurate. On Sundays we hear about 57% of the Gospels and 40% of the New testament as a whole is heard. if you went 7 days a week for three years you would still only hear less than 2/3 of St. Paul’s letters. The Mass is not intended to be a Bible Study or a substitute for us reading our Bibles at home. If you do not read the Bible at home, you are missing huge parts of it. Prior to the new lectionary, those numbers were almost half.

regarding fear of God, when you look at the Greek words used, they do not connote terror or something like fear of a monster; rather, they connote a powerfully reverent awe, or a respect of the deepest order. The word “fear” itself only occurs 68 times in the New testament, while “love” appears 261. This is also probably why you are seeing more readings about love than fear.
The council of Trent made it very clear that confession made out of fear is imperfect as compared to one made out of love for God. Consider this:

"There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
1 John 4:17-19

Now in this verse, we see the use of the word fear in the sense of being afraid of something vs. that reverent awe. It’s an important distinction. In Hebrews we are taught that our enmity with God was ended by the Sacrifice of Christ, who died for us while we were still sinners. being “scared” of God is simply not part of the equation, because it never works and is imperfect.

regarding the percentages, just for your info here is a link to the lectionary stats I mentioned. Pretty interesting stuff.

catholic-resources.org/Lectionary/Statistics.htm

 

[JNdoum]

Thank you very much for that. I do agree with what you are saying. U are right, but I can’t help it if the Lord spirns my heart when I see this happening. I think that it would just help if Priests started to ask people to examin there heart before they come up to take the host. I havent taken the host in months( more than 6 to be exact), and I wont take the host untill I hit a confessional. And in fact I won’t take that host untill I feel that state of Grace. If I don’t feel it then my butt stays in that pew.

That’s not necessarily good either. While it is good to examine one’s state of grace before one takes communion, one shouldn’t wait for a “feeling” of grace. God isn’t going to shoot you down a feeling of holiness every time you take communion, because feelings are not that important. Receiving Christ, however, is vital to your spiritual health. As long as you have no mortal sins on your conscious, and you are in the mindset of receiving God, then you should take communion.

 

[asia53]

The Catholic church does use these scriptures. However, the Church cycles through the scriptures in a way so that in three years time the whole of the Bible is heard if one goes to mass each day. So, the problem is probably that most Catholics don’t go to mass daily and would miss out on at least some of your examples.

Exactly!

I’m a reader for my parish. On January 29th, this was one of the Scripture passages I read:

Reading 1 Dt 18:15-20

Moses spoke to all the people, saying:
“A prophet like me will the LORD, your God, raise up for you
from among your own kin;
to him you shall listen.
This is exactly what you requested of the LORD, your God, at Horeb
on the day of the assembly, when you said,
‘Let us not again hear the voice of the LORD, our God,
nor see this great fire any more, lest we die.’
And the LORD said to me, ‘This was well said.
I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their kin,
and will put my words into his mouth;
he shall tell them all that I command him.
Whoever will not listen to my words which he speaks in my name,
I myself will make him answer for it.
But if a prophet presumes to speak in my name
an oracle that I have not commanded him to speak,
or speaks in the name of other gods, he shall die.’”

I think, the warning is pretty clear, and sounds omnious.

 

[feed_me]

That is true, thank you, but I just keep hearing the same thing over and over again. Can we hear about King Sauls torment, King Davids adulty, Samson, Savior of the jews, Ezekiels’ destruction of Tyre, from Cyrus the Greats’ bombardment to the last blow by Alexander the Great, (there is something to be learned from that btw). I’m not saying that we need to go all fire and brimstone on people, but we need to hear some other stuff from the bad side so we learn more from it, to hear it from the Priests pov, and hear what he says. I don’t get it. It’s the same stuff.

@Fred and scaredcow(like the name btw), that is right, if you use fire and brimstone to bring in the masses, that is against a persons will, and will see later on that they were used for somebody elses gain, and they will be driven away, or walk away altogether, and or bit the hand that feeds them. Bad thing to do. We do need to bring people to Christ, or bring them back, but we can’t push it, use scare fear to do it, but we also need to remind them that this is how the Lord operates, this is what he is please by, and why you should not do this, to show respect.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

The person doing the reading isn’t choosing the scriptures. There is a three year cycle for Sunday readings that has been in place for about 50 years. There is another cycle for daily Mass readings. The Old Testament readings(1st reading) may indeed include the passages you are looking for – you can look them up in a lectionary.

Catholics can always read the Bible on their own and learn about those passages. Perhaps if you know of a good study on Kings, you can ask your pastor about putting together a Bible study.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Thank you very much for that. I do agree with what you are saying. U are right, but I can’t help it if the Lord spirns my heart when I see this happening. I think that it would just help if Priests started to ask people to examin there heart before they come up to take the host. I havent taken the host in months( more than 6 to be exact), and I wont take the host untill I hit a confessional. And in fact I won’t take that host untill I feel that state of Grace. If I don’t feel it then my butt stays in that pew.

You should be able to get to confession more often that once every six months. Ask your priest for an appointment if you can make the scheduled times. Or check out the schedules at other parishes. If you are conscious of mortal sin, you should seek out confession as soon as possoible. If you are speaking of venial sin, there are other ways to have that forgiven - including by receiving communion.

While at Mass, don’t focus so much on other people. Sit up near the front and focus only on Christ at the altar. You will be better off for it.

 

[feed_me]

Thank you very much for that advice, and I am conscious of mortal sin, and I don’t take confession that much because I don’t like being a hypocrate, and show up to confession, only later to return to that same sin… 2 Peter 2 22 What is expressed in the true proverb has happened to them, “The dog returns to its own vomit,” and "A bathed sow returns to wallowing in the mire. If I get stuck in an addiction, my confession of that sin becomes null if I do it again, because my mind is not use to the freedom from that addiction. My mind is still programed to act on that addiction. I like being able to show God that with prayer and his help that I can actually get some ground over that sin, so when I do show up to confession, I don’t actually do that sin, and show that I am actually working to improve that addiction.

 

[feed_me]

While at Mass, don’t focus so much on other people. Sit up near the front and focus only on Christ at the altar. You will be better off for it.

Now to continue, which I forgot to add above. I don’t focus on other people, Like I said in my earlier posts, I cannot help it if God spurns my heart to this problem. That spurning is something that I cannot control.