Feel disillusioned with traditional Catholicism

[lucybeebee]

For the past month or so, I’ve been feeling very disillusioned with traditional Catholicism. Or maybe a better way of putting it is that I’m disillusioned with the people in traditional Catholicism. The FSSP parish that I’ve been attending is being torn apart by disunity for about the last eight months or so. While I’d rather not get into the details, some parishioners, a good many of them affliated with the SSPX, have been causing trouble for the parish. Consequently, the FSSP is wearing out its welcome with the archdiocese (which isn’t too wild about the TLM anyway) and the order may be dismissed and the parish turned into a NO one. Second, I’m also feeling uncomfortable with some of the rhetoric coming from some traditional Catholics. Among some traditionalists, there seems to be a tendency to embrace questionable ideas such as “Lost Cause” Confederate mythology and slavery (I recall reading one memorable post on a blog that discussed the practicalities of how slavery could be reinstated). As a black person, I find myself very uncomfortable with this. I was particularly disturbed by the invective directed towards Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Regardless of what one thinks about him as a person, I don’t see how one can deny that he made a real difference in racial relations and was a significant person in American history. It would be like dismissing the work of the Founding Fathers because they owned slaves (and believe me, many people do). Our Lord said to judge a tree by its fruits, and quite frankly the fruits from traditional Catholicism aren’t looking too good to me right now. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not going to become Protestant or run to a charismatic parish or anything like that. But I’m finding going to my parish to be a miserable experience these days and I’m assailed with doubt and anxiety.

 

[Freshman88]

Just sounds like a bad parish with some bad apples.

I would try and focus on the liturgy, that’s why I attend. The parish I go to attracts Quebecois nationalists, but because I don’t speak French, they really can’t bug me too much.

Have you explained this to the priest? what does he think?

 

[mschrank]

Hi lucy,

I think perhaps the best thing for you to do is integrate yourself into a mainstream Parish that has the TLM. Also, there are some very reverent and beautiful Novus Ordo Masses out there, yes they can be found believe it or not. It’s not all like “chewing on cardboard” as some Priests call it. You might have to drive for an hour or two on Sunday.

Since Traditional Catholicism isn’t mainstream, you’re naturally going to find a few odd people mixed in. Some people, unfortunately, don’t really understand what the TLM is all about. They think that anything that is older is better, and that we need to “go back to” some certain period in history when everything was just lollypops and roses. For them, the TLM is like those fantasy role playing game meetings where people dress up and pretend they are wizards or dragon slayers- instead these people like to think they are living in centuries past with none of the evils and uncertainties that make modern life so difficult and complicated. Hence, their odd fascination for lost causes and bygone eras. It’s not about making them happen, but escaping into the idea of them.

If the fruit is bad, so is the tree. I’m not sure if FSSP is schismatic- is it? If the SSPX schismatics are involved, then the spirit of schism is surely there as well. That is not a good tree for sure.

 

[cam100]

Lucybeebee, remember that Our Lord warned us that there would be good and bad people in his Church, and we should just leave it to him to judge and seperate them in the end. I think every church has problem members, some more than others. It may be just our cross to bear.

I’ve noticed that different people have different reasons for being attracted to traditional Catholicism. Unfortunately, some people seem to be drawn to it simply because they think that anything old is better or they are conspiracy theorists who distrust any modern-day institution. These people often have odd ideas about following the past in other ways that have nothing to with Catholicism. I think you’ve encountered some of them at your parish.

What I’m trying to say is that not all traditional Catholics are crazy, and every parish has its problems. Try to keep your chin up and pray for peace within your parish.

 

[Tomster]

For the past month or so, I’ve been feeling very disillusioned with traditional Catholicism. Or maybe a better way of putting it is that I’m disillusioned with the people in traditional Catholicism. The FSSP parish that I’ve been attending is being torn apart by disunity for about the last eight months or so. While I’d rather not get into the details, some parishioners, a good many of them affliated with the SSPX, have been causing trouble for the parish. Consequently, the FSSP is wearing out its welcome with the archdiocese (which isn’t too wild about the TLM anyway) and the order may be dismissed and the parish turned into a NO one. Second, I’m also feeling uncomfortable with some of the rhetoric coming from some traditional Catholics. Among some traditionalists, there seems to be a tendency to embrace questionable ideas such as “Lost Cause” Confederate mythology and slavery (I recall reading one memorable post on a blog that discussed the practicalities of how slavery could be reinstated). As a black person, I find myself very uncomfortable with this. I was particularly disturbed by the invective directed towards Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Regardless of what one thinks about him as a person, I don’t see how one can deny that he made a real difference in racial relations and was a significant person in American history. It would be like dismissing the work of the Founding Fathers because they owned slaves (and believe me, many people do). Our Lord said to judge a tree by its fruits, and quite frankly the fruits from traditional Catholicism aren’t looking too good to me right now. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not going to become Protestant or run to a charismatic parish or anything like that. But I’m finding going to my parish to be a miserable experience these days and I’m assailed with doubt and anxiety.

lucybeebee,

Be of good cheer. Just a suggestion. Place all of this in the chalice at Holy Mass. Offer it to Our Lord and pray.

We, the people, who are signified by the water changed into wine, beg thee O God, to grant that “we may be made partakers of the divine nature of Him, who vouchsafed to become partaker of our human nature, namely Jesus Christ, our Lord.”

By the mixing of the water with the wine is signified the union of the people with Christ.

I will pray for unity in your parish.

God bless you abundantly,
Tomster

Your story is truly heartbreaking.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

If the fruit is bad, so is the tree. I’m not sure if FSSP is schismatic- is it? If the SSPX schismatics are involved, then the spirit of schism is surely there as well. That is not a good tree for sure.

No, the FSSP is in full union with Rome.

Good luck…

:heart:Blyss

 

[stmaria]

Since Traditional Catholicism isn’t mainstream, you’re naturally going to find a few odd people mixed in. Some people, unfortunately, don’t really understand what the TLM is all about. They think that anything that is older is better, and that we need to “go back to” some certain period in history when everything was just lollypops and roses.

For them, the TLM is like those fantasy role playing game meetings where people dress up and pretend they are wizards or dragon slayers- instead these people like to think they are living in centuries past with none of the evils and uncertainties that make modern life so difficult and complicated. Hence, their odd fascination for lost causes and bygone eras. It’s not about making them happen, but escaping into the idea of them.

 

[pnewton]

Run, if you need to for your spiritual good, and find a new parish. Or stay and fight againt the extremist for the sake of others like you, lest they too be put off by the problems. To make this decision, I would recommend you set an appointment with a priest or someone else who you trust spiritually, but is detached from the situation and see if you can’t set your mind at ease. That way, whatever you do, you can act with faith and confidence. In any case, I think we all here need to pray that you have wisdom and fortitude.

 

[parvenu74]

“Divide and conquer” has been a tool in Satan’s bag of tricks since the Garden of Eden. It only makes sense to find people with strong opinions at traditional chapels/parishes/communities. Don’t be disillusioned by what the vocal minority say… pray for them! It’s my personal opinion that traddies are particularly vulnerable to the sin of pride – and that convincing them of that is quite difficult. Satan has a gameplan for getting each and every one of us to hell, and if we’re “not like the rest of Catholics or men” then he’s going to try hooking us like he did with the proud Pharisee.

Try sticking it out… it is only through adversity that we advance in grace and virtue!

 

[368ofk]

Some people, unfortunately, don’t really understand what the TLM is all about…For them, the TLM is like those fantasy role playing game…

I would counter with the assertion that everyone (except, perhaps,infants and toddlers) who attends the Traditional Latin Mass is completely aware of “what it’s all about”. In fact, “what it’s all about” is precisely why they prefer the Mass of Ages to the Mass of Paul VI.

To suggest that the TLM naturally attracts people who regard it as some sort of Dungeons & Dragons fantasy game is not only degrading and offensive, but it is completely absurd.

I’m curious where you get your information about the TLM, especially considering that you aren’t even sure if a prominent group such as the FSSP is schismatic or not.

 

[jj2011]

For the past month or so, I’ve been feeling very disillusioned with traditional Catholicism. Or maybe a better way of putting it is that I’m disillusioned with the people in traditional Catholicism. The FSSP parish that I’ve been attending is being torn apart by disunity for about the last eight months or so. While I’d rather not get into the details, some parishioners, a good many of them affliated with the SSPX, have been causing trouble for the parish. Consequently, the FSSP is wearing out its welcome with the archdiocese (which isn’t too wild about the TLM anyway) and the order may be dismissed and the parish turned into a NO one. Second, I’m also feeling uncomfortable with some of the rhetoric coming from some traditional Catholics. Among some traditionalists, there seems to be a tendency to embrace questionable ideas such as “Lost Cause” Confederate mythology and slavery (I recall reading one memorable post on a blog that discussed the practicalities of how slavery could be reinstated). As a black person, I find myself very uncomfortable with this.

I’m not black, but I too am uncomfortable with the foolish ideas you have described. Please don’t let these ignorant people upset you. Each traditional Mass is such a beautiful ‘re-presentation’ of the Cross and Resurrection that surely we can carry our cross, for people of the sort you describe are precisely that-- our cross.

I would point out that traditional catholics have some healthy traits, like a strong interest in subversive secret societies. Ironically the Confederacy that some of them admire was the work of a Luciferian secret society, the Knights of the Golden Circle.
There is interesting information here, although this site admires that organization…

knightsofthegoldencircle-kgc.com/books.htm

In short, I would encourage you not to let the foolish ideas of certain of your fellow catholics keep you from the wonderful encounter with Jesus and His mysteries which is the traditional Mass. Please, focus on His passion and resurrection, and tune out the nonsense you hear around you. Best wishes.

 

[mschrank]

You know, some of you really need to read what I write rather than listen to whatever flies into your head. Is english your first language?

“SOME PEOPLE…”

SOME.

How many is say, 2 out of 2000?

SOME.

Are you one of those “some” people? LOL.

 

[Genesis315]

There are good and bad apples in every Mass at every parish–most of us are a little bruised at least . The TLM for whatever reason does seem to attract a particular and rare breed of bad apple, while you’ll find a great diversity of bad apples elsewhere, and I think the uniqueness of that kind of apple which you don’t see everyday, especially not clustered together in one place, gives it the sense of greater magnitude than the same amount of more common and diversified bad apples in other parishes.

(This post has the potential to make no sense, so I apologize ahead of time ).

 

[Tedster]

Among some traditionalists, there seems to be a tendency to embrace questionable ideas such as “Lost Cause” Confederate mythology and slavery (I recall reading one memorable post on a blog that discussed the practicalities of how slavery could be reinstated).

I am sorry to hear that. I doubt that this is a “traditionalist” trait, but certainly not an FSSP quality . The FSSP parish in our diocese is nothing like that. I agree with mschrank, sounds like a bad tree with some bad apples.

As a black person, I find myself very uncomfortable with this. I was particularly disturbed by the invective directed towards Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Regardless of what one thinks about him as a person, I don’t see how one can deny that he made a real difference in racial relations and was a significant person in American history.

So very true!

Our Lord said to judge a tree by its fruits, and quite frankly the fruits from traditional Catholicism aren’t looking too good to me right now.

Once again, I doubt that this is a “traditionalist” trait.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not going to become Protestant or run to a charismatic parish or anything like that. But I’m finding going to my parish to be a miserable experience these days and I’m assailed with doubt and anxiety.

Are there any other parishes in your area? Try them out. Sounds like this one isn’t where you need to be, or for that matter, where anyone else needs to be either!

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

There are good and bad apples in every Mass at every parish–most of us are a little bruised at least . The TLM for whatever reason does seem to attract a particular and rare breed of bad apple, while you’ll find a great diversity of bad apples elsewhere, and I think the uniqueness of that kind of apple which you don’t see everyday, especially not clustered together in one place, gives it the sense of greater magnitude than the same amount of more common and diversified bad apples in other parishes.

(This post has the potential to make no sense, so I apologize ahead of time ).

What kind of “bad apple” are you saying the TLM attracts? That is quite a generaliztion…IMO. I have been going to a TLM for about a year and I would have to say they seem quite nice…and quite reverent. I contrast that to many I see at my NO parish…and reverence is not a word I would use.

:heart:Blyss

 

[stmaria]

You know, some of you really need to read what I write rather than listen to whatever flies into your head. Is english your first language?

“SOME PEOPLE…”

SOME.

How many is say, 2 out of 2000?

SOME.

Are you one of those “some” people? LOL.

Sorry, but if only 2 out of 2,000 believe in what you wrote then it isn’t worth repeating.

You said, "For them, the TLM is like those fantasy role playing game meetings where people dress up and pretend they are wizards or dragon slayers- instead these people like to think they are living in centuries past with none of the evils and uncertainties that make modern life so difficult and complicated. Hence, their odd fascination for lost causes and bygone eras. It’s not about making them happen, but escaping into the idea of them.

Why not post what the other 1,998 believe?

 

[Tedster]

To suggest that the TLM naturally attracts people who regard it as some sort of Dungeons & Dragons fantasy game is not only degrading and offensive, but it is completely absurd.

Thank you!

 

[368ofk]

You know, some of you really need to read what I write rather than listen to whatever flies into your head. Is english your first language?

You’ve just spoken volumes to your discredit with this quote.

Enjoy your pot-stirring.

 

[Genesis315]

What kind of “bad apple” are you saying the TLM attracts? That is quite a generaliztion…IMO. I have been going to a TLM for about a year and I would have to say they seem quite nice…and quite reverent. I contrast that to many I see at my NO parish…and reverence is not a word I would use.

:heart:Blyss

I’m sorry I think you misunderstood what I said. I was defending the TLM, saying it doesn’t attract more bad apples, just a different kind that tends to make a more memorable impression.

I didn’t say they’re all bad apples and I said there are bad apples everywhere. Like I said they’re different But, the TLM does tend to attract the kind of types described by the OP (bitter conspiracy theorists, etc.) where you tend not to see them at other parishes. Instead you see other kinds of bad apples.

My point was, that every place has bad apples, but those that tend to go to the TLM (and as I said, it is definitely not all, not by a longshot–most people are as you describe) tend to stand out more in one’s mind than the usual types that you’re used to seeing everyday.

 

[THurifer2]

I was particularly disturbed by the invective directed towards Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Regardless of what one thinks about him as a person, I don’t see how one can deny that he made a real difference in racial relations and was a significant person in American history…

i am from a small town in a very white state. ( I never met a black person until college) and I find the remarks about Dr. King very disturbing…he was an absolutely amazing person.