Feeling sick over witnessing sin and saying nothing

[Anglewannabe]

last night I went to a Christmas supper party and then evening of cards at a woman’s house. I have played cards with these people before and they are a friendly group. The majority of these people are in their 40s, 50s and 60s and I suspect like me just want a way to be social.

The majority of these people are divorced and not opposed to meeting and dating someone else. I usually ignore that part and just make it clear that I do not date divorced men. I have fun playing cards and leave judgement to God.

Well last night a VERY akward situation arose for me and I feel sick to my stomach over it. We were talking about how gender roles have changed and woman and men are both working in field that were traditionally for the other gender. This one woman pipes up ‘I don’t think their should be any genders’. She sees the puzzled look on my face and says ‘I have seen my son suffer so much with being a transgender that I no longer feel we should have genders’. (later in the evening I find out her ‘son’ use to be her daughter and now is a man). Then another woman says ‘Yes, bodies are just a shell for our soul and we are all good’. I am sitting there in silence praying ‘God how do I show Your light’.

My resentment is building up that I am expected to be politically correct and not disagree with their point of view but I have not right to expressing my religious views. So a few minutes later, a man asks me what I do for a living and I figure ‘Finally here is my in to speak up’ and I respond ‘I do God’s will. I try my best to do what He asks me to do’ So this one woman says ‘You must be a minister’ Then the lady who owns the house overhears and says ‘No talking religion’ I stop but the man keeps talking religion.

Well, I come home and I am very angry with myself for not speaking up and allowing Jesus to be betrayed like that. I sin in my thoughts and now just want to stay in bed all day because I am so depressed.

If this happened at work, I would let it go because I need a pay cheque. But I do NOT need to socialize in situations where Jesus is being mocked. I just don’t know how to be true to Jesus.

Thanks for reading

 

[captainrick]

So don’t go to another party with those people. Lots of people have strange or sinful opinions or behavior. If you want to really feel sick, visit a crack den or a street corner where you can watch prostitutes and drug dealers operate.

I’m not being dismissive - but there are lots of people and situations we should avoid. Don’t feel that you should have said or done anything different. Just keep on being a good Catholic.

 

[oddmaude]

The passage about casting pearls before swine comes to mind. I don’t know that you let God down. I have a tendency to believe that He would’ve given you the words if there was a message He wanted you to convey. If there was something you felt strongly you were being called to say and you ignored the promptings, then I could understand you feeling that way. Be merciful with yourself.

 

[LegoGE1947]

So don’t go to another party with those people. Lots of people have strange or sinful opinions or behavior. If you want to really feel sick, visit a crack den or a street corner where you can watch prostitutes and drug dealers operate.

I’m not being dismissive - but there are lots of people and situations we should avoid. Don’t feel that you should have said or done anything different. Just keep on being a good Catholic.

There is also a very sickening video ( viewer discresion advised) where a large group of LGBTs and Pro-Aborts in Argentina were trying to gain access to a Catholic Church so they could desecrate it but they were being held back by 1500 brave young Catholic men who formed a perimeter around the building and prayed the rosary, inspite of being abused, spit upon, spray painted, etc by this demonically inspired mob. In addition the mob burned an effigy of the Pope while doing a wild dance around it. See www.protectthepope.com

 

[PhiloMed]

Well last night a VERY akward situation arose for me and I feel sick to my stomach over it. We were talking about how gender roles have changed and woman and men are both working in field that were traditionally for the other gender. This one woman pipes up ‘I don’t think their should be any genders’. She sees the puzzled look on my face and says ‘I have seen my son suffer so much with being a transgender that I no longer feel we should have genders’. (later in the evening I find out her ‘son’ use to be her daughter and now is a man). Then another woman says ‘Yes, bodies are just a shell for our soul and we are all good’. I am sitting there in silence praying ‘God how do I show Your light’.

My resentment is building up that I am expected to be politically correct and not disagree with their point of view but I have not right to expressing my religious views. So a few minutes later, a man asks me what I do for a living and I figure ‘Finally here is my in to speak up’ and I respond ‘I do God’s will. I try my best to do what He asks me to do’ So this one woman says ‘You must be a minister’ Then the lady who owns the house overhears and says ‘No talking religion’ I stop but the man keeps talking religion.

Thanks for reading

I don’t understand why you are so upset for not speaking up. Why choose this issue if you already found other things they do objectionable?

This woman has probably not had the easiest time seeing her little girl become a man in front of her very eyes and it would have been very inappropriate of you to start preaching to her about God’s will. She didn’t ask for your thoughts. It is her and her child’s life.

I also think that your response to the question of what you do for a living was rather odd. He asked a straightforward question and it was probably not meant to be your “in” to discuss your faith. It’s called small talk.

I would let this go. Either continue to go to these card games or don’t. Only you can decide what you are comfortable with. However, if you’re going to feel this way over every lifestyle issue you find objectionable then maybe you need a different group of friends.

 

[tabycat]

I don’t understand why you are so upset for not speaking up. Why choose this issue if you already found other things they do objectionable?

This woman has probably not had the easiest time seeing her little girl become a man in front of her very eyes and it would have been very inappropriate of you to start preaching to her about God’s will. She didn’t ask for your thoughts. It is her and her child’s life.

I also think that your response to the question of what you do for a living was rather odd. He asked a straightforward question and it was probably not meant to be your “in” to discuss your faith. It’s called small talk.

I would let this go. Either continue to go to these card games or don’t. Only you can decide what you are comfortable with. However, if you’re going to feel this way over every lifestyle issue you find objectionable then maybe you need a different group of friends.

I wish I could say it as well!

 

[esieffe]

I feel sure, at least some people picked up on your feelings via body language. The host quickly interjected the “no religion” alarm.

I would add that this mother must have gone through a horrendous amount of pain and sadness along with her son. Their lives, even now are living train wrecks. Some people just do not have the strength to fight the good fight. Do you think this mother and son are living happy, joyful, lives of glee? I doubt it. They are in an awful heartbreaking situation even though they may put on a good face.

It is true that some people who live lifestyles outside of the church may think they are happy. The transgender thing… IMHO is far to egregious for it not to be steeped in utter pain all the way around. But for the others, straight couples living in sin, adulterers etc, they may think they are happy, but in truth must feel some sort of loss or longing for God.

I pray that they may do the right thing as the mature, and if I can help, I will do so with compassion and example, not like my father’s Choir director /organist who would whack me over the head with a hymnal when I said something smart as a kid!

I find that when I admonish without love and compassion in my heart, people tend to block me out, as to not experience more hurt. When I choose to council with compassion and a loving heart, they often tend to respond more in kind.

 

[jmj777]

I know how sickening it can be when one fails to rise up and defend God when we don’t have the immediate words. It has happened to most people at one time or another. (It’s happened many times to me!) The best thing you could do is ***offer this up to God ***as a sacrifice. God understands you didn’t have the right words at the moment. God allows situations like these to occur to keep us running back to him when we’re confronted with our human weaknesses and failures. God also probably wanted you to see these people for who they really are. Either way, don’t let the evil one keep you from running to Our Lord and His Blessed Mother! I’ll be praying for you. May God bless you!

Peace.

+JMJ+

 

[Anglewannabe]

I don’t understand why you are so upset for not speaking up. Why choose this issue if you already found other things they do objectionable? .

And my honest answer to that is, although in God’s eyes all sin is evil, as a human, some sins make me feel more akward. Not sure is I am saying this right but it is kind of like some sins just don’t make me feel grossed out even though I don’t do them. I realize it is just how I have different tolerance level.

This woman has probably not had the easiest time seeing her little girl become a man in front of her very eyes and it would have been very inappropriate of you to start preaching to her about God’s will. She didn’t ask for your thoughts. It is her and her child’s life.

I understand what you are saying and I did not want to start preaching God’s will. I simply wanted to state my opinion for the record and then let her disagree if she wanted. It’s the fact that society only let’s one group of people voice their opinion and not the other that angers me.

I also think that your response to the question of what you do for a living was rather odd. He asked a straightforward question and it was probably not meant to be your “in” to discuss your faith. It’s called small talk.

And this is where perhaps I need to explain. One of the crosses I live is struggling with unemployment. I hate when people ask me where I work because very often it puts me in the situation where I have to admit I am currently not working. I find it humiliating and it is also a kind of small talk I want nothing to do with. So I was trying a way to avoid his question and speak up at the same time.

I would let this go. Either continue to go to these card games or don’t. Only you can decide what you are comfortable with. However, if you’re going to feel this way over every lifestyle issue you find objectionable then maybe you need a different group of friends.

And as I have said before, I do not feel this way about every lifestyle issue I find objectionable

 

[Anglewannabe]

I feel sure, at least some people picked up on your feelings via body language. The host quickly interjected the “no religion” alarm.

I need to explain something. The hostess was in a different room when this happened. The topic semi changed and the man was talking about religion is schools and other aspects of religion when the woman walked into the room.

I would add that this mother must have gone through a horrendous amount of pain and sadness along with her son. Their lives, even now are living train wrecks. Some people just do not have the strength to fight the good fight. Do you think this mother and son are living happy, joyful, lives of glee? I doubt it. They are in an awful heartbreaking situation even though they may put on a good face.

I 100% agree that this mother and son are probably suffering. Which is what makes me feel so sick to my stomach. I am more than happy to pray for them. However, I just feel that by saying nothing, I am indirectly giving her the impression that I agree with her choices. And the more she thinks people agree, the more they will hurt themselves. It is not that I want to change their minds, so much as I don’t want them to think I am encouraging their behaviour.

 

[Sunbreak]

I think that silence in the situation is probably the best response. If the daughter of that woman had already transitioned to being like a man via hormones or even surgery, your words are not going to change things. How can her mother cope with such a change except to find some alternative way to look at it?
My niece is one of those people who is transitioning because she always felt she was male. My sister tells people “same great kid - just different packaging.” Do I think the situation doesn’t bother my sister? I’m sure it does, but my speaking against it won’t accomplish anything. Yes, I think it’s weird and I don’t understand it. I can only pray for them both.

 

[EasterJoy]

The passage about casting pearls before swine comes to mind. I don’t know that you let God down. I have a tendency to believe that He would’ve given you the words if there was a message He wanted you to convey. If there was something you felt strongly you were being called to say and you ignored the promptings, then I could understand you feeling that way. Be merciful with yourself.

Yep. I don’t think the OP was implicitly supporting falsehood by refusing to be drawn into a fruitless conversation. She did not miss out on a chance to evangelize. She did what she could. It is unlikely to have gone better, and could have easily been far worse.

 

[EasterJoy]

I need to explain something. The hostess was in a different room when this happened. The topic semi changed and the man was talking about religion is schools and other aspects of religion when the woman walked into the room.

I 100% agree that this mother and son are probably suffering. Which is what makes me feel so sick to my stomach. I am more than happy to pray for them. However, I just feel that by saying nothing, I am indirectly giving her the impression that I agree with her choices. And the more she thinks people agree, the more they will hurt themselves. It is not that I want to change their minds, so much as I don’t want them to think I am encouraging their behaviour.

If the hostess says not to talk about religion, then don’t.

It would have been ok to say, “I can’t imagine how hard it must be when your mind cannot accept you true gender,” but it was also ok to discern that this was anything but “a teaching moment,” and to refrain from trying to be the group’s teacher.

 

[Viki63]

What view would you have wanted to express? That sexual reassignment surgery is against God’s plan? I agree, but talking about that to the mother of a child who had it done, and who has said he has suffered so much because of being transgender, is somewhat like telling a woman who’s had an abortion how horrible that is. Maybe God’s forgiveness would be the best idea to mention, but maybe a social event is not the best place to bring it up.

I think keeping silent about it was the best thing to do.

Here is a good article about sex change, focusing on the doctor at Johns Hopkins who stopped allowing the surgery, because the surgery is a collaboration with a mental disorder, not a treatment. People who have this disorder need compassion and healing, not condemnation. They need to know that God loves them the way they are, and led to appreciate being a man or woman.

 

[underacloud]

If you are feeling anger, resentment, and sickness at the views of other people, it is unlikely anything you say while in such a mood will present “God’s light” to them, so as others have said perhaps staying silent was called for in this situation. By your own account, the look on your face likely expressed that you disagree with the woman’s position and there’s little good to be gained from taking it further. Pray for them and move on.

 

[EasterJoy]

What view would you have wanted to express? That sexual reassignment surgery is against God’s plan? I agree, but talking about that to the mother of a child who had it done, and who has said he has suffered so much because of being transgender, is somewhat like telling a woman who’s had an abortion how horrible that is. Maybe God’s forgiveness would be the best idea to mention, but maybe a social event is not the best place to bring it up.

I think keeping silent about it was the best thing to do.

Here is a good article about sex change, focusing on the doctor at Johns Hopkins who stopped allowing the surgery, because the surgery is a collaboration with a mental disorder, not a treatment. People who have this disorder need compassion and healing, not condemnation. They need to know that God loves them the way they are, and led to appreciate being a man or woman.

It is possible that some people might have a congenital sydrome that orients their brain towards a femalle self-image. As the doctor points out, however, the vast majority have an immutible sexual identity in our genes, an identity that cannot be changed.

 

[Anglewannabe]

If you are feeling anger, resentment, and sickness at the views of other people, .

I just want to clarify the anger and resentment was over the fact they could freely express their opinion and I couldn’t express mine. It wasn’t over their view per se. And the sickness was again not over their view so much as over the fact that when someone suffers over something like being a transgender, society does not encourage people to see God’s love for them

 

[underacloud]

I just want to clarify the anger and resentment was over the fact they could freely express their opinion and I couldn’t express mine. It wasn’t over their view per se. And the sickness was again not over their view so much as over the fact that when someone suffers over something like being a transgender, society does not encourage people to see God’s love for them

Whatever the reasons, anger/resentment is a dangerous emotion to have while trying to show God’s love. But anyway, how do you think you should have shown God’s love? By telling her that you disagree with what they’ve done and think they are sinning?

It’s probably best if you just “have fun playing cards and leave judgement to God”. If you were praying for the best way to handle the situation, my estimation is that your prayers were answered by the conversations being cut off and unpleasantness avoided.

 

[DMC12]

to me, when you remain silent it does not means you actually agree, sometimes we remain silent because we disagree, but don’t want to speak.

someone here on the forum said that we are supposed to be fishers of men, not hunters of men, (i think its a quote from a saint), let me ask you, if you were given the chance to speak what would you have said? and besides do you think that that would have brought them closer or farther to God? remember that people when feeling threatened get defensive and might develop some hatred to the Church because of that. I’m not saying that you should not try to evangelize, but remember that sometimes our actions could be counterproductive if done wrong.

 

[Anglewannabe]

Whatever the reasons, anger/resentment is a dangerous emotion to have while trying to show God’s love. .

Thanks for clarifying, I see your point