Fees for Sacraments

[babochka]

When I was a young - very broke - mother of three in the late 1980’s, we lived in West Texas, and our parish charged $125 per child for religion class. The money was required up front, so we simply didn’t go. Supporting a family on minimum wage and earning a college degree doesn’t pay the bills much less anything else.

Living in six dioceses over the past 25 years, that was the only one that charged.

The Church always receives the first 10% of my income.

To me it’s wrong for the church to charge for religion classes and very, very wrong to charge for the sacraments.

If possible, find another Catholic Church nearby!

$125 is absolutely ridiculous. I can (sort of) see some fees to cover actual costs such as books, retreats, etc, but I wouldn’t expect a book fee to be more than $25. In my opinion, though, even that should not be asked.

 

[TrueLight]

So in affect you would have normal paying parish members supporting people that don’t.

Ain’t that the way it always is? I am fine with that. Some people cannot afford to offer monetary gifts but they support the parish with their attendance and prayers.

You can say charge people that haven’t come before higher fees, where do you draw the line? People that have been coming for 3 months, people that have been coming for a year, 3 years? Do you make it a monetary thing?

No, no, no. That’s my point. It shouldn’t be about that. To make it simple, I’m referring to the baptism and not weddings or funerals.

Before I got confirmed, I saw people discussing stipends on here and it greatly troubled me. So I asked at my parish and they looked at me like I had two heads. So I didn’t actually pay to get confirmed.

The money has to come from somewhere. In reality most people can afford whatever the parish charges, from what I have seen the actual charge usually varies according the affluence of the area. Even in the higher income areas the prices isn’t that high. Inner city parishes usually charge less then suburban.

Maybe most people can afford it. I have a problem with the concept.

How do you respond to the post that said that baptisms already occur within the Mass. What are we paying for besides the candles?

 

[Marauder]

How do you respond to the post that said that baptisms already occur within the Mass. What are we paying for besides the candles?

I already responded to that, in my original response to the OP I said “If you don’t mind one during Mass or regularly scheduled baptism time with other families, the fees may be less.”

The OP then responded that that particular parish doesn’t do baptisms during Mass.

The policies are set by the diocese and the parish, they may or may not have different policies for costs during Mass vs. in a session with other families vs. one where it is just the family and friends. Only the parish in conjunction with the diocese knows what is best and what they may need to charge.

Some parishes may have only a few baptisms a year and can afford to fully fund them. Some parishes, like the one I had my kids baptized at have hundreds a year, both with active members of the parish and non-active. I personally much rather have the “problem” of having too many baptisms to deal with.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I have seen this as well, but I have seen the people of this once very Catholic town go from from Catholism to Protestant to even just agnostic. I know that very few people from my home town even get married through the church and opt to just get married with the justice of the peace instead to avoid the cost of the wedding ($20 vs $200+ ) Children are not being baptised because of the cost. First communion classes are getting smaller and smaller, it is simply to expensive to put children in the classes. And my thing is even those who are in the class seem to not be learning a thing. None of the children who go through the classes, those who can offered it, seem to understand simple things like the True Presence.

I want to add that I no longer live in this diocese but I do have lots of family who are still in it. I have lived around the country and have never seen people who are so in need of a proper catechism as those in my home diocese. I am very sad when I go home and see the state of the Church there.

The fee may be a good excuse, but there is much more to people leaving the church than just a $200 fee for a wedding.

Protestant churches also charge fees for things like weddings and baptisms - for prep and materials, and they also encourage a much higher rate of ordinary giving than most Catholics are used to.

Money may be the reason given, but it is not the real cause. Most often people are looking for an ‘easier’ experience of church - not so many rules and more ‘fun’. Protestanct churches also revolve more around fellowship, so people have a tendancy to go where their friends are.

The shame is that we as Catholics don’t encourage people to stay in the Church or join the Church with that same kind of enthusiasm and positive view. And that we can’t easily explain why a parish might ask for a $50 fee/offering for a baptism.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I was horrified when I learned that many parishes charge fees for sacraments, religious education classes, etc. (Mine does not.) Even if the parish happily waives the fee for those who cannot afford to pay, just having the fee sets up a barrier for struggling families. Besides, I just think that these things are the responsibility of the parish as a community and should be included in the budget for the parish. Do we charge people to attend Mass? Perhaps we should institute a mileage fee for the homebound to receive the Eucharist. Or charge for the cost of the hosts? We do not have a fee-for-service system. On the other hand… we need to cultivate a culture of giving generously when the collection basket is passed around. Statistically, Catholics give very little compared to other Christians. If we could change that cultural attitude, we could do so much good in our parishes and in the world.

Here, this is the answer. The Church doesn’t want to turn away a family that may be returning to the practice of their faith at the baptism of a child, but there are still costs associated with the prep and the ceremony itself. Hence the fee.

BUT, if more of us were giving generously and even sacrificially to the church, the parish and diocese, and church would be able to change the model.

There have been separate fees for sacraments (prep and offering) almost since the beginning of the Church. Questions like this have been discussed by priest Saints who struggled with this issue. Even the issue of people being willing and able to pay for a big party after the sacrament, but were unwilling to pay a stipend to the church.

The answer then and the answer now is catechesis for those approaching for the sacrament and generosity from those (us) who already understand the importance of the sacrament and the needs of the Church.

 

[coachdennis]

My two cents:

I don’t believe in having a set “fee” for services like you were going to city hall to get a dog license.

I believe that a church should mention, if asked, about a suggested offering an actual number, but do not deny services because does not have the money or gives less.

I believe that a church should look at their previous year of baptisms, weddings, funerals, etc. and tally up the monetary cost (supplies, heat, utilities, etc.) and make those budgeted line items in the upcoming year budget.

When it comes to religious ed programs (I’m not talking about parish schools), it gets a little more complicated. Ideally there should be a line item in the budget for this, but textbooks and supplies are expensive. I don’t see anything wrong with charging people for these (people should have a “little skin in the game”) but there has to be a way to ensure that struggling families are not denied access. Again, this is a pastoral challenge of how to encourage people to come forward if they are struggling financially without having to grovel or feel everyone is looking at them as “the poor family.”

A creative parish could has people to contribute to a special “education fuund” where money could be donated for this person. If done right, it could be a way of reminding people that even if they don’t have children or their children are grown, they are part of the community that is suppose to support faith formation among the young and this is one way to do that.

Someone mentioned the little that the average Catholic donates. I don’t have exact quote, but I remember hearing someone say on TV that if every American going to a church or synagogue gave a certain percentage each week there would be more than enough money for charitable activities in this country and we would not need money from th government.

I also suspect there would be enough money for baptismal candles.

 

[Gorgias]

I believe that a church should look at their previous year of baptisms, weddings, funerals, etc. and tally up the monetary cost (supplies, heat, utilities, etc.) and make those budgeted line items in the upcoming year budget.

Umm… and where would the funds come for these additional line items? You would have to ask the parish to donate more $$$ in order to meet the projected budget shortfall. How well do you think that would work?

Or, you could cut back on other charitable activities of the parish. What would you eliminate from a parish budget in order to fund baptisms/weddings/funerals?

 

[coachdennis]

Umm… and where would the funds come for these additional line items? You would have to ask the parish to donate more $$$ in order to meet the projected budget shortfall. How well do you think that would work?

Or continue the “fees”, “charges”, that people seem don’t seem to like either. Then, nothing changes
Or, you could cut back on other charitable activities of the parish. What would you eliminate from a parish budget in order to fund baptisms/weddings/funerals?

That’s for each parish to decide, it’s called prioritizing. It’s called saying this is important to us, as a community, we don’t want people to feel they cannot participate because of economic issues

 

[babochka]

Umm… and where would the funds come for these additional line items? You would have to ask the parish to donate more $$$ in order to meet the projected budget shortfall. How well do you think that would work?

Or, you could cut back on other charitable activities of the parish. What would you eliminate from a parish budget in order to fund baptisms/weddings/funerals?

I don’t know where they would come from, but I strongly believe the parish needs to prioritize these items. Large parishes manage to include janitorial services and gardening services in the budget, but can’t include the rather negligible actual costs associated with a Baptism? With the exception of funerals, we’re talking about sacraments here. These are some of the most basic responsibilities of the priest. These cannot be delegated to the laity. I wonder what the annual costs of hosts for an average parish is, or candles, or oil for anointing of the sick, or cleaning of the vestments and church, or heating and cooling during Mass, or toilet paper for the bathroom, or literature in the vestibule. How are these items paid for, as they are also directly and indirectly associated with the reception of the sacraments by the faithful? It seems like some parishes separates out these “special event” sacraments as a sort of fundraising activity, to supplement the budget overall. While I think that it is fine to have a “suggested donation”, having it presented as a fee in order to receive a sacrament is just wrong. I think a wedding might be an exception, because it is more of a facility rental fee, but what if a couple simply wants a small, private wedding with a few family members as witnesses. As Catholics, they are required to have their wedding in the church. Do we really charge them for that, the same as if they were having a big wedding and want a pretty church?

Do most parishes have charges for programs like RCIA or Catholics Returning Home, or do they only charge for the baptisms, first Communions and Confirmation of children? What if a couple were going to have a convalidation on a Saturday afternoon before Mass? Would this be treated in the same way as a wedding?

 

[babochka]

T

Protestant churches also charge fees for things like weddings and baptisms - for prep and materials, and they also encourage a much higher rate of ordinary giving than most Catholics are used to.

Not that I could find. I looked at the webpages of a number of Lutheran, Episcopalian and Presbyterian churches. Time after time, I noted the phrase “there is no fee for baptism”.

 

[asd72]

The Church of England don’t charge for Baptism or Confirmation. There is a fee for weddings and funerals. This is according to their website.

I wasn’t charged for Confirmation at my parish, I don’t know if that is standard here or not.

 

[Pug]

Should I be able to talk to someone or do I just sit back and watch the Catholics in my hometown leave the Catholic Church and go to the more welcoming Protestant churches.

What if you offer to donate $1000 each year to cover fees for a particular sacrament? Would your priest agree to stop charging for baptism?

This is an open question to all, by the way. My parish charges fees here and there, but I suspect they do it for reasons besides just the money, so I wonder if any parish would take that type of a deal.

 

[1ke]

I think all this talk of fees for books, candles, etc, has obscured the real issue here.

The offering is, like the offering of the best of his herd by Abel, something we offer in gratitude to God and in thanksgiving for the Mass or Sacrament. We should make an offering freely and gladly.

The Church, through canon law, governs these offerings specifically stating that the Province of Bishops sets the limit of the offering. Limit = maximum. We can all typically make some sort of offering. We need not offer the limit.

Canon law specifically make stipulations regarding those who are unable to make any offering at all, so we need not make an monetary offering if we truly cannot. Only the person in the situation can say whether or not they truly cannot make any offering. We can always offer our time or talent instead if we cannot give money.

I think we need to search our hearts and think about why when this topic comes up so many act as if an offering is wrong. Offerings are not wrong, and our Chuch has a long history of why we should give such offerings on occasions of sacraments and masses.

What may be poorly done, and it seems to be the case here, is the explanation and understanding of both the purpose of the offering, the use of the monies, and that the offering is always voluntary.

 

[Pug]

The Church, through canon law, governs these offerings specifically stating that the Province of Bishops sets the limit of the offering. Limit = maximum. We can all typically make some sort of offering. We need not offer the limit.

I do not understand. The priest can charge the limit if he desires so long as the person is not poor, is that not so? If so, you must pay the man the limit or find another priest. Less money offered is only possible if he agrees, is it not?

I think we need to search our hearts and think about why when this topic comes up so many act as if an offering is wrong.

Perhaps people in my country do not understand offerings because they perceive that the priest is already suitably salaried here, so they view it like if a policeman required you to pay him extra dough to patrol in your neighborhood (in his territory that he is already paid to cover). Either that, or it seems like buying a spiritual thing. Or perhaps it feels repulsive since it doesn’t appear to be voluntary.

 

[1ke]

I do not understand. The priest can charge the limit if he desires so long as the person is not poor, is that not so? If so, you must pay the man the limit or find another priest. Less money offered is only possible if he agrees, is it not?

No.

a) The priest does not and cannot “charge” anything.
b) The priest cannot refuse the sacrament to those who give no offering.

Perhaps people in my country do not understand offerings because they perceive that the priest is already suitably salaried here, so they view it like if a policeman required you to pay him extra dough to patrol in your neighborhood (in his territory that he is already paid to cover). Either that, or it seems like buying a spiritual thing. Or perhaps it feels repulsive since it doesn’t appear to be voluntary.

It seems to me that people in general have a spiritual poverty about them, a miminalist approach and an entitlement attitude.

 

[Pug]

No.

a) The priest does not and cannot “charge” anything.
b) The priest cannot refuse the sacrament to those who give no offering.

Why do parishes/priests tell people this is the stole fee (or whatever language), you must pay it unless you are too poor? Why would they present it that way?

 

[Oneofthewomen]

It seems to me that people in general have a spiritual poverty about them, a miminalist approach and an entitlement attitude.

I think this statement, sadly, sums up the attitude in the US in general.

I know that every parish I have belonged to has charged some sort of fee for sacramental preperation/ceremonies, and that no one has ever been turned away for not being able to pay.

I also know, from my time as a “collection counter” that many people, based on their donations, have no idea what it costs to run a parish. With an average Mass attendence of about 1500 each week, my local parish is hard pressed to make is weekly goal of $9500. That is only $6.34 per person. Yet I hear, often, that the parish should be doing this, or offering that or “Can you believe they are charging $30 for faith formation classes this year, that’s outrageous!”

If we can’t make our weekly collection goal, which is enough to manage “operation costs”, how can the parish be expected to cover all these other expenses?

IMHO, it’s time for us to “put our money where our mouth is”, so to speak- I know that I am trying to! It’s a matter of priorities- do I really need that Tm Horton’s coffee everyday, or that latest gadget? Or can I forgo those things, and add more to my weekly contribution? What about my time & talent? Do I wait for someone to ask me to help out, or do I volunteer? Parish life is what I help to make it, and if I am not contributing to the best of my ability, whether it is my time, my talent or my treasure, I have no one to blame for my parish having to “charge” for things but myself.

 

[TrueLight]

It seems to me that people in general have a spiritual poverty about them, a miminalist approach and an entitlement attitude.

How utterly judgmental.

I don’t understand how one can decide that someone has a spiritual poverty about them or a minimalist approach if they are wondering why one needs to pay a fee for a sacrament.

I also know, from my time as a “collection counter” that many people, based on their donations, have no idea what it costs to run a parish. With an average Mass attendence of about 1500 each week, my local parish is hard pressed to make is weekly goal of $9500. That is only $6.34 per person. Yet I hear, often, that the parish should be doing this, or offering that or "Can you believe they are charging $30 for faith formation classes this year, that’s outrageous!

So then the sacrament fee, like someone suggested is a fundraising plan?

One should pay to get catechized?

 

[poche]

Parishes have a right to charge a reasonable stipend for the services that they provide. However if there is a legitmate hardship in being able to pay the stipend the person with the hardship should approach the priest for a waiver. If he won’t listen to you then go to the bishop. If he won’t listen to you then go to the Vatican. If there are a large number of people who are unable to pay the stipend, then maybe the diocese should change their fee structure.Canon Law states that parishes can charge ‘reasonable fees’ but it also states that when there is inability to pay that no one is to go without the sacraments simply because of inability to pay.

 

[coachdennis]

How utterly judgmental.

I don’t understand how one can decide that someone has a spiritual poverty about them or a minimalist approach if they are wondering why one needs to pay a fee for a sacrament.

I don’t plan to speak for the person you are referencing, but there is a difference between questioning how expenses should be covered in a parish and people who WILL complain no matter what structure a parish impliments.

So then the sacrament fee, like someone suggested is a fundraising plan?

One should pay to get catechized?

And, if I may ask, what would be YOUR solution… and how a parish would meet its financial expenses? You will see that I was asked that question in a previous post and answered

At some point, since you are posing questions, you must have a solution in mind.