Fee for "Children's Liturgy of the Word"

[pianistclare]

I have 6 children, all in Catholic schools, my wife teaches in a Catholic school. Yes, we spend a great deal of time passing on our faith to our children. I’m not sure, however, what any of this has to do with my question regarding my friend’s church’s policy…

I thought you were asking for your own info.
I didn’t realize it was a friend’s situation.
She should ask her priest, in that case.
Kids who are well catechized don’t need to participate in CLOW.

 

[ELMitz]

I thought you were asking for your own info.
I didn’t realize it was a friend’s situation.
She should ask her priest, in that case.
Kids who are well catechized don’t need to participate in CLOW.

My original post is quite clear as to what the situation is and what information I am looking for.

I believe if the Priest were aware of some church teaching which forbade the practice of charing for CLotW participation, he would not allow it. If I’m not mistaken, she has expressed her concerns and been ignored, hence my question. If I’m wrong perhaps she can chime in – I believe she is lurking here as she does not have a registered account.

Many parents find that their and their children’s experiences during LotW are greatly enhanced by having the children dismissed for this section. We are talking about YOUNG kids usually about 4 years to 1st grade being led through an age appropriate lesson on the weekly readings, not macaroni art, skits and punch/cookies; kids that receive the Eucharist are expected to participate in the full liturgy including the LotW.

Your opinions regarding the suitability of CLOW are frankly not relevant to my question, namely: Is there any church teaching or law regarding charging money for participation in the sacred liturgy – which is what is happening in her parish.

Thank you for your interest.

 

[nodito]

OP, would you mind sharing which parish this is?

 

[Phemie]

I can’t tell you how often you have to tell people on parish or financial councils “we can’t charge for sacraments!” This sounds like another such occasion LoW for children is still Mass. You can’t charge for it.

 

[pianistclare]

My original post is quite clear as to what the situation is and what information I am looking for.

I believe if the Priest were aware of some church teaching which forbade the practice of charing for CLotW participation, he would not allow it. If I’m not mistaken, she has expressed her concerns and been ignored, hence my question. If I’m wrong perhaps she can chime in – I believe she is lurking here as she does not have a registered account.

Many parents find that their and their children’s experiences during LotW are greatly enhanced by having the children dismissed for this section. We are talking about YOUNG kids usually about 4 years to 1st grade being led through an age appropriate lesson on the weekly readings, not macaroni art, skits and punch/cookies; kids that receive the Eucharist are expected to participate in the full liturgy including the LotW.

Your opinions regarding the suitability of CLOW are frankly not relevant to my question, namely: Is there any church teaching or law regarding charging money for participation in the sacred liturgy – which is what is happening in her parish.

Thank you for your interest.

No, There cannot be a charge. It’s MASS. No fees. Period.
*And I DID say it was my opinion that CLOW was not great. *

 

[ELMitz]

I can’t tell you how often you have to tell people on parish or financial councils “we can’t charge for sacraments!” This sounds like another such occasion LoW for children is still Mass. You can’t charge for it.

I agree. I’m looking for the specific text in an official church document which discusses this issue.

 

[commenter]

We don’t dismiss. We offer the Parish school of religion. Faith Formation. Sunday School.
Its completely separate form the MASS which children should go to.
We do have tuition, but a family is never ever turned away because of hardship or inability to pay. Almost everybody does. Those that don’t, Father and I are the only ones who know. All the catechists and classroom aides get to have their children in classes for free, as a thank-you for their time and expertise.
If a parish thinks that pulling kids out of Mass is a good idea (I don’t, sorry) then they can figure a way in the budget to cover any necessary materials. But since the children are supposed to be reflecting on the Gospel message in kid-friendly language I don’t see even the need to purchase anything. Either the adults can explain the Gospel or they can’t. All you need is a Bible and good discussion.

I agree. There should be a clear distinction, Mass is Mass, babysitting is babysitting. I don’t believe in pulling children out of Mass, to bring them in the back, for “something like a Mass”. In our parish I was a leader for several years. We were supposed to use candles - I guess, because they lit candles besides the stand for readings during the “main” Mass, so they carried it over. I got rid of the candles after awhile. We even were required to set up a table, with a white cloth on it, which seems just a little bit “alterish” in hindsight. Ouch!

We used a book, I think published by Treehouse(?) which promoted a horizontal religion. For instance, we couldn’t talk about “God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit” but would invoke “God; Jesus; and the Spirit”. The whole slant (in the suggested “sermon” helps) was to make everyone comfortable, accept everybody, tolerance, etc.
I gradually learned to disregard the textbook and put in some Catholic content. The text of the Childrens Liturgy readings was ok, in a separate book. But I think the whole thing was brought in under a loophole. In theory, you could legally bring children to another location, do a “Liturgy of the Word” for them -* if you have a priest or deacon doing it*.
But we never did; and this was the only Mass those children would attend that weekend.
The Lectionary of Masses for Children, and Treehouse, never exactly acknowledged that
95% of the time laypeople were doing what only a priest or deacon should be doing, reading the gospel and preaching during a Sunday Mass. That’s how they can get an Imprimatur.

I stopped doing it, as I figured out what was going on.

Using the Liturgy of the word for Children for something during the week - as a learning exercise, not a substitute for their Sunday Mass - is fine. Use something besides “Treehouse”, or whatever.

 

[Phemie]

I agree. I’m looking for the specific text in an official church document which discusses this issue.

Since LoW for children is not in any official document (other than one sentence in the Directory on Masses with Children) I doubt that you will be able to find anything like that.

 

[pianistclare]

Since LoW for children is not in any official document (other than one sentence in the Directory on Masses with Children) I doubt that you will be able to find anything like that.

Correct. The closest you will find is:

For the administration of the sacraments the minister may not ask for anything beyond the offerings which are determined by the competent authority, and he must always ensure that the needy are not deprived of the help of the sacraments by reason of poverty (canon 848).
(taken from Canon Law)

CLOW likely does not fit into this category.

 

[Phemie]

Since LoW for children is not in any official document (other than one sentence in the Directory on Masses with Children) I doubt that you will be able to find anything like that.

In case you’re wondering, this is the only reference to what we’ve come to know as Children’s Liturgy of the Word. Does it sound as though they anticipated that some parishes would dismiss the children weekly at a particular Mass? And before anyone comments on the term “Homily”, it was the practice until recently to let seminarians, etc. do a homily. That was stopped but long after this 1973 document.17. Nevertheless, in Masses of this kind it is necessary to take great care that the children present do not feel neglected because of their inability to participate or to understand what happens and what is proclaimed in the celebration. Some account should be taken of their presence: for example, by speaking to them directly in the introductory comments (as at the beginning and the end of Mass) and at some point in the homily.

**Sometimes, moreover, if the place itself and the nature of the community permit, it will be appropriate to celebrate the Liturgy of the Word, including a homily, with the children in a separate, but not too distant, room. ** Then, before the Eucharistic Liturgy begins, the children are led to the place where the adults have meanwhile celebrated their own Liturgy of the Word.

 

[commenter]

In case you’re wondering, this is the only reference to what we’ve come to know as Children’s Liturgy of the Word. Does it sound as though they anticipated that some parishes would dismiss the children weekly at a particular Mass? And before anyone comments on the term “Homily”, it was the practice until recently to let seminarians, etc. do a homily. That was stopped but long after this 1973 document.17. Nevertheless, in Masses of this kind it is necessary to take great care that the children present do not feel neglected because of their inability to participate or to understand what happens and what is proclaimed in the celebration. Some account should be taken of their presence: for example, by speaking to them directly in the introductory comments (as at the beginning and the end of Mass) and at some point in the homily.

**Sometimes, moreover, if the place itself and the nature of the community permit, it will be appropriate to celebrate the Liturgy of the Word, including a homily, with the children in a separate, but not too distant, room. ** Then, before the Eucharistic Liturgy begins, the children are led to the place where the adults have meanwhile celebrated their own Liturgy of the Word.

More advanced “seminarians” were once considered clerics, at some level, though formal lower orders have been eliminated. Some seminarians today are ordained deacons, of course. In any event, there was a connection between Holy Orders and proclamation of the gospel/preaching at Mass. That has been lost the way Childrens Liturgy is usually done. I am not sure why the children were asked to stand during the Gospel. They wouldn’t do that in religious ed class. This does not support vocations to the priesthood.

In the quoted section, about the Liturgy of the Word in a separate room, it is not specified who exactly would be doing this. (A priest or deacon? Or anyone?)

In my parish, they originally intended it for children under, say, 10, but since we weren’t getting enough kids, they urged children up to 8th grade. I can easily see how this could be abused, to extend to high school youth. Think “Nose of the Camel”.

 

[Phemie]

In the quoted section, about the Liturgy of the Word in a separate room, it is not specified who exactly would be doing this. (A priest or deacon? Or anyone?)

In my parish, they originally intended it for children under, say, 10, but since we weren’t getting enough kids, they urged children up to 8th grade. I can easily see how this could be abused, to extend to high school youth. Think “Nose of the Camel”.

When the Canadian Bishops issued a document on this they said between the ages of 4 and 8 or up to First Communion. Before 4 it’s not possible to do a true Liturgy and after First Communion they are to stay with the adults.

They also recommended that this not happen frequently and that it be more based on the contents of a particular reading that might be more accessible in a simpler language.

They also made it clear that children should not be expected to go out and should not be made to do so even if this liturgy is used as part of their sacramental preparation because their proper place is in the assemblly with their family.