Fellow Protestants, How would you answer this?

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EricCKS

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Eph 5
25] Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
26] that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
27] that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

In your view, when Paul writes “as Christ loved the church”, “that he might present the church to himself in splendor”… Who, What Where, is the church? I would like to understand where you may be coming from here.

Thanks

Eric
 
Hi there Eric,

It depends on how you view the Church. To answer the question of whom, it is the body of believer’s. Who are the body of believer’s? It is those who place their trust, belief, faith and obedience to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The body of believer’s can be in the North, East, South and West. To answer where they are it is the body of believer’s who are here on Earth and in Heaven.

🙂 Melissa
 
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Truthseeker4:
Hi there Eric,

It depends on how you view the Church. To answer the question of whom, it is the body of believer’s. Who are the body of believer’s? It is those who place their trust, belief, faith and obedience to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The body of believer’s can be in the North, East, South and West. To answer where they are it is the body of believer’s who are here on Earth and in Heaven.

🙂 Melissa
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The “invisible” church, in other words.
 
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EricCKS:
In your view, when Paul writes “as Christ loved the church”, “that he might present the church to himself in splendor”… Who, What Where, is the church? I would like to understand where you may be coming from here.
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As the Truthseeker said, this is usualy taken as meaning the collective body of believers everywhere, rather than any self-identiying organisation.

After all, who are we to tell God whom to admit?
 
These passages refer to Christ giving himself up for the salvation of his people. All of those who are born again and a part of the body of Christ are the Church. Not just one denomination or another.
 
If the “invisible chuch” theory is true…why did the Romans keep finding them for torture and fodder for the circus?

in XT.
 
These passages refer to Christ giving himself up for the salvation of his people. All of those who are born again and a part of the body of Christ are the Church. Not just one denomination or another.
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Jmj

Chris LaRock, is there Biblical support for being “born again” in the sense I assume you are referring to? I do not think there is. Not knowing your specific Protestant background, I can’t be sure, but you are most likely referring to an emotional and mental experience – that HOPEFULLY will have an effect on one’s soul. The true nature of being “born again” is explicitly referring to the sacrament of Baptism my friend.

There is no Biblical support for the statement that “accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior - is what makes a person a Christian.” However… though this is inadequate, it IS a great thing to do!

Also, I think it might be cool if you could just do some research on what a “denomination” is… or maybe what a “Protestant” is. Simply using a dictionary might even prove useful. The Catholic Church is not a denomination – other churches are denominations. If you are not a Catholic (I think it’s safe to assume you are not) and you believe you are a Christian – you are a member of a Protestant-Christian “denomination” – even if you are the ONLY member! I (personally) think you should become a true “non-denominational” Christian… and come home to the Catholic Church! 😃 You will always be welcome in your home – and His Church is your home!

May the Lord be with you!

Jason
 
**Matthew 18:15-17:

"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.**

If there is an invisible church, where does one go to settle a dispute?
 
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AquinasXVI:
If the “invisible chuch” theory is true…why did the Romans keep finding them for torture and fodder for the circus?

in XT.
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I’m a former Protestant. When they speak of “invisible,” Protestants don’t mean ONLY or LITERALLY “cannot be discerned with the faculty of sight.” They mean that those who are converted to Christ, born again, redeemed, constitute the Church and that may include those in a wide variety of Churches/ecclessial communities/sects.

Also, “born again,” for them generally, refers to conversion to Christ, which may or may not be an “emotional” or “mental” experience, but an experience of the will, ie., the act of turning to and submitting to Christ, asking for His Forgiveness, etc. We as Catholics believe that this is begun in baptism and may well not be completely accomplished until our deaths. We don’t believe that it isn’t needed, though we don’t generally refer to it in the same terms as Protestants do.

There is a great deal of misunderstanding of each others words sometimes. I think it’s important to define terms.
 
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EricCKS:
Eph 5
25] Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
26] that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
27] that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

In your view, when Paul writes “as Christ loved the church”, “that he might present the church to himself in splendor”… Who, What Where, is the church? I would like to understand where you may be coming from here.

Thanks

Eric
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The Church is the mystical body of Christ, currently subsisting in the visible company of all the baptized who call on Christ’s name. The Church is in pilgrimage in this world, which means that it contains much sin and error. When Christ returns the Church will reach its fruition as the spotless bride of the Lamb’s Supper.

Edwin
 
FIrst of all I do not want to argue with any of you. There have been doubts, concerns and questions that need to be answered. I am here to get questions answered!

I don’t mean to divert from the OP but to give you a glimpse of what is going on inside my mind. I am not sure what you are referring to as the “invisible Church.” Examples off the top of my head for a visible Church is how the Churches have been highly visible in the Hurricane Relief Efforts and missionary efforts in countries that are being so badly persecuted right now for the faith! To me the Church is highly visible but sadly highly divided. To me Jesus said one Church and one can clearly see this is not so. Did he mean one that is composed of only the body of believer’s? The one where believer’s go to assemble? Could it possibly be both?

Growing up and going to a Methodist and Baptist Church nothing was said about Catholics or other denominations. In essence it was another Church teaching about Jesus. My Aunt and Uncle are Catholics but nothing was ever said on things they did at the dinner table i.e. the sign of the cross and saying In the Name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. At least what I can remember. It wasn’t until I started investigating later on in life the key questions, what do I believe? Is it true? Did Jesus really exist?

At this point in time something happened and I do not think it is by chance. I have prayed and asked various questions to Jesus because I want to know the Truth! I believe I am being led by the Holy Spirit. My prayers are being answered.

I just finished reading Rome Sweet Home by Scott & Kimberly Hahn. I thought it was amazing that the things that he wrote about I already believed it. Only that by reading the scriptures I could see that there were errors in interpreting. I had no idea that I was correct nor do I believe I have 100% of the truth.

That I had been protesting the Protestants for a long time on issues but had no other backing to draw from. The only reason I labeled myself as a Protestant because I thought that those who were not Catholic were Protestants. I am in the military and on the dog tags you can have stamped on there your religious affiliation. Mine is stamped Christian.

This post was by no means of attacking anyone. It was to give you a glimpse into my heart and mind and the internal struggle that is going on.

I merely want to Love my Lord with all my heart, all my mind, and all my soul. To love him is to obey him. To learn more about him. That is finding out the Truth. To hear those beloved words “well done good and faithful servant and not depart from me I never knew you!”

🙂 Melissa
 
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