feet being kissed at the foot washing service

[Teelynn]

Well I would think it would have to do with what foot it was, if it was a nice pretty foot with painted toes and pumiced soles maybe. If it were a set of big hairy man feet no way…

This is getting weirder and weirder what will they come up with next? Instead of the priest washing the feet everyone is to give back massages to the parishoner in front of them…

This is exactly the danger of not confronting abuses even if smaller. Yes, maybe it’s no big deal if you can’t for some reason GET 12 men and have to use some females. And maybe it’s not a HUGE abuse to wash 12 men and then invite a few from the congregation. BUT…where will they take it from there? As my parish is planning, having the original 12 recruit 12 from the congregation and washing THEIR feet, and having them recruit 12 more and washing THEIR feet and so on and so on?
Hand washing? Back messages? Communal bathing? Why not all just jump in the baptismal font and give each other a little scrub down?

Get the jist? Give them an inch and they will take 10 miles!!! Ugh!!! Pretty soon it doesn’t even resemble a Mass!!! I am at this point so tired of priests that create their own reality of what THEY want it to look like!!! I am wondering if these Pastors might be competing with each other to see who can be more creative?

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

This is exactly the danger of not confronting abuses even if smaller. Yes, maybe it’s no big deal if you can’t for some reason GET 12 men and have to use some females. And maybe it’s not a HUGE abuse to wash 12 men and then invite a few from the congregation. BUT…where will they take it from there? As my parish is planning, having the original 12 recruit 12 from the congregation and washing THEIR feet, and having them recruit 12 more and washing THEIR feet and so on and so on?
Hand washing? Back messages? Communal bathing? Why not all just jump in the baptismal font and give each other a little scrub down?

Get the jist? Give them an inch and they will take 10 miles!!! Ugh!!! Pretty soon it doesn’t even resemble a Mass!!! I am at this point so tired of priests that create their own reality of what THEY want it to look like!!! I am wondering if these Pastors might be competing with each other to see who can be more creative?

No where does it say “12” men. It says men, and, as discussed already ad nauseam, there is an allowance for a bishop to allow women as well.

While hand washing is wrong, washing the feet of many (or even all) members of the congregation is not necessarily wrong.

 

[benedictgal]

No where does it say “12” men. It says men, and, as discussed already ad nauseam, there is an allowance for a bishop to allow women as well.

While hand washing is wrong, washing the feet of many (or even all) members of the congregation is not necessarily wrong.

However, it is not listed in the rubrics for Holy Week. We don’t have the right to insert things into the rite just to be novel and creative. Furthermore, having the entire congregation washing each other’s feet loses the essence of the Gospel reading. Why people want to insert their own creative genius into the liturgy is beyond me.

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

However, it is not listed in the rubrics for Holy Week. We don’t have the right to insert things into the rite just to be novel and creative. Furthermore, having the entire congregation washing each other’s feet loses the essence of the Gospel reading. Why people want to insert their own creative genius into the liturgy is beyond me.

Correct - however the only “personal creative genius” would be having the congregation wash each other’s feet. The celebrant inviting anyone who wants up to have their feet washed would be in keeping with the rubrics.

 

[japhy]

Correct - however the only “personal creative genius” would be having the congregation wash each other’s feet. The celebrant inviting anyone who wants up to have their feet washed would be in keeping with the rubrics.

The documents use the phrase viri selecti (“selected men” or “chosen men”). Putting gender aside, the word selecti is there for a reason: it’s not a free-for-all, there are people selected for this. I don’t think these documents envisioned polling the congregation for volunteers.

 

[AJV]

First, feet are only washed, not kissed. If that has happened, it’s a new one! Second and most important, it is the priest only who washes the feet - imitation of the action of Jesus at the Last Supper. No lay person should be doing that. (We’re talking about the Holy Thursday Mass.)

Yuck! Would not want to do it or see it done! Where do these people get these weird ideas? Just follow the rubrics.

Might the kissing be a cultural thing? I think maybe in the USA it is not common at all but here it is. A lot of people at my parish kiss the priest’s hand when they take the blessed bread, he kisses the feet, etc., etc.

 

[Teelynn]

The documents use the phrase viri selecti (“selected men” or “chosen men”). Putting gender aside, the word selecti is there for a reason: it’s not a free-for-all, there are people selected for this. I don’t think these documents envisioned polling the congregation for volunteers.

This was my point exactly. In past years we had the original selected 12 that were called up to have their feet washed by FATHER. After that he asked anyone wanting to take part. We usually had maybe another 7 or 8. BUT FATHER WASHED THEIR FEET. It was not the original 12 that washed feet, and then choosing another group to wash their feet and so on and so on, as this parish is contemplating. You would loose the whole meaning of the liturgy! Not to mention that this is not called for nor provided for in the rubrics. I’m sorry but this idea is just plain wrong!

 

[Karl_M]

Hello,

It’s common in these parts to wash women’s feet on Holy Thursday. I had heard that it’s only supposed to be men’s feet to be symbolic of the twelve male apostles.

So, here’s the question:

Can anyone point to a specific line in a specific document that expressly states it can only be men?

It’s too late for this year, but at least I can stop it for next year.

It took a year to get Holy Water back for Lent, so I don’t mind the wait.

 

[bpbasilphx]

In IN THIS HOUSE OF BREDE, there’s a reference to the abbess washing 12 nuns’ feet.

 

[puzzleannie]

In IN THIS HOUSE OF BREDE, there’s a reference to the abbess washing 12 nuns’ feet.

and that is a reference to a religious order (in the pre V-2 church) following the discipline and rites for use within and enclosed monastery or convent. OP is asking about current discipline, and yes, there are one or 2 ongoing threads that have just addressed this question, and I am sure those knowledgeable of the liturgical docs have already posted what you are looking for. I will try to bring those links up in a moment.

 

[japhy]

Can anyone point to a specific line in a specific document that expressly states it can only be men?

The Roman Missal and Paschale Solemnitatis say “viri selecti” which means “chosen men”, “men” in the sense of males. However, certain bishops have received permission to include women. I don’t expect the Pope will be washing the feet of any women, but rather the feet of some other ordained ministers… perhaps recently installed Cardinals?

And (someone else brought this to my attention, maybe PaixGoiaAmor?) no liturgical document I’ve seen specifies 12 people… that is, the number is not stated.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Well I suppose you have to get down to the understanding, of just what Jesus was telling us, by washing the feet of the Apostles?

Wasn’t it that in order to be part of his Kingdom, we had to serve one another, not just a specific group of persons?

Jesus action was one of humility. This is what is we are taught to emulate this evening.

Jim

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

Why is there a new thread on this when there are already 2 or 3 others discussing this?

 

[scylla]

Well I suppose you have to get down to the understanding, of just what Jesus was telling us, by washing the feet of the Apostles?

Wasn’t it that in order to be part of his Kingdom, we had to serve one another, not just a specific group of persons?

Jesus action was one of humility. This is what is we are taught to emulate this evening.

Jim

I agree that the teaching of Jesus is one of humility and service. Yet in the Mass humility also involves not putting current fashion, or pride above our obedience.
In representing Christ, and the action of Christ washing the feet of the Apostles it is best represented by using men to represent the Apostles.
In the same way it is profoundly insulting if I dress up as a man, put on a veil and say I am acting in the place of the Blessed Mother just because I want to be included. Both men and women have dignity, and contrary to modern desire to destroy the separate dignity we need to uphold it and realize that there is a difference between men and women.
Service is then taken on by the Apostles to not act over others but serving others as spiritual fathers.
The men who have their feet washed should then take the command seriously to serve others and we should imitate their mandate to imitate Christ. Just because a person is not having their feet washed doesn’t exclude them from the command to serve others.

It is a denial of Christ to say that the reason He chose only men was because of culture, God is not bound by culture. He does things as He wants, and we should be obedient to God not to ourselves.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Catholic_Home]

I logged in this morning to look at the foot washing threads after being somewhat sickened last night at our Holy Thursday Mass.

There were twelve.

That was OK.

Ten of them were women.

That was disturbing.

Eight were in very short skirts.

Seven of those were wearing spiked heels.

The eighth wore fringed cowboy boots.

Our Mass was held in our parish hall to accommodate crowds that weren’t there. The Altar and foot washing took place on the stage, so that when these women sat down, one had a clear view up their skirts.

While I don’t like it, I understand that my pastor is OK with washing the feet of women. However, for a priest to be kneeling at a level of immodestly dressed women, washing their feet … well, it made me a little ill.

 

[mschrank]

Hehe, my wife and I could not make it to our regular Parish, so we went to this really “progressive” one near where we live. I’m not kidding probably 100 people got their feet washed, in a communion style line. The ceremony went on for about 20-25 minutes.

Then in the pamphlet it said the foot washing was supposed to symbolize the service of Christians, when AFAIK, it has to do with the Priesthood.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

scylla

I agree that the teaching of Jesus is one of humility and service. Yet in the Mass humility also involves not putting current fashion, or pride above our obedience.
In representing Christ, and the action of Christ washing the feet of the Apostles it is best represented by using men to represent the Apostles.

But the lesson Christ was teaching was not about washing feet, but for us to understand, that we are to never put ourselves above others. That the greatest among us, is to be a servant to the lowest.

If Holy Thursday was about being historically accurate, the priest doing the foot washing, would have to strip down to his underwear and tie a cloth around his waist, as Christ did.

Foot washing was part of the culture in the time of Christ and men never washed the feet of women, but women were usually assigned the task of washing the feet of men. Jesus taught within the context of the culture, because it was how the lesson would best be heard by the people of that time. God is not restrained by time, neither should we be. There are ways to convey the lessons Christ taught, within the context of our own culture. In fact, its when we attempt to go outside of our culture, that many people get lost and miss the message we’re trying to convey.

Jim

 

[benedictgal]

scylla

But the lesson Christ was teaching was not about washing feet, but for us to understand, that we are to never put ourselves above others. That the greatest among us, is to be a servant to the lowest.

If Holy Thursday was about being historically accurate, the priest doing the foot washing, would have to strip down to his underwear and tie a cloth around his waist, as Christ did.

Foot washing was part of the culture in the time of Christ and men never washed the feet of women, but women were usually assigned the task of washing the feet of men. Jesus taught within the context of the culture, because it was how the lesson would best be heard by the people of that time. God is not restrained by time, neither should we be. There are ways to convey the lessons Christ taught, within the context of our own culture. In fact, its when we attempt to go outside of our culture, that many people get lost and miss the message we’re trying to convey.

Jim

Jim, I don’t know if you caught the broadcast (or the replay) of the Holy Father’s celebration of the Evening Mass of the Lord’s Supper. He noted that there is a deeper meaning to the washing of the feet. Peter challenged Jesus not to wash his feet. Jesus told him that unless Peter has his feet washed, he has no part of the Lord’s inheritance. Peter then wants Jesus to just wash everything. Jesus said that one who has already bathed doesn’t need another bath; but, not all of them are clean (referring to Judas). The bath Jesus speaks of, concerning Peter and the others, is the Jewish ritual bath before meals. The apostolic band had already bathed. But, their feet got dirty on the way to the Passover. Therefore, their feet needed to be cleansed.

Pope Benedict said that we are bathed in baptism; however, our feet touch the soil of the earth (sin). Therefore, we need purification before we can come to the Sacrificial meal (the Mass–which is both a Holy Sacrifice and a Sacred Meal). Through the ministry of the priest, Jesus washes our feet through confession. Thus we are being made clean.

Yes, service is an important aspect of it. The Holy Father washed the feet of 12 elderly priests while wearing a dalmatic, the deacon’s vestment. However, while all of us are called to serve, the Holy Father managed to hit the proverbial nail on the head when he differentiated the kind of service that this ritual washing of the feet signifies.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Jim, I don’t know if you caught the broadcast (or the replay) of the Holy Father’s celebration of the Evening Mass of the Lord’s Supper. He noted that there is a deeper meaning to the washing of the feet. Peter challenged Jesus not to wash his feet. Jesus told him that unless Peter has his feet washed, he has no part of the Lord’s inheritance. Peter then wants Jesus to just wash everything. Jesus said that one who has already bathed doesn’t need another bath; but, not all of them are clean (referring to Judas). The bath Jesus speaks of, concerning Peter and the others, is the Jewish ritual bath before meals. The apostolic band had already bathed. But, their feet got dirty on the way to the Passover. Therefore, their feet needed to be cleansed.

Pope Benedict said that we are bathed in baptism; however, our feet touch the soil of the earth (sin). Therefore, we need purification before we can come to the Sacrificial meal (the Mass–which is both a Holy Sacrifice and a Sacred Meal). Through the ministry of the priest, Jesus washes our feet through confession. Thus we are being made clean.

Yes, service is an important aspect of it. The Holy Father washed the feet of 12 elderly priests while wearing a dalmatic, the deacon’s vestment. However, while all of us are called to serve, the Holy Father managed to hit the proverbial nail on the head when he differentiated the kind of service that this ritual washing of the feet signifies.

The point Jesus was making was humility. Just as Jesus told them, “if I your teacher have done this for you, so must you do it for each other.” He’s not talking about washing each other’s feet for the sake of purification from sin, but rather, that they are to be in humble service to one another. Keep in mind, earlier before this took place, James and John were bickering on who of them was the greatest, and then they went to Jesus and ask to be seated at his right hand, when he took his thrown in Heaven.

I disagree with the Pope, IF he is saying that the footwashing is a symbol of purification, from sin. Thats not what the Gospel presence us with. If it is as Pope Benedict says, according to your post, then the entire congregation should have their feet washed.

Jim

 

[rpp]

It is a denial of Christ to say that the reason He chose only men was because of culture, God is not bound by culture. He does things as He wants, and we should be obedient to God not to ourselves.

(Emphasis mine) This is a very profound observation. It is one which we must always keep in mind. Thank you, Scylla.