Feast of the Immaculate Conception - Gospel reading

[Corki]

The Mass I attended this morning was both the Mass for the local Catholic school and one of the parish Masses for the Holy Day. When it came time for the reading from the Gospel of Luke, instead of “full of grace,” Father said “very blessed”. I have heard “most highly favored” but not “very blessed”. The “full of grace” translation was the one in the missalette. During the same reading, instead of Mary responding “How can this be,since I have no relations with a man?”, Father read, “How is this possible since I am not married?”

Is this some “kid friendly” version from the Children’s lectionary?

 

[japhy]

instead of “full of grace,” Father said “very blessed”. … instead of Mary responding “How can this be,since I have no relations with a man?”, Father read, “How is this possible since I am not married?”

Perhaps it’s an older edition of the Lectionary (which is no longer fit for use since it had to be revised). Or maybe it is a “children’s Lectionary” (although I’ve never heard of one). I would have asked the priest.

 

[Phemie]

Perhaps it’s an older edition of the Lectionary (which is no longer fit for use since it had to be revised). Or maybe it is a “children’s Lectionary” (although I’ve never heard of one). I would have asked the priest.

There is a Children’s Lectionary, put out by Treehaus. We use it in our diocese and it sounds like the readings you’d find in that.

Sorry, the link only gets you to the main page. Click on ‘publications’ → litugy with children -->Sunday Book of Readings.

 

[Phemie]

There is a Children’s Lectionary, put out by Treehaus. We use it in our diocese and it sounds like the readings you’d find in that.

Sorry, the link only gets you to the main page. Click on ‘publications’ → litugy with children -->Sunday Book of Readings.

Update: I checked the Year B Children’s Lectionary and it doesn’t even have readings for the Feast of the Immaculate Conception. I’ll have to wait until I get to the office tomorrow and check whether there is such in the Year A & C Lectionaries.

 

[Corki]

Update: I checked the Year B Children’s Lectionary and it doesn’t even have readings for the Feast of the Immaculate Conception. I’ll have to wait until I get to the office tomorrow and check whether there is such in the Year A & C Lectionaries.

Thanks. Are the Children’s lectionary readings onlne anywhere like the “regular” ones are?

I am not very familiar with the childrens’ lectionary. Do they use a particular Bible translation for the readings? Or are they translated uniquely for this purpose?

 

[Phemie]

Thanks. Are the Children’s lectionary readings onlne anywhere like the “regular” ones are?

I am not very familiar with the childrens’ lectionary. Do they use a particular Bible translation for the readings? Or are they translated uniquely for this purpose?

They’re dumbed down, er, simplified for children. I haven’t found them online but that doesn’t mean they’re not there somewhere.

 

[FrDavid96]

The Mass I attended this morning was both the Mass for the local Catholic school and one of the parish Masses for the Holy Day. When it came time for the reading from the Gospel of Luke, instead of “full of grace,” Father said “very blessed”. I have heard “most highly favored” but not “very blessed”. The “full of grace” translation was the one in the missalette. During the same reading, instead of Mary responding “How can this be,since I have no relations with a man?”, Father read, “How is this possible since I am not married?”

Is this some “kid friendly” version from the Children’s lectionary?

Corki,
The directory for Masses with Children allows for a fair amount of adaptation. Paraphrases of Scripture “should be avoided” which leads me to believe that they are not outright forbidden if there’s a true necessity. And it specifically allows that the readings may be taken from approved translations of scripture intended for children. If this were an adult Mass, I’d have a different view of things, but since it was a children’s Mass, it seems that the priest was exercising his judgment and acting within the norms. It seems that he decided “I have no relations with a man” would be confusing for children. I can certainly see that paraphrase as something which would not be a problem. It was that priest’s judgment call.

There are published lectionaries for Masses with Children (official, approved lectionaries not just someone’s pet project). Whether or not that’s what he was reading from, I don’t know.

 

[benedictgal]

There is one caveat that I’m surprised no one picked up. The OP indicated that this Mass was a combined parochial school and parish liturgy. Out of curiousity, who outnumbered who? Was it an equal split between adults and children or were there more of one group than the other?

I ask this because according to the Directory for Masses with Children, the following is applicable if there are more children than adults:

1. In addition to the Masses in which children take part with their parents and other family members (which are not always possible everywhere), Masses with children in which only a few adults take part are recommended, especially during the week. From the beginning of the Liturgical Reform it has been clear to everyone that some adaptations are necessary in these Masses. [18]

Such adaptations, but only those of a more general kind, will be considered later (nos. 38-54).

1. It is always necessary to keep in mind that these Eucharistic Celebrations must lead children toward the celebration of Mass with adults, especially in the Masses at which the Christian community must come together on Sundays. [19] Thus, apart from adaptations that are necessary because of the children’s age, the result should not be entirely special rites, markedly different from the Order of Mass celebrated with a congregation. [20] The purpose of the various elements should always correspond with what is said in the General Instruction of the Roman Missal on individual points, even if at times for pastoral reasons an absolute identity cannot be insisted upon.

However, if the adults outnumber the children, then, the directory notes this:

1. In many places parish Masses are celebrated, especially on Sundays and holy days, at which a good many children take part along with the large number of adults. On such occasions the witness of adult believers can have a great effect upon the children. Adults can in turn benefit spiritually from experiencing the part that the children have within the Christian community. The Christian spirit of the family is greatly fostered when children take part in these Masses together with their parents and other family members.

…17. Nevertheless, in Masses of this kind it is necessary to take great care that the children present do not feel neglected because of their inability to participate or to understand what happens and what is proclaimed in the celebration. Some account should be taken of their presence: for example, by speaking to them directly in the introductory comments (as at the beginning and the end of Mass) and at some point in the homily.

…18. It may also be very helpful to give some task to the children. They may, for example, bring forward the gifts or perform one or other of the songs of the Mass.

1. If the number of children is large, it may at times be suitable to plan the Mass so that it corresponds more closely to the needs of the children. In this case the homily should be directed to them but in such a way that adults may also benefit from it. Wherever the bishop permits, in addition to the adaptations already provided in the Order of the Mass, one or other of the particular adaptations described later in the Directory may be employed in a Mass celebrated with adults in which children also participate.

Since none of us were there, it would be for the OP to note which of the following instances occurred. Then, she could deduce the answer, dependent on the scenario.

 

[Corki]

There is one caveat that I’m surprised no one picked up. The OP indicated that this Mass was a combined parochial school and parish liturgy. Out of curiousity, who outnumbered who? Was it an equal split between adults and children or were there more of one group than the other?

Since none of us were there, it would be for the OP to note which of the following instances occurred. Then, she could deduce the answer, dependent on the scenario.

Interesting question. It was pretty even but I would say the adults were a bit more than half. Significantly more than half if you count the junior high students who are perfectly capable of understanding “standard” scripture translations (they have to read them for religion class). To be fair, I don’t know if Father expected so many adults. I have only been to one other Holy Day Mass there with the school kids and there weren’t as many adults at the first one.

I am not questioning the judgement of the pastor or the licitness of the content. I am sure this was “legit”. I was just wondering where the adaptions come from.

I have mixed feelings about the Children’s lectionary in general, and for school use in particular. How can you possibly adapt Scripture to meet the understanding of PK students while not sounding “babyish” to the Junior High? But that’s a topic for another thread.

 

[SMHW]

There is one caveat that I’m surprised no one picked up. The OP indicated that this Mass was a combined parochial school and parish liturgy. Out of curiousity, who outnumbered who? Was it an equal split between adults and children or were there more of one group than the other?
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Since none of us were there, it would be for the OP to note which of the following instances occurred. Then, she could deduce the answer, dependent on the scenario.

True, none of us but the OP were there… but in my experience parochial school liturgies usually result in a majority of children… if for no other reason than that the children take up most of the seats. But then it’s been a long time since I was at a parochial school and back then there was no school on Holy Days of Obligation. It seems that now parochial schools have decided that making Holy Days into school days is the best way to insure children actually go to Mass.

 

[benedictgal]

True, none of us but the OP were there… but in my experience parochial school liturgies usually result in a majority of children… if for no other reason than that the children take up most of the seats. But then it’s been a long time since I was at a parochial school and back then there was no school on Holy Days of Obligation. It seems that now parochial schools have decided that making Holy Days into school days is the best way to insure children actually go to Mass.

Howvever, according to the OP, this Mass was a combined parochial school and parish liturgy. In other words, the door was left open for parishioners to attend this Mass with the children. Therefore, as the OP noted in her follow-up post,it was nearly an even split.

oringinally posted by Corki

It was pretty even but I would say the adults were a bit more than half. Significantly more than half if you count the junior high students who are perfectly capable of understanding “standard” scripture translations (they have to read them for religion class). To be fair, I don’t know if Father expected so many adults. I have only been to one other Holy Day Mass there with the school kids and there weren’t as many adults at the first one.

I tried looking for the Lectionary for Masses with Children online and couldn’t find one. I may check at my parish to see the translation and how it reads. I realize that there are allowances for translations, but, what is so hard to understand about “hail, full of grace”, if that phrase is part of the Hail Mary which many of us learned how to recite at a very young age?

 

[Phemie]

I just went to dig through the several different translations I’ve collected over the years and have found the terms you were asking about in the “Contemporary English Version” translation from the American Bible Society.

It’s possible that the Children’s Lectionary uses this translation a lot since the CEV is specifically written for proclamation. The CEV itself is not an approved translation for use during Mass anywhere that I’m aware of, although it does carry the imprimatur of the Most Rev. Daniel E. Pilardzyk, President, NCCB, March 22, 1991 .