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MD1
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@YourNameHere Thank you for your reply. May God bless you.
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Mi_Rose
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My mother went to a Catholic college in the 1940s. The church has run colleges for women for a long time. So anyone who says women should not go to college is promoting something other than church teaching.
The dress code for churches in Vatican City allows women to wear pants. Anyone who says women should not wear pants is not promoting church teaching.
The Ordinary form of the mass is just that the form that the Church has said should be used most often. Anyone who says otherwise is not promoting church teaching.
The dress code for churches in Vatican City allows women to wear pants. Anyone who says women should not wear pants is not promoting church teaching.
The Ordinary form of the mass is just that the form that the Church has said should be used most often. Anyone who says otherwise is not promoting church teaching.
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MD1
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@Mi_Rose Thank you for your reply! I will keep these things in mind moving forward. May God bless you.
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MD1
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@1ke I will keep that in mind. Thank you.
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Londoner
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If anybody tries to tell you that women shouldn’t be receiving higher education, point them in the direction of the late Sister Wendy Beckett, a consecrated virgin who received a congratulatory first at Oxford (examined by J.R.R. Tolkien, no less) and became a schoolteacher, university lecturer, Latinist, and art historian.
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MD1
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@Londoner Wow, I had never heard of Sister Mary Beckett before! That is amazing! Thank you for sharing!
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Anne1964
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I have run into people like you describe that believe women should never wear pants and should not go to college. I think they are rather…strange. Unfortunately, people with this mindset are often found in parishes where the EF Mass is offered. If they are in leadership positions in the parish I would see as that as very problematic.
Have you spoken with your priest about your concerns?
In my limited experience with a few more traditional parishes there are always a few people with these beliefs but they have not tried to impose them on others.
I’m currently dividing my time between the parish I have been registered at for a decade and a parish that offers the EF Mass. There are things I like about both parishes and I haven’t decided if I am going to make a formal switch.
I know many more people at my old parish but there aren’t many single people there my age. At the other parish I have a good group of friends that are closer to my age and are single, either thru the death of their spouses or divorce.
It’s a tough decision to make as I love things about both parishes.
Have you spoken with your priest about your concerns?
In my limited experience with a few more traditional parishes there are always a few people with these beliefs but they have not tried to impose them on others.
I’m currently dividing my time between the parish I have been registered at for a decade and a parish that offers the EF Mass. There are things I like about both parishes and I haven’t decided if I am going to make a formal switch.
I know many more people at my old parish but there aren’t many single people there my age. At the other parish I have a good group of friends that are closer to my age and are single, either thru the death of their spouses or divorce.
It’s a tough decision to make as I love things about both parishes.
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MD1
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@Anne1964 Thank you for taking the time to reply. It is nice to know that someone else feels a little caught between two parishes as well! I have not talked with my pastor about it, because no one has specifically said to me that I need to change what I wear or what I am doing, etc. It is more of a feeling that these people may disapprove. I mentioned to one of the other commenters that a husband/father of one of these families at the parish has gone so far that he does not want his children socializing with any women who do not wear skirts. One time one of the teenage daughters in the family asked me if I always wore my skirts below my knees like she did. I said no. (If I wear a dress or skirt is is typically to the knee). She seemed to not really know what to say.
So like I said, no one has confronted me about not doing things they way they would. The dress code that our pastor put in the bulletin is that shoulders and cleavage should be covered and knees should be covered when sitting. But many of these people have long skirts and elbows covered. Which again, I do not have a problem with as that is their opinion, but I just don’t see why I should be looked down upon if I’m still following the parish dress code but just not in the same way they would (a knee length skirt for Sunday Mass, for instance). Whereas if I was at the EF/OF combination parish, no one would think twice if I wore a knee length skirt, or wasn’t wearing a veil, etc.
So like I said, no one has confronted me about not doing things they way they would. The dress code that our pastor put in the bulletin is that shoulders and cleavage should be covered and knees should be covered when sitting. But many of these people have long skirts and elbows covered. Which again, I do not have a problem with as that is their opinion, but I just don’t see why I should be looked down upon if I’m still following the parish dress code but just not in the same way they would (a knee length skirt for Sunday Mass, for instance). Whereas if I was at the EF/OF combination parish, no one would think twice if I wore a knee length skirt, or wasn’t wearing a veil, etc.
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0Scarlett_nidiyilii
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American cultural Catholicism has been cross-pollinated with a lot of Protestant cultural ideas, and in certain very conservative Christian circles you find these ideas promoted.
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leonhardprintz
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Sorry to hear about the leadership having rather strange ideas about what clothes to wear, and whether or not it is right for women to attend college. But as long as they mind their own business, I would be perfectly fine with them.
I’ve been to a traditionalist group (wasn’t a parish, but we sometimes got permission to bring in a priest to celebrate mass in the EF), though it was rather more mixed, and the one who ran it used to be an atheist. We’ve had some good discussions about modern mores. Never dress code, except discussions about priestly atire. Sometimes the notion of equality as a goodness was debated.
A preference for the EF was definitely there, sometimes juxtaposed with the OF, with people voicing what they ‘missed’, or ‘discovered’ in the EF. Some expressed a wish to be able to always go to the EF that our tiny traditionalist group was able to celebrate now and then. I don’t know if it was the mass itself, or the good fellowship afterwards.
If I didn’t have the fellowship, and I was asked to put in multiple hours every week, with people I had little in common with and I didn’t feel comfortable talking to, I’d start to question why I’d have to go to the EF.
If they’re the kind of traditionalists who consider the OF dangerous spiritually, I’d walk out of the door and never return. That’s toxic traditionalism, and I want no part in it.
As for how much time you want to put into Church, you’re asked to be there for mass. That’s all the Church demands of you. If your life has become more busy, and you need the Sunday to rest and recuperate, then it is up to you to make the decision of how much you have to spare to give the Church. They cannot demand of you that you put in any more time than what you actually have.
I’d consider not exerting myself. I know if I do that for a long time I start building up bitterness and resentment.
I’ve been to a traditionalist group (wasn’t a parish, but we sometimes got permission to bring in a priest to celebrate mass in the EF), though it was rather more mixed, and the one who ran it used to be an atheist. We’ve had some good discussions about modern mores. Never dress code, except discussions about priestly atire. Sometimes the notion of equality as a goodness was debated.
A preference for the EF was definitely there, sometimes juxtaposed with the OF, with people voicing what they ‘missed’, or ‘discovered’ in the EF. Some expressed a wish to be able to always go to the EF that our tiny traditionalist group was able to celebrate now and then. I don’t know if it was the mass itself, or the good fellowship afterwards.
If I didn’t have the fellowship, and I was asked to put in multiple hours every week, with people I had little in common with and I didn’t feel comfortable talking to, I’d start to question why I’d have to go to the EF.
If they’re the kind of traditionalists who consider the OF dangerous spiritually, I’d walk out of the door and never return. That’s toxic traditionalism, and I want no part in it.
As for how much time you want to put into Church, you’re asked to be there for mass. That’s all the Church demands of you. If your life has become more busy, and you need the Sunday to rest and recuperate, then it is up to you to make the decision of how much you have to spare to give the Church. They cannot demand of you that you put in any more time than what you actually have.
I’d consider not exerting myself. I know if I do that for a long time I start building up bitterness and resentment.
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MD1
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@leonhardprintz Those are some really solid points. Thank you for sharing your experience with your traditional group. I will be praying about this situation. May God bless you!
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Shasta-Rose
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Go to all the parishes in rotation. 1,2,3,1,2,3,etc. At some point you will realize where you feel the most at home.
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Loud-living-dogma
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With all due respect, I believe you may be mistaken. There is indeed such a thing as an “EF parish”. They are called “personal parishes” rather than territorial parishes. We have an EF parish in my city.
www.ncronline.org
Or, from Wikipedia:
" Normally, a parish comprises all Catholics living within its geographically defined area, but non-territorial parishes can also be established within a defined area on a personal basis for Catholics belonging to a particular rite, language, nationality, or community.[14] An example is that of personal parishes established in accordance with the 7 July 2007 motu proprio Summorum Pontificum for those attached to the older Extraordinary form of the Roman Rite.[15]"
en.wikipedia.org
As traditional parishes decline, 'personal parishes' find new interest
The Field Hospital: Increasingly churchgoers are bypassing neighborhood parishes in favor of faith communities that deliver what they are seeking. And Catholic bishops are obliging the trend.
www.ncronline.org
Or, from Wikipedia:
" Normally, a parish comprises all Catholics living within its geographically defined area, but non-territorial parishes can also be established within a defined area on a personal basis for Catholics belonging to a particular rite, language, nationality, or community.[14] An example is that of personal parishes established in accordance with the 7 July 2007 motu proprio Summorum Pontificum for those attached to the older Extraordinary form of the Roman Rite.[15]"
Parish - Wikipedia
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Loud-living-dogma
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Protestant? Just because you personally haven’t run across these ideas in modern American Catholicism doesn’t mean they’re Protestant. Check out this page and let it blow your mind…I always love to read the comments of the Cardinal of Genoa from 1960.Londoner:
American cultural Catholicism has been cross-pollinated with a lot of Protestant cultural ideas, and in certain very conservative Christian circles you find these ideas promoted.
Londoner if it makes you feel better it’s from the UK Catholic Herald. : )
https://catholicherald.co.uk/commen...ike-a-blimp-now-but-i-suspect-he-had-a-point/
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MD1
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@Shasta-Rose That is a good idea and I think I’m going to try it. Thank you and may God bless you!
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angell1
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yeah, that is pretty messed up. it becomes unhealthy when people push their preferences on others when the church has no such requirement
blackforest
Well-known member
I haven’t read all of the responses, so I apologize if I’m rehashing some points that were already made.
Of course your fellow/sister parishioners have a right to make choices in clothes, education, etc. The problem is that these choices aren’t required by the Magisterium, so it would be wrong of them to impose them on you - either overtly through mandates or subtly through social pressure or moral superiority.
Personally, I am a bit (OK, a LOT), of a free-thinking, march-to-my-own-beat kind of gal. I am now at peace with how I will never fully fit in anywhere. It becomes a question of which parish will give me the most freedom to grow authentically in my faith.
I’d suggest asking yourself that same question. Don’t worry about bruised egos or hurt feelings if you leave your current parish. It does no good for your faith journey if it’s hampered by resentment or ill feelings; on the contrary, it could stunt you spiritually, and your spiritual growth is what you ultimately answer to.
God bless you in your decision.
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MD1
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@blackforest Thank you so much for your insight. I really appreciate your reply!
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Londoner
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Interesting. I have to say, the Catholic Herald is still considered pretty conservative here, The Tablet being the more liberal-minded Catholic magazine. I see that the author went to Cambridge, so I guess she’s still pretty keen on women getting a higher education.
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