Feeling guilty because Roman Catholicism isn't working out for me

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I want to become Byzantine, but I feel kind of scared and guilty about it. I converted to Roman Catholicism - from Protestantism - in June after studying it, Orthodoxy, and “sacramental” Protestant sects for months. But I’m so stressed out and disappointed now that, being mentally ill, I’m sick and neurotic all the time. I feel empty inside, like there’s a yawning hole in my heart that typical Roman practice can’t fill. I don’t fit in at any of the parishes I can regularly reach, being a young man in a city where the parishes are primarily older people in a cultural milieu completely different than mine with the parishes barren of youth. I long for tradition and a sense of culture, continuity, identity, and community but the way the faith is practiced here is so simple, shallow, and sentimental and “Catholic identity” changes depending what neighborhood you’re in. Mass has become an occasion of sin for me because I hate the way the priests seem so flippant about it, I hate the horrible music that tries to force me to make the faith all about feeling nice, I hate feeling herded into effeminate, sentimental, saccharine spirituality, I hate the status quo of mediocrity (why is it normal to never use the propers, etc.), I hate the lack of our traditional expressions, I hate the lack of hearty teaching, I hate watching the priest replace the homily with a discussion on parish finances like it’s normal, I hate feeling like my intelligence and culture make me at best useless, at worst a potential troublemaker… because I’m starting to tilt toward an angry Traditionalism.

I take it all too personally, but the fact is that, regardless of whether I should put so many of my eggs in a parish basket, I’m lonely and poor and have no way to meet people or feel a sense of community without church because I can’t work or go to school. So I’m falling apart here, and I figured maybe I could become Byzantine because I feel at home at the local Byzantine parish. It has a more even distribution of ages, the people are from a different neighborhood that I like better, the Divine Liturgy doesn’t allow for so many inculturations and I like it better anyways because I feel like it’s reverent, traditional, beautiful, and allows me to actively worship - I prefer it to even the EF mass - I like the culture, the iconography, and most of all I prefer the spirituality and theology. It’s so positive and it gives me a sense of self-transcendence with all the emphasis on theosis and ascetic struggle. The legalities of the Roman tradition hurt for someone as insecure as me. But I feel so guilty for up and leaving without really attending a more traditional parish and seeing the Roman identity and continuity. But I think ultimately I don’t fit in, and my spiritual progress is suffering dearly due to all these issues. I feel completely comfortable when I consider myself Eastern and practice accordingly. I leave the Liturgy happy. I get to talk to people because the parish is smaller and they notice newcomers. I think the parish is beautiful, I don’t feel like a fish out of water, etc. But I still. feel. bad.

My main concern is a prideful one I must admit - I made something out of myself studying tons of Western theology over the years, and now I have no clue where to begin with the East. I keep telling myself I like the intellectualism and dogmatic precision and such but let’s face it - there’s a huge gulf between theology and praxis here. Lots of head knowledge, but I need something experiential. I don’t have a Christian “heart”, but I don’t want my heart to be like the Romans’ because their spirituality feels so feminine and sensual. So I kick and scream myself into an emotional mess. I just need to know where to go, what to read, to learn about Orthodoxy/Byzantine theology and praxis. Because compared to Protestantism and Roman Catholicism there is no where near as much detailed information available online. I’m afraid I won’t be able to learn about it. Plus I’d miss my sacramentals and devotions, and that makes me concerned about indulgences as well. (As you can see I’m trying to stop myself from acting like I don’t have to accept certain dogmas which shows that I’m not going to go all traditionalist once I transfer.)

I know it’s a lot of talk about me, me, me here but I have to preserve myself somehow because I feel so sick from all the stress. I feel so alone.
 
I want to become Byzantine, but I feel kind of scared and guilty about it. I converted to Roman Catholicism - from Protestantism - in June after studying it, Orthodoxy, and “sacramental” Protestant sects for months. But I’m so stressed out and disappointed now that, being mentally ill, I’m sick and neurotic all the time. I feel empty inside, like there’s a yawning hole in my heart that typical Roman practice can’t fill. I don’t fit in at any of the parishes I can regularly reach, being a young man in a city where the parishes are primarily older people in a cultural milieu completely different than mine with the parishes barren of youth. I long for tradition and a sense of culture, continuity, identity, and community but the way the faith is practiced here is so simple, shallow, and sentimental and “Catholic identity” changes depending what neighborhood you’re in. Mass has become an occasion of sin for me because I hate the way the priests seem so flippant about it, I hate the horrible music that tries to force me to make the faith all about feeling nice, I hate feeling herded into effeminate, sentimental, saccharine spirituality, I hate the status quo of mediocrity (why is it normal to never use the propers, etc.), I hate the lack of our traditional expressions, I hate the lack of hearty teaching, I hate watching the priest replace the homily with a discussion on parish finances like it’s normal, I hate feeling like my intelligence and culture make me at best useless, at worst a potential troublemaker… because I’m starting to tilt toward an angry Traditionalism.

I take it all too personally, but the fact is that, regardless of whether I should put so many of my eggs in a parish basket, I’m lonely and poor and have no way to meet people or feel a sense of community without church because I can’t work or go to school. So I’m falling apart here, and I figured maybe I could become Byzantine because I feel at home at the local Byzantine parish. It has a more even distribution of ages, the people are from a different neighborhood that I like better, the Divine Liturgy doesn’t allow for so many inculturations and I like it better anyways because I feel like it’s reverent, traditional, beautiful, and allows me to actively worship - I prefer it to even the EF mass - I like the culture, the iconography, and most of all I prefer the spirituality and theology. It’s so positive and it gives me a sense of self-transcendence with all the emphasis on theosis and ascetic struggle. The legalities of the Roman tradition hurt for someone as insecure as me. But I feel so guilty for up and leaving without really attending a more traditional parish and seeing the Roman identity and continuity. But I think ultimately I don’t fit in, and my spiritual progress is suffering dearly due to all these issues. I feel completely comfortable when I consider myself Eastern and practice accordingly. I leave the Liturgy happy. I get to talk to people because the parish is smaller and they notice newcomers. I think the parish is beautiful, I don’t feel like a fish out of water, etc. But I still. feel. bad.

My main concern is a prideful one I must admit - I made something out of myself studying tons of Western theology over the years, and now I have no clue where to begin with the East. I keep telling myself I like the intellectualism and dogmatic precision and such but let’s face it - there’s a huge gulf between theology and praxis here. Lots of head knowledge, but I need something experiential. I don’t have a Christian “heart”, but I don’t want my heart to be like the Romans’ because their spirituality feels so feminine and sensual. So I kick and scream myself into an emotional mess. I just need to know where to go, what to read, to learn about Orthodoxy/Byzantine theology and praxis. Because compared to Protestantism and Roman Catholicism there is no where near as much detailed information available online. I’m afraid I won’t be able to learn about it. Plus I’d miss my sacramentals and devotions, and that makes me concerned about indulgences as well. (As you can see I’m trying to stop myself from acting like I don’t have to accept certain dogmas which shows that I’m not going to go all traditionalist once I transfer.)

I know it’s a lot of talk about me, me, me here but I have to preserve myself somehow because I feel so sick from all the stress. I feel so alone.
If you are spiritually fed at the Byzantine parish then go there…it really is that simple. No need to make a big fuss about it…just start attending there regularly and do what you can to fit in.

Read what you can about Eastern theology band practice.

Weclome to the Byzantine Church!!
 
I think I;m starting to feel you too bro (or sis?)

I am a recent believer in the Catholic Church and not yet confirmed or confession or anything, but I find the parishes here very uninspiring. I feel extremely inspired by the mysteries of God, I need a mysterious and mystical celebration of such mysteries, I delight in the deep philosophies and mystery of God… I am starting to think Eastern Rite Catholicism is more suited to me as well, I fear that there are no such parishes in my town…
 
I always try and remind people of this: You can never make anything better by leaving it. You can only influence something positively by being a part of it.

You say that you are sick and can’t work or go to school. Is there any way you can get involved at your parish (or the orthodox one.) If you are unable to physically labor for them, could you instruct or help with the faith formation of others? Could you help start or promote a CCD class during mass? Could you spend time making rosaries for people at your parish to spread the devotion and save souls? Could you spend an hour in front of the Tabernacle daily to offer up your personal suffering and to pray for the conversion and health of others?

These are all ways that you may be able to physically and spiritually strengthen your community.

You should to talk to your current parish priest and get his advice. Try and make an appointment with him instead of catching him before or after Mass. He will understand your feelings and hopefully be able to give you some good counsel.

Either way, I’m going to spend some time in front of the Tabernacle for you today in hope that you get some relief not only from your anxiety but also that you find a parish where you feel at home and feel the presence of God.

I hope you have a wonderful day!
 
The Byzantine tradition may well be a better fit for you. I will caution you, however, that it sounds like a lot of what you’re describing sounds like deep-rooted personal problems and not the Latin tradition itself. If that’s the case then the Byzantine tradition won’t solve the problem; you will have the same emptiness inside you because it is something you carry with you, not something that is lacking in the Latin tradition per se.

I recommend seeking spiritual direction (and possibly medical help), not for the preference of Rites, but for the personal struggles you seem to have. If you simply switch to the Byzantine tradition without seeking help for these things you will eventually find yourself in the same position again. So do both, just don’t expect the Byzantine tradition to cure the emptiness you feel because that’s not it’s purpose (at least no more than any other tradition).

Best wishes to you, and you’re in my prayers!

Peace and God bless!
 
Is this where you’re going?

stnicks.org/

If so, keep going there! You don’t have to change rites to attend and be a part of that church.
 
WoundedIcon,

I hear what you are saying. For me it’s not a struggle with anger with the attitudes of others in the Church, but it’s a feeling of cynicism. Im praying to be healed of that.

I say with others, I think if you really feel drawn to the Byzantine Rite, then follow that. Our worship shouldn’t be an occasion of anger (or cynicism in my case) but of one of up lifting and healing.

God Bless.
 
I’ve been a Roman Catholic for about 95% of my life. No guilt here. God will not ask what tradition of faith you adhered to when you meet Him. If you are spiritually fed in the Byzantine Rite, then go for it.
 
I hope this doesn’t sound preachy or condescending woundedicon but in my honest opinion I feel like you are looking at things the wrong way? Attending Mass should never be about what you “get out of it”. We aren’t going to see what we can “get” from God. We go to see what we can “give”. I would strongly suggest speaking with your Parish Priest (before you make any decisions about church hopping again) and just explain what you don’t like about things but at the same time, ask about how you can be involved, as others have suggested. You know yourself more than I do anyways so I can’t suggest one thing over another since only you will know your limitations but even so, all the more reason to do what you can, when you can. Charity in the face of adversity. What a beautiful and inspiring thing. Let your love for Christ inspire you to get involved with the Church, as opposed to attending Mass for certain music or to reap spiritual gifts. Just my opinion though. I trust everything will work out in the end. God Bless!
 
All traditions and theology aside, what I’m really afraid of is being hurt. That’s why I freak out so much about not fitting in. I know you guys can’t do anything about it but pray, but I have PTSD and I’m extremely judgmental mainly because I feel like I’m going to be violated left and right by other people judging me. And we all know the stereotype about judgmental Christians, and for some reason that stereotype really sticks in my mind. I’m very different in many ways from practically everyone in these parishes, including the clergy. My culture is different than theirs, the way I express my faith is different, the way I act, dress, the music I listen to, even emotionally I feel like a stranger. I’m culturally closer to a college atheist than an elderly churchy individual or a kid reared in Catholic school and youth groups and bleh. I like the East most likely because I don’t see all the judgmental legal understanding of sin there. It’s therapeutic, and when I understand sin as a sickness it’s very easy to let myself and others off the hook. But when I understand it legally I have a very hard time being merciful when I have this understanding of God being angry at it. I just don’t understand what I’m doing… I mean it’s like God is eternal pissed off so why shouldn’t I be? Think about the sacrifice of the Mass with this mentality. It only gets worse. It’s like Jesus sacrificed Himself so the Father wouldn’t have to torch me. I know God’s not like that, but how do I get past this when in the OT God IS torching people. And since I’m made to feel like churchy people are how Christians are supposed to be, I feel like I’m hardly Christian and feel like God wants to torch ME.
 
I hope this doesn’t sound preachy or condescending woundedicon but in my honest opinion I feel like you are looking at things the wrong way? Attending Mass should never be about what you “get out of it”. We aren’t going to see what we can “get” from God. We go to see what we can “give”. I would strongly suggest speaking with your Parish Priest (before you make any decisions about church hopping again) and just explain what you don’t like about things but at the same time, ask about how you can be involved, as others have suggested. You know yourself more than I do anyways so I can’t suggest one thing over another since only you will know your limitations but even so, all the more reason to do what you can, when you can. Charity in the face of adversity. What a beautiful and inspiring thing. Let your love for Christ inspire you to get involved with the Church, as opposed to attending Mass for certain music or to reap spiritual gifts. Just my opinion though. I trust everything will work out in the end. God Bless!
What does God need that we need to give Him something? We attend Liturgy so that we may receive graces that we can have the strength to live in the Life of God. Why force ourselves in one tradition when it doesn’t speak to us? That is why there are many traditions for us to live by. Because we are imperfect and God is finding ways to get to us.

And yes, you do attend a Liturgy to reap spiritual gifts. Why wouldn’t you attend one for that? 🤷
 
First of all, for a better understanding of Mercy read less theology! 🙂

I think you’ve still got a lot of Protestant thinking in terms of God as an angry God. Think about the quote from the Bible about God desiring mercy and not sacrifice. What does that really say about who God is?

For a better understanding of Mercy, how about getting a copy of the Diary of St. Faustina? Pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy.

PTSD totally reinforces negative ideas about God, yourself and others. I have a hard time being around groups of people and the longer I’m there, the worse it can get. But as it gets hard, the more I know I need God to help me. It’s a cross, but it helps me to stay close to God.

There is a new series on EWTN about the spiritual exercises of St. Ignatius. You missed a bunch of episodes, but there are handouts on the website. I’ve found this series to be helpful. ewtn.com/series/shows/living-the-discerning-life/index.asp

Consolation, desolation, trials that come our way… it’s confusing, but God raised up St. Ignatius to show us a way though. God has raised up many saints to help us.

You’re not alone, Wounded Icon.
 
All traditions and theology aside, what I’m really afraid of is being hurt. That’s why I freak out so much about not fitting in. I know you guys can’t do anything about it but pray, but I have PTSD and I’m extremely judgmental mainly because I feel like I’m going to be violated left and right by other people judging me. And we all know the stereotype about judgmental Christians, and for some reason that stereotype really sticks in my mind. I’m very different in many ways from practically everyone in these parishes, including the clergy. My culture is different than theirs, the way I express my faith is different, the way I act, dress, the music I listen to, even emotionally I feel like a stranger. I’m culturally closer to a college atheist than an elderly churchy individual or a kid reared in Catholic school and youth groups and bleh. I like the East most likely because I don’t see all the judgmental legal understanding of sin there. It’s therapeutic, and when I understand sin as a sickness it’s very easy to let myself and others off the hook. But when I understand it legally I have a very hard time being merciful when I have this understanding of God being angry at it. I just don’t understand what I’m doing… I mean it’s like God is eternal pissed off so why shouldn’t I be? Think about the sacrifice of the Mass with this mentality. It only gets worse. It’s like Jesus sacrificed Himself so the Father wouldn’t have to torch me. I know God’s not like that, but how do I get past this when in the OT God IS torching people. And since I’m made to feel like churchy people are how Christians are supposed to be, I feel like I’m hardly Christian and feel like God wants to torch ME.
You have articulated well many of my own thoughts. Thank you. 🙂

I say go where you find healing. It’s a given that in this life we are and will continue to be wounded, by others, as well as our own attitudes. External and internally self-inflicted wounds come with living a very broken life in a very broken world.

Go where you find healing of those wounds, and strength to bare them.

I myself get cynical when I see so many, my self included, deciding to either inflict wounds on others, or to live with our self-inflicted wounds as if we dont have a choice to be healed.

I seek God the Divine Physician and Healer for all. Not God the Burn to Hell Judge for all.

You have articulated much that I want to reflect on now. Thank you, WoundedIcon.
 
I want to become Byzantine, but I feel kind of scared and guilty about it. I converted to Roman Catholicism - from Protestantism - in June after studying it, Orthodoxy, and “sacramental” Protestant sects for months. But I’m so stressed out and disappointed now that, being mentally ill, I’m sick and neurotic all the time. I feel empty inside, like there’s a yawning hole in my heart that typical Roman practice can’t fill. I don’t fit in at any of the parishes I can regularly reach, being a young man in a city where the parishes are primarily older people in a cultural milieu completely different than mine with the parishes barren of youth. I long for tradition and a sense of culture, continuity, identity, and community but the way the faith is practiced here is so simple, shallow, and sentimental and “Catholic identity” changes depending what neighborhood you’re in. Mass has become an occasion of sin for me because I hate the way the priests seem so flippant about it, I hate the horrible music that tries to force me to make the faith all about feeling nice, I hate feeling herded into effeminate, sentimental, saccharine spirituality, I hate the status quo of mediocrity (why is it normal to never use the propers, etc.), I hate the lack of our traditional expressions, I hate the lack of hearty teaching, I hate watching the priest replace the homily with a discussion on parish finances like it’s normal, I hate feeling like my intelligence and culture make me at best useless, at worst a potential troublemaker… because I’m starting to tilt toward an angry Traditionalism.

I take it all too personally, but the fact is that, regardless of whether I should put so many of my eggs in a parish basket, I’m lonely and poor and have no way to meet people or feel a sense of community without church because I can’t work or go to school. So I’m falling apart here, and I figured maybe I could become Byzantine because I feel at home at the local Byzantine parish. It has a more even distribution of ages, the people are from a different neighborhood that I like better, the Divine Liturgy doesn’t allow for so many inculturations and I like it better anyways because I feel like it’s reverent, traditional, beautiful, and allows me to actively worship - I prefer it to even the EF mass - I like the culture, the iconography, and most of all I prefer the spirituality and theology. It’s so positive and it gives me a sense of self-transcendence with all the emphasis on theosis and ascetic struggle. The legalities of the Roman tradition hurt for someone as insecure as me. But I feel so guilty for up and leaving without really attending a more traditional parish and seeing the Roman identity and continuity. But I think ultimately I don’t fit in, and my spiritual progress is suffering dearly due to all these issues. I feel completely comfortable when I consider myself Eastern and practice accordingly. I leave the Liturgy happy. I get to talk to people because the parish is smaller and they notice newcomers. I think the parish is beautiful, I don’t feel like a fish out of water, etc. But I still. feel. bad.

My main concern is a prideful one I must admit - I made something out of myself studying tons of Western theology over the years, and now I have no clue where to begin with the East. I keep telling myself I like the intellectualism and dogmatic precision and such but let’s face it - there’s a huge gulf between theology and praxis here. Lots of head knowledge, but I need something experiential. I don’t have a Christian “heart”, but I don’t want my heart to be like the Romans’ because their spirituality feels so feminine and sensual. So I kick and scream myself into an emotional mess. I just need to know where to go, what to read, to learn about Orthodoxy/Byzantine theology and praxis. Because compared to Protestantism and Roman Catholicism there is no where near as much detailed information available online. I’m afraid I won’t be able to learn about it. Plus I’d miss my sacramentals and devotions, and that makes me concerned about indulgences as well. (As you can see I’m trying to stop myself from acting like I don’t have to accept certain dogmas which shows that I’m not going to go all traditionalist once I transfer.)

I know it’s a lot of talk about me, me, me here but I have to preserve myself somehow because I feel so sick from all the stress. I feel so alone.
Have you spoken to a priest? Or rather have you got a priest you trust you could speak to? If not if possible seek one out and speak to them, ultimately I am sure people will give you good advice on this forum but it is only a priest, a 'doctor of the soul’ who can give you the peace you want.

That said as regards your devotions, sacramentals and indulgences, becoming an eastern catholic or not should not affect this. There are plenty of eastern catholics who practice western devotions and use western sacramentals, some may see these eastern catholics as being latinised but I doubt they care what they get called. As for indulgences, that is an essential part of Catholic Dogma, despite what some may think it is not something we can pick and choose or unique to the western tradition, it is universal and essential to being Catholic.
 
I think you still have many protestant beliefs about God. That is something you really should address because you cannot grow spiritually with that kind of burden.

I completely sympathise with you when it comes to quality of liturgy in the latin rite these days. And I also understand why you are drawn to the eastern rite. Since they are Catholic I see no reason why you should not go there. The Eastern Catholicism forum can give you good information on where to start and what to expect in terms of switching rites if you decide to do so.

However, making this change will not necessarily solve your problems. In the end, you will be dealing with the same faith. Also, you converted very recently. A few months is really not enough to fogure things out. The catholic church has so much richness and cannot be grasped by a bit of reading.There is so much mystery, not just legalism and intellectualism. You have to scatch beneath the surface. But this brings us to your initial concern: current trend of forgetting the tradition and lowering the standars. You would have to take matters into your own hands in order to get more. That is what I do, as well as many others who seek the entire legacy of our church.

If you still decide to switch to an eastern rite I hope you will not be dissappointed. Our issues tend to follow us wherever we go, and going to a different church will not necessarily make them go away. Good luck and God bless.
 
As for indulgences, that is an essential part of Catholic Dogma, despite what some may think it is not something we can pick and choose or unique to the western tradition, it is universal and essential to being Catholic.
What are indulgences? :rolleyes

To the OP

Despite what Latin Catholics say Eastern Catholics believe in, you should listen to authentic Eastern teaching to know what Eastern spirituality is all about. We’re not Roman Catholics with an Eastern “Mass”. While the elements of belief have things in common, the expression and understanding are different to the point that its not fair to say they are exactly the same as the Roman Catholic understanding of it. While we believe in works and prayers being efficacious on the souls of the departed, to call them indulgences is a disservice to how the Eastern praxis understands them.
 
What are indulgences? :rolleyes

To the OP

Despite what Latin Catholics say Eastern Catholics believe in, you should listen to authentic Eastern teaching to know what Eastern spirituality is all about. We’re not Roman Catholics with an Eastern “Mass”. While the elements of belief have things in common, the expression and understanding are different to the point that its not fair to say they are exactly the same as the Roman Catholic understanding of it. While we believe in works and prayers being efficacious on the souls of the departed, to call them indulgences is a disservice to how the Eastern praxis understands them.
I doubt you actually don’t know what indulgences are, whether you like it or not Indulgences are a de fide doctrine for the WHOLE church. Seek them or don’t, but you cannot deny either their existence or validity for ALL Catholics.
 
Note from Moderator:

This is not the place to tangentially debate theological differences between Eastern and Roman Catholicism. Please start a new thread if you want to continue that conversation. This thread will stay strictly on topic. Thank you for your cooperation.

May God Bless You Abundantly,
Catherine Grant
 
I do seem to be holding on to some Protestant misunderstandings: I’m afraid of falling back into a work-less happy grace-faith, and I - even though I know otherwise - can’t shake the Protestant understanding of the role works play in Catholicism. I almost seem to fear being happy in my faith, as though that leads to sin, stupidity, and Hell. So I’ve become rigorously legalistic and fallen into moralism by freaking about the Mass and tradition, trying to dress Christian, feel Christian, talk Christian, and listen to Christian music because I don’t dress like a Christian, feel like a Christian, talk like a Christian, listen to very “Christian” music, and when I go to church and see that everyone is kinda similar to that churchy stereotype I get scared that I have to be like them or God won’t be happy. Like no one will ever consider me a good Christian if I’m myself. I don’t know how to undo it though! I fall apart after Mass for like a six days becoming pissed off at everyone and everything for making me feel like I need to be the same, feel the same, etc. I’m in “hi isn’t it obvious I’m unchurched” hell. Nobody has ever treated me badly but I still feel so filthy.
 
I think you still have many protestant beliefs about God. That is something you really should address because you cannot grow spiritually with that kind of burden.

Since they are Catholic I see no reason why you should not go there. The Eastern Catholicism forum can give you good information on where to start and what to expect in terms of switching rites if you decide to do so.

Good luck and God bless.
I’m in agreement. I hope you find peace. I’ll be praying for you.
Check these out. I encourage you to continue seeking God:

youtube.com/watch?v=MmUDDxflt6o

youtube.com/watch?v=1N1YGDR8RqE&feature=related

God Bless!
 
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