Feeling discouraged

[hasikelee]

Don’t give up. What you’re feeling is normal for anyone when they are grappling with an issue, whether it is religious or not.

You mention reading West’s books. Have you attended one of his seminars? He gives his personal testimony and it sounds just like your post. He talks about how he discovered God’s teachings in the Church, but it took a long time for his heart to agree.

I at least hope that you are not using an oral contraceptive. You mention in your post that you consider them semi-permenant. Oral contraceptives are under the category of Hormonal Replacement Therapies (HRTs). These chemicals, usually synthetic forms of hormones, replace the body’s own hormones and have lasting effects, whether you become aware of that effect sooner such as infertility when trying to have a baby, or later, such as when you are diagnosed with ovarian cancer.

As for saying NFP and ABC are the same, I’m sure you’ve heard all the arguments and you aren’t here for debating. Please carefully research ABC from a doctor’s point of view. For example, Yasmine’s own website will legally tell you these are the risks of taking their birth control:

Adrenal failure
Renal failure
Bloating
Weight gain
Cravings and appetite changes
Hair loss on the scalp
Abdominal pain including cramping and sharp stabbing pain
Blurry vision
Cluster headaches, migraines
Loss of feeling in the left side of the body
Muscle fatigue in the left side of the body

Etc etc.

Also remember that even if you don’t think NFP is the right choice for you in terms of spacing children, it is still a perfectly good medical practice for YOUR health. Observing your body and paying attention to your feminine workings can help detect cancer and other issues very early. And you know what doctors say about early detection!

 

[Kevin42]

In the meantime, what do I do about it? I kind of feel like a second rate citizen or something because I disagree. Especially since some catholics can not only be really rude about it, but downright mean and hurtful.

Ok, so let me get this straight.

You have researched it, and are trying to understand the Church’s teaching to the best of the ability.

• You are not trying to persuade any others that the Church is wrong.
• You are not even mentioning to others that you don’t agree.
• Even though you cannot intellectually agree with what the Church teaches, you are still obeying the teachings.

If this is so, and you are continuing to try and form your conscience so that it is in agreement with Church teaching, I see absolutely no reason to feel bad about this. Let others say what they will-it is not your fault if you are unable to intellectually accept the Church’s teaching. You have still submitted yourself in obedience to her, and in doing so, have willed yourself to accept her teaching despite your intellectual disagreement. It sounds like a beautiful act of love and of faith that allows you to bend your will to Church teaching. I would say to be at peace, and continue to pray that the teaching of the Church will be fully revealed to you. “Not my will, but thine, be done.” In a way, you’re living those words .

 

[Delphinus85]

The twins were conceived during an infertile period, however because we were practicing NFP, we were open to the possibility of life and the Lord blessed us two more times, if we were using ABC, we wouldn’t have two wonderful boys in our lives.

See, this is where my beef is. I know someone, well, several someones, who got pregnant while using ABC. They very much welcomed the children, even though they were unintentional. I have never seen ahppier parents.

My husband and I both really want kids, and secretly hope every month my period won’t come. Granted, that would be a rather stressful thing on us at the moment since we can barely afford to feed ourselves, let alone a child. However, we know God would provide us with finances if he blessed us with a child. My friends using ABC for contraceptive purposes feel the same way. They merely see it as lowering their chance. It’s not that they just want to engage in endless sex. They just would prefer to postpone it for the time being. I don’t know any married couple on ABC just so they have have endless sex. It’s the same reason NFP couples track their cycle. Just lowers the chance of an unplanned pregnancy. It’s in no way unwanted, just not preferred. The idea that all ABC couples are addicted to sex is just so wrong. I don’t know anyone like that. Sex rarely has anything to do with it, just like with NFP couples. I had a conversation with a friend of mine on ABC (She’s protestant) and she says she uses ABC simply because she can rely on it. It’s not to have sex whenever she wants, and she even told me sex isn’t a regular occurance since they are both so busy with work and their baby (which was conceived despite the use of ABC).

I’m not trying to defend my opinion, or even convince anyone, this is just my…problem with the idea that contraception is always used for selfish sex, with the motive of endless pleasure.

I guess I am a motive kind of theologian. Obey both the spirit and letter of the law. Either you are open to kids or you aren’t. Given the failure rate of ABC it doesn’t mean all ABC couples are closed to life. I know very few who are. Maybe 1 out of the dozens I know. I know what the church says about respecting the natural cycle, I know the purpose of the marital act. It all makes sense to me, but it seems the rub is whether you are open to life or not, and to me NFP is just as open to life as ABC. Both is seeking the same end. Either both are wrong or none of them are.

I just know my husband and I are aware that every time we “embrace” a child is possible. We accept that. Same with my ABC friends. They all know a child is entirely possible every time they lay together. They accept it. I know very few who are doing anything and everything to avoid getting pregnant. They just want to tip the scales in favour of “not pregnant” for the time being. Both NFP and ABC couples do this whether with pills or with carefully monitoring temperature and discharge.

sigh the thing is…I hope my opnion changes. I just wish there was a place in the RCC for people who feel this way.

 

[Delphinus85]

Ok, so let me get this straight.

You have researched it, and are trying to understand the Church’s teaching to the best of the ability.

• You are not trying to persuade any others that the Church is wrong.
• You are not even mentioning to others that you don’t agree.
• Even though you cannot intellectually agree with what the Church teaches, you are still obeying the teachings.

If this is so, and you are continuing to try and form your conscience so that it is in agreement with Church teaching, I see absolutely no reason to feel bad about this. Let others say what they will-it is not your fault if you are unable to intellectually accept the Church’s teaching. You have still submitted yourself in obedience to her, and in doing so, have willed yourself to accept her teaching despite your intellectual disagreement. It sounds like a beautiful act of love and of faith that allows you to bend your will to Church teaching. I would say to be at peace, and continue to pray that the teaching of the Church will be fully revealed to you. “Not my will, but thine, be done.” In a way, you’re living those words .

thank you. this means a lot to me. I really do love the church. More than I can ever possible explain, and this disagreement causes me a lot of harm. It’s like if one was continually fighting with one’s spouse.

 

[Kevin42]

Just make your obedience a prayer every day, just as our Lord did. It is much more enjoyable then. I am in a horribly similar situation (except of course it is a completly different issue) so I can empathize with you. I’ll keep you in my prayers, and I hope that you don’t get discouraged .

 

[vocatio]

Welcome home Delphinus! Crossing the Tiber is a big step, but not the last. Some of this takes a while if you’re coming from a limited experience. I don’t profess to have the answers. What I do have is encouragement. You’re in a tough situation, but approach it with prayer and reflection.

We have no room to chastise anyone. We’ve been there…not what I really wanted…but never really crossed my mind until after we married. My wife was Protestant. But the more I discover about their beliefs the more I realize they withheld or neglected to inform me of core beliefs in their faith. This included a more extreme remedy with our last child. It really bothered me to the point of telling my wife that “you know if we ever become Catholic it would be an issue”. She was Protestant and I basically am not in control I discovered. I could have made a major fit over it but realizing her own fragile person I backed off hoping she’s not go through with her operation. This was about 2 1/2 years ago. Neither one of us were Catholic or at least I had rejected Catholicism altogether as apostate … But let me expand a little here. We were married for about 4 years before she became pregnant with our first child. I was scared and excited at the same time. I was also in school and we encountered serioius financial hardship over it to the point of having to seek medicaid, low point of my life…not being able to support my family. It took years to rise to the level we’re at now. In spite of the financial difficulties, I wanted more children and wanted them close together… The hardship was very difficult for her. True is that had I gone through the Catholic method of preparing for marriage pre-cana I’m not sure they’d allow us to marry for several reasons. However, I’m a man of my word. I made my bed and I stick to my promises. But she refused to get off ABC and it really hurt me… I couldn’t explain it anyother way at the time other than it felt like she was rejecting me. That made me very depressed and I ended up getting counseling for other reasons. Through the therapy I realized that I was hurt because she would not be open to life…my Catholic thinking was hidden deep within me. I realized this many times along our journey together.

But one day she said yes after I found a way to get her home from working. It was tight, but she allowed life and my life felt like it became meaningful again. Thank God it didn’t stop with the 2nd boy…because our last was a girl… DW was afraid for medical reasons after a close call giving birth. It scared me so much that I didn’t argue with her. I was hoping she’d just drop the idea. When I got to the hospital the next morning she was away from the room and already under having tubaligation… Stil hurts, because it closed off life… I cry in silence still over it. I’m 46 and she’s 40. She was born at her mom’s age of 42. We had plenty of time to give birth to more children. I always wanted more and keep the pain to myself now. But now that she’s Catholic and I’ve returned home where I should never have left, things are healing.

Reversing this is no guarantee to having more children…and it cost more than we have to spare. So we are happy with our three. But let me tell you the tax deductions are awsome…[remember the commercial for HR BLOCK]

 

[Jeanette_L]

I wanted to give you a word of encouragement, but from a general point of view and not specific to the contraceptive issue, because I think you are letting this one “issue” get in the way of your overall joy and peace in your faith.

I too am a recent convert to the Church. And although I am fully convinced that the Church is the true authority of the Christian body while we are on this earth, that doesn’t mean that I don’t struggle with some things, that I don’t find certain things difficult and uneasy, some things more than others. But I also recognize I am just a babe in the faith, I have a lot of growing to do, maturing.

But having been convinced overall of the historical and spiritual role of the Church in it’s Magisterial authority, I have decided that what I struggle with I will just defer to Her and her Head, which is Christ, and ask Him to give me the grace to rest in that submission.

I’m sure in time I will struggle less and I’m sure in time so will you. So don’t give up hope, don’t think you are all alone or a misfit or an outcast. That is sooooo not the case. Be patient with yourself and persevere in your faith.

God Bless,
Jeanette

 

[Delphinus85]

thanks you guys. I really do hope this gets worked out.I just know it’s really hard and I am having a hard time fitting in. heh. What do you do when people are spouting off about “those so-called “catholics” that don’t believe everything the church says?” I am finding this really hard. My faith was just about crushed by becoming catholic (You wouldn’t believe the problems this caused in my family, school, and friends) and now this litte issue is about to finish me off lol

 

[Jeanette_L]

thanks you guys. I really do hope this gets worked out.I just know it’s really hard and I am having a hard time fitting in. heh. What do you do when people are spouting off about “those so-called “catholics” that don’t believe everything the church says?” I am finding this really hard. My faith was just about crushed by becoming catholic (You wouldn’t believe the problems this caused in my family, school, and friends) and now this litte issue is about to finish me off lol

:console:

Don’t let the insensitivity and ignorance of a few numbskulls derail you in your faith!!! Stay away from those kinds of people if they are having this kind of affect on you, please!!! You don’t need this when you are so new and vulnerable.

I completely understand about the struggle with a devastated family when you converted, I know the heartache and joy combined on the Confirmation day and First Holy Communion!

You didn’t survive all of that to let some clodds ruin your faith for you now! Stay with people who will build you up and stear clear of the others until you are strong enough to withstand their opinions. :console:

 

[brigid12]

Ok, so let me get this straight.

You have researched it, and are trying to understand the Church’s teaching to the best of the ability.

• You are not trying to persuade any others that the Church is wrong.
• You are not even mentioning to others that you don’t agree.
• Even though you cannot intellectually agree with what the Church teaches, you are still obeying the teachings.

If this is so, and you are continuing to try and form your conscience so that it is in agreement with Church teaching, I see absolutely no reason to feel bad about this. Let others say what they will-it is not your fault if you are unable to intellectually accept the Church’s teaching. You have still submitted yourself in obedience to her, and in doing so, have willed yourself to accept her teaching despite your intellectual disagreement. It sounds like a beautiful act of love and of faith that allows you to bend your will to Church teaching. I would say to be at peace, and continue to pray that the teaching of the Church will be fully revealed to you. “Not my will, but thine, be done.” In a way, you’re living those words .

:console:
Welcome to being an intelligent, caring Catholic (full-fledged!). This is when the obedience to our Church is so hard. (I have difficulties, too but just with different things - due to age). This is also when our obedience becomes valuable! I’m a convert, too. It’s really hard sometimes, but His Passion was a lot harder. He said we were to take up our cross and follow Him. I’m (and it sounds like you are) really trying and it may be time to let Him do the rest - in His time. I really believe that it will be all worth it, too.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Delphinus:

This might be of no help at all. Obviously, you are young, and perhaps one has to be older, like me. When I was young, I, too, had a lot of trouble with being “right”. Seemed I needed to be right, otherwise I would be “wrong”. Seemed like a lot of the things the Church approves has, like NFP, was a slippery way to “square the circle”, to be “wrong” while claiming to be “right”. It sometimes seemed that the Church was in conspiracy to allow people to commit sin.

As an older person, I have come to think of it in a different way, and again, it might mean nothing to you.

One of the crucial things the Church provides is “safe harbors”. That’s not hypocrisy, it’s a way Jesus gave His Church to “let people off the hook”. We try, and we mean well, and yet, as Jesus said “even the just man falls seven times a day”. With that in mind, how can we really expect to be “right” in all that we do. But Jesus gave his Church a means to give people a “safe harbor”; the Sacrament of Penance. Maybe our contrition isn’t perfect. Maybe we know we’ll fall again, but it’s a way out. Without those “safe harbors”, our sins would carry us into the abyss, without fail. Jesus came, not like a policeman, to tell us we had better be “right all the time”, but to forgive. He gave the Church the power to declare “safe harbors”, period. He didn’t say “whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them, but only if they never sinned or if they were totally justified in sinning.” He just said “whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them”. That’s it. And why? So we would have a way out, safe harbors.

And so, it seemed to me, at a point, that the whole birth control issue is not so much a matter of whether I am perfect or whether I’m not. It’s not so much a matter of whether NFP can be abused. The real issue is whether my wife and I were always open to God’s will for us. But we’re people, and people don’t always act in accordance with God’s will, and we didn’t. But it’s important that we admit that we are not the arbiters of our own morality. It’s not so much that we’re obliged to never do anything sinful. God knows we’re going to do it “seven times a day”. It’s that we admit we did not follow His will for us; that we are penitent for our failures; that we accept forgiveness when His empowered church says we are forgiven, and that we at least try, even if we are persuaded we’re likely to fail some more.

God doesn’t expect perfection of us. If He did, only Jesus and Mary would ever be in heaven. He expects humility of us. And He expects earnest efforts.

Now, if you can accept what I have said, and being young, you’re not going to be too inclined to do it, because young people tend to think in absolutes. (No offense. I was young too once) But if you can at least think about it, just think about it as a sinner thinks about his or her relationship with God. It’s about admitting you can be wrong. Its about admitting that you are in need for forgiveness if, indeed, you are, according to the laws of God and His Church. It’s about humility and trying.

I know that’s not a crystal-clear answer. But it’s the best one I can give, and the older I get the more I think it might be the only one there is.

 

[brigid12]

Delphinus:

This might be of no help at all. Obviously, you are young, and perhaps one has to be older, like me. When I was young, I, too, had a lot of trouble with being “right”. Seemed I needed to be right, otherwise I would be “wrong”. Seemed like a lot of the things the Church approves has, like NFP, was a slippery way to “square the circle”, to be “wrong” while claiming to be “right”. It sometimes seemed that the Church was in conspiracy to allow people to commit sin.

As an older person, I have come to think of it in a different way, and again, it might mean nothing to you.

One of the crucial things the Church provides is “safe harbors”. That’s not hypocrisy, it’s a way Jesus gave His Church to “let people off the hook”. We try, and we mean well, and yet, as Jesus said “even the just man falls seven times a day”. With that in mind, how can we really expect to be “right” in all that we do. But Jesus gave his Church a means to give people a “safe harbor”; the Sacrament of Penance. Maybe our contrition isn’t perfect. Maybe we know we’ll fall again, but it’s a way out. Without those “safe harbors”, our sins would carry us into the abyss, without fail. Jesus came, not like a policeman, to tell us we had better be “right all the time”, but to forgive. He gave the Church the power to declare “safe harbors”, period. He didn’t say “whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them, but only if they never sinned or if they were totally justified in sinning.” He just said “whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them”. That’s it. And why? So we would have a way out, safe harbors.

And so, it seemed to me, at a point, that the whole birth control issue is not so much a matter of whether I am perfect or
whether I’m not. It’s not so much a matter of whether NFP can be abused. The real issue is whether my wife and I were always open to God’s will for us. But we’re people, and people don’t always act in accordance with God’s will, and we didn’t. But it’s important that we admit that we are not the arbiters of our own morality. It’s not so much that we’re obliged to never do anything sinful. God knows we’re going to do it “seven times a day”. It’s that we admit we did not follow His will for us; that we are penitent for our failures; that we accept forgiveness when His empowered church says we are forgiven, and that we at least try, even if we are persuaded we’re likely to fail some more.

God doesn’t expect perfection of us. If He did, only Jesus and Mary would ever be in heaven. He expects humility of us. And He expects earnest efforts.

Now, if you can accept what I have said, and being young, you’re not going to be too inclined to do it, because young people tend to think in absolutes. (No offense. I was young too once) But if you can at least think about it, just think about it as a sinner thinks about his or her relationship with God. It’s about admitting you can be wrong. Its about admitting that you are in need for forgiveness if, indeed, you are, according to the laws of God and His Church. It’s about humility and trying.

I know that’s not a crystal-clear answer. But it’s the best one I can give, and the older I get the more I think it might be the only one there is.

Ridgerunner,

That may be the best, most realistic description of the Church I’ve heard in a long time. I’d like to show this to my Episcopalian grandmother (97) if I could, ok?

 

[beckers]

See, this is where my beef is. I know someone, well, several someones, who got pregnant while using ABC. They very much welcomed the children, even though they were unintentional. I have never seen ahppier parents.

My husband and I both really want kids, and secretly hope every month my period won’t come. Granted, that would be a rather stressful thing on us at the moment since we can barely afford to feed ourselves, let alone a child. However, we know God would provide us with finances if he blessed us with a child. My friends using ABC for contraceptive purposes feel the same way. They merely see it as lowering their chance. It’s not that they just want to engage in endless sex. They just would prefer to postpone it for the time being. I don’t know any married couple on ABC just so they have have endless sex. It’s the same reason NFP couples track their cycle. Just lowers the chance of an unplanned pregnancy. It’s in no way unwanted, just not preferred. The idea that all ABC couples are addicted to sex is just so wrong. I don’t know anyone like that. Sex rarely has anything to do with it, just like with NFP couples. I had a conversation with a friend of mine on ABC (She’s protestant) and she says she uses ABC simply because she can rely on it. It’s not to have sex whenever she wants, and she even told me sex isn’t a regular occurance since they are both so busy with work and their baby (which was conceived despite the use of ABC).

I’m not trying to defend my opinion, or even convince anyone, this is just my…problem with the idea that contraception is always used for selfish sex, with the motive of endless pleasure.

I guess I am a motive kind of theologian. Obey both the spirit and letter of the law. Either you are open to kids or you aren’t. Given the failure rate of ABC it doesn’t mean all ABC couples are closed to life. I know very few who are. Maybe 1 out of the dozens I know. I know what the church says about respecting the natural cycle, I know the purpose of the marital act. It all makes sense to me, but it seems the rub is whether you are open to life or not, and to me NFP is just as open to life as ABC. Both is seeking the same end. Either both are wrong or none of them are.

I just know my husband and I are aware that every time we “embrace” a child is possible. We accept that. Same with my ABC friends. They all know a child is entirely possible every time they lay together. They accept it. I know very few who are doing anything and everything to avoid getting pregnant. They just want to tip the scales in favour of “not pregnant” for the time being. Both NFP and ABC couples do this whether with pills or with carefully monitoring temperature and discharge.

sigh the thing is…I hope my opnion changes. I just wish there was a place in the RCC for people who feel this way.

First- Your not a second rate catholic. You are good faithful catholic who even though they don’t completely understand the 'why" the church believes something that you stand behind her and don’t actively go against her teachings. Way to go!

Second: I know you don’t want a debate but the bolded comments made me think. Its seems that you haven’t full embraced that there is a huge different between getting pregnant using ABC and NFP.

A couple using BC may be using it to time childern and they may accept any “accidents” that come along but by the very fact that they are using BC they have made a concenise effort to make their bodies a hostile environment and are showing that they are not open to childen. If they were then they wouldn’t need BC. It’s not about lots sex anytime. Its about the disresepct of the body and the martial embrace because you are automatically putting a barrier up against God and each others loving act. Lots of women get pregant on BC and their bodies abort the child and some surive but the likely hood is more in favor of an abortion.

In NFP you don’t have that. If you have sex during a feritle time then you are fully aware that you can get pregnant. If your body miscarriages then that is God’s will not yours because you are taking a drug to pro-active make your body abort.

So the same action may happen but the intent and who controls that action is very different.

Now if you want to start a new thread about people who use NFP for permament birth control then you might be surprised how many people would agree with your position. I myself get mad at people when they boost they are using NFP for the wrong reasons. They are missing the whole point about being open to life. its frustrating and sometimes you have to correct them.

Peace of Christ be with you!

 

[Delphinus85]

I have discussed the abortive property with a doctor. It’s actually more due to neglect of the taker than the failure of the pill. The pill is designed to keep you from ovulating. If you miss a pill or don’t take it at the same time every day, you risk ovulation. That’s when the abortive property kicks in, not because the pill is poison, but because your endometium layer is thinned by the pill. This is why it is prescribed for women with debilitating endometriosis.

This bring me to my second point. The pill is allowed to treat medical illnessed, or for therapeutic reasons (easing the immense pain of endometriosis) as stated by Pope John Paul II. This leads me to believe that the pill, being used for the intention of medical treatment, is fine since the couple doesn’t wish to contracept, but rather to allow the woman with a problem to live a normal life. Maybe it’s a flaw in my philosophy, but I believe strongly that actions are generally NEVER wrong, it’s the intent. This is why killing is sometimes okay, it’s WHY it’s being done.

Bringing this to the NFP ABC debate (sigh)…a couple uses NFP to track when there is no egg available for fertilization. THey are purposefully only having sex with the woman’s body is going to be the most hostile for the sperm. An ABC couples simply controls when ovulation happens, most opt for “never.” They are purposefully having sex when the body is most hostile for the sperm.

sigh

I know I can’t convince anyone, and I don’t want to. I am just stating how it seems to me. Both NFP couples and ABC couples have the same intent. I don’t know many ABC couples, if any, that honestly want to make their body hostile, they are seeking to have an answer for sure whether or not they are ovulating. Every ABC couple I know are aware of the chance for miscarraige or abortion, and they all set timers to take their pill at the right time. They aren’t bad, selfish people. They have the same drive NFP couples do, they just wish to postpone pregnancy by not having sex when a woman is ovulating, they are just using medicine to make sure they know when she is or not. sigh I’m sorry. this topic really depresses me because I can’t see what everyone is talking about saying ABC couples are bad or selfish or closed to life. They are doing it with the same intent NFP couples are. They believe that they are just as open to life, if God chooses to make life he can whether they are using ABC or not. It just seems to me that both are contracepting the same way, one is just having more control. I’m not saying one is bad, or that both are bad. I just…I can’t see the logic.

As for what someone said about the church as a harbour. I see that. Trust me, it’s why I love the church so much. I can see if they were saying this to keep us “safe”. But…why is everything associated with sex so closely guarded as if it were evil? At one time the church said that sex was only allowed when a woman was fertile, then it didn’t matter, but now it’s okay to purposefully have sex when she’s not fertile. It seems like enough people complained after having 12 kids they made an allowance. It seems to me that logically either some forms of ABC should be okay to postpone pregnancy, or NFP needs to be thrown out too. After discussing with many doctors, biologically they are doing almost the same dang thing, as long as you do your part to take your medication right.

Again, I don’t say this to offend, or convince anyone, it’s just the way it appears to me. Maybe it’s different for me because i was very deep intoa church where a lot of people got married just for sex. I have had a weird variety of friends, half of them got pregnant and had BEAUTIFUL babies on the pill. I also have debilitating endometiosis, and the only option I have the to mask the horrific pain and misery with birth control until I can have children, or until my body normalizes (I was anorexic during puberty so I really screwed myself up…badly). If I could just stop having sex with my husband for 5 years I would, if only the pope hadn’t already said my use of ABC is fine. Maybe it’s because God is preserving our marriage from the “evil” of the contraception by keeping our hearts open to life. If I could get off the pill I would. I’ve looked into JPII institute and NFP only docs and those options are totally closed because of finances and distance. Maybe because of all of this I can’t see it. Or maybe God is preserving me from seeing it until I am off the pill to keep me from living in horror and guilt. Or to make sure my husband and I are still intimate.

Do you think that could be it? God just trying to keep me where I am for now so I don’t go crazy with guilt because I can’t do anything else about it? THe pope said it was okay to use it like I do…could God just be looking out for me? Especially be keeping my heart desiring to align with church teaching?

 

[Jeanette_L]

As for what someone said about the church as a harbour. I see that. Trust me, it’s why I love the church so much. I can see if they were saying this to keep us “safe”. But…why is everything associated with sex so closely guarded as if it were evil? At one time the church said that sex was only allowed when a woman was fertile, then it didn’t matter, but now it’s okay to purposefully have sex when she’s not fertile. It seems like enough people complained after having 12 kids they made an allowance. It seems to me that logically either some forms of ABC should be okay to postpone pregnancy, or NFP needs to be thrown out too. After discussing with many doctors, biologically they are doing almost the same dang thing, as long as you do your part to take your medication right.

Again, I don’t say this to offend, or convince anyone, it’s just the way it appears to me. Maybe it’s different for me because i was very deep intoa church where a lot of people got married just for sex. I have had a weird variety of friends, half of them got pregnant and had BEAUTIFUL babies on the pill. I also have debilitating endometiosis, and the only option I have the to mask the horrific pain and misery with birth control until I can have children, or until my body normalizes (I was anorexic during puberty so I really screwed myself up…badly). If I could just stop having sex with my husband for 5 years I would, if only the pope hadn’t already said my use of ABC is fine. Maybe it’s because God is preserving our marriage from the “evil” of the contraception by keeping our hearts open to life. If I could get off the pill I would. I’ve looked into JPII institute and NFP only docs and those options are totally closed because of finances and distance. Maybe because of all of this I can’t see it. Or maybe God is preserving me from seeing it until I am off the pill to keep me from living in horror and guilt. Or to make sure my husband and I are still intimate.

Do you think that could be it? God just trying to keep me where I am for now so I don’t go crazy with guilt because I can’t do anything else about it? THe pope said it was okay to use it like I do…could God just be looking out for me? Especially be keeping my heart desiring to align with church teaching?

Have you studied much of the Church’s history? It may help you gain some perspective as to how the Church deals with issues that arise in almost every century or two that have lasting impact throughout time. Sometimes we cannot see what’s right before our eyes, but with a historical perspective, things become clearer.

What the Church is battling in this place and in this time is the notion that life doesn’t matter, that it isn’t sacred and that it is up to us as individuals whether one should live and another should die. Think about this, I mean really think about what is at stake. There is a slippery slope that we have already slid halfway down and it started with the cultural acceptance of widespread birth control. There is a philosophy about the very nature of human life that drives this debate and the Church is on the right side of it. If we lose this battle in the hearts and minds of the faithful, all is lost in the culture morally.

Not only should you study the Church’s history, but study the history, at least in the last century, of birth control and the philosophy behind what has pushed this into widespread use by the masses.

I’m just trying to give you another way of looking at why the Church is so very careful about how she deals with issues that have grave consequences that extend way beyond those of just the individual marriage or family.

I pray that you will eventually find some peace in regards to this issue and that you will not let it rob you of the joy that you have found in coming home.

 

[hasikelee]

I have discussed the abortive property with a doctor. It’s actually more due to neglect of the taker than the failure of the pill. The pill is designed to keep you from ovulating. If you miss a pill or don’t take it at the same time every day, you risk ovulation. That’s when the abortive property kicks in, not because the pill is poison, but because your endometium layer is thinned by the pill.

Delphinus, combination oral contraceptives (COCs) contain several different hormones and have more than one purpose. COCs do not “just” stop you from ovulating.

Here are the 3 purposes of a COC:

1. Replace the hormonal pattern of a woman to stop ovulation “trick pregnancy.”
2. Tighten the uterus to prevent implantation of a human.
3. Kill sperm.

For example, two popular COCs are tri-low and Yasmin. They both contain a synthetic hormone specifically to tighten the lining of the uterus. This is a direct intent of the COC because the creators of the chemicals understand that breakthrough ovulation is a possibility.

Even if you take your pills 100% correctly, you can still ovulate. If, at the time of ovulation, you engage in sexual intercourse, you have the chance to conceive a human. Once that human journeys to the uterus, the human will be unable to attach to the uterus due to the synthetic hormone. The human will die of starvation and be expelled during your breakthrough bleeding.

Please take some time to review the available oral contraceptives. Research them through actual medical sites so that you can get some medical information and facts.

P.s. I wanted to add that some COCs such as Yasmin have been proven to cause birth defects. So if the human is able to implant, there is a high chance of severe birth defects.

Here is a beginner site at drugs.com:

drugs.com/yasmin.html

 

[blessedtoo]

Delphinus85.
I hope this doesn’t sound too harsh but you seem to be particularly preoccupied with what other people are thinking, feeling and doing. You’ve spent a great deal of time detailing your friends motives and intent for using ABC and extrapolating that most or ALL couples who use ABC have similar intent. We can’t know the motive behind another’s actions, even if they appear to be honest and forthcoming. And even if we do know, it is irrelevent. All that matters is what OUR intent is.

I’m not interested in debate either, but it seems that one factor you are overlooking here is the issue of cooperation and control. NFP, IMO, is a way of cooperating with God by using a method given to us through His Church to help us discern when He wishes to bless us with children. ABC, a method condemned by His Church, is a way of attempting to gain control over fertility independent of God. To be blunt, it is “thumbing one’s nose” at the cooperative effort to bring forth new life. Regardless of whether a pregnancy CAN occur while using ABC, the method itself is an attempt to take “control” of something that we are only participating in with God.

Just as we can’t know what is in the heart of those who practice ABC, nor can we know the intent of those who follow Church teaching and use NFP. I am certain there are some who are spiritually “closed” to full cooperation with God but it is not for us to judge their motives. We should not be concerned with how or why people manage NFP. Our only concern should be our relationship with God and our own intent.

Do not concern yourself with how others view you either. I doubt it’s a stretch to suggest that very few Catholics understand every last bit of moral theology behind Church teaching. Our issues may not always involve the “top fives”, but they may plague us nonetheless and make us feel less “Catholic” than we would like. But don’t you think that the Catholic who struggles to attend Sunday Mass every week, yet goes without fail, is received joyfully by the Lord? The person who thinks uncharitable thoughts of another but refrains from expressing them in obedience to God’s will must surely incur favor from the Lord. We are to seek to do His will always, whether we succeed or not. You are walking in obedience, even if you do not understand. This makes you every bit as “Catholic” as the rest of us.

 

[vocatio]

In Dr. Scott Hahn’s “Conversion Story” CD he talked about his wife, Kinberly Hahn, discovering the problems with contraception. I do not know for sure if she’s written about this subject, but I believe the CD mentions some of the history and resources for this issue. It wasn’t until recent years that even Protestants jumped on the band wagon to allow contraception. The Presbyterians only started that in the early 70’s and many other denominations did likewise around the same time. Maybe it was a reaction to avoid the problems with Roe vs Wade? It would be interesting to learn more…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=208087

This is a parallel thread on this board that seems to go together in my world. We all need to learn more to help others learn…I have problems too with NFP but I undestand a little but I’m willing to accept it… I initially wanted my wife and I to abstain from the marrital act during the times she is least likey to conceive… A self-imposed penance, but now I realize that we have been and are open to life. Fear is a real killer. “Be not afaid”…Pope John Paul the Great’s initial statemenst as Pope. This really means a lot to me now, more than ever since I’ve lived in fear for many years feeling like God was not taking care of us. If avoiding haivng children is because of the money or the body…then frankly you really need not be thinking about marriage. Sex is not a right for recreation, it is a celibration of God’s love and the gift of life. WE need to do away with these very worldly beliefs. Young people don’t get it as didn’t my generation. We grew up in the era of “if it feels good do it”. The reals sexual revolution began in the 1920’, not the 60’s. Sex was never meant to be a party for fun…its as stated. I obviously need to actually read “Theology of the Body”. But I do believe that we have become really twisted more and more as time passes, making it difficult to understand.