Female altar servers at Latin Mass

[LovedMyAlydar]

What I really don’t understand is why people would want to start changing the TLM? What would be the point, there is a changed version of it called NO.

The TLM is just that, traditional.

 

[SnorterLuster]

Please don’t use the term “girl altar boys” it is not only insulting to my daughter who does serve but it is an abvious snide little dig. Very childish.

Your post seems filled with paranoia. Calm down for heavens sake.

Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black, his “childish remarks” got you all in a snit. I would think an adult would let it pass without considering it an insult.

And then you tell Mao to calm down. My, My.

 

[AnthonyJ]

My pastor made an announcement before last Sunday’s TLM asking specifically if any boys would like to serve the TLM. While he didn’t mention whether girls can or can not serve, I think everyone got his subtle message.

 

[otjm]

What I really don’t understand is why people would want to start changing the TLM? What would be the point, there is a changed version of it called NO.

The TLM is just that, traditional.

I am not sure the OP wanted to change anything; I think it was a question of “is this a possiblity?”.

It would appear that it may be a legal possiblity. What also might need to be considered is that if it is legally possible, and if the parish considering the EF already uses female altar servers, and if the group which wishes to have the EF is not a large segment of the parish, then it may be possible that in some limited circumstances, female altar servers could be a possiblity. It could be argued until the cows come home that female altar servers have absolutely no place in the EF; however, those making that arguement are not acknowledging that the EF, over the centuries, has had changes (and I do not suggest that they are any of them as great as the changes between the EF and the OF). Already the Pope has suggested some minor possible changes to the EF; so he apparently does not see it as rigidly unchangeable. And given the above possiblities, it might be much less striking to those not accustomed to the EF to see altar girls serving.

The reality is that it is unlikely to happen, or if it does, to be very limited in scope.

Most changes to the EF over the centuries have been relatively minor. Given its history and the directions of the Council, it certainly is not out of the realm of possiblities that further changes could occur to the EF (and, as well, to the OF). Time will tell.

 

[childofmary1143]

In the 1983 Code of Canon Law, they are permitted when absolutely necessary, but not recommended, as it is acknowledged that the position of altar boy is a means of cultivating priestly vocations.

I have never heard of that exception before. Can you provide a citation for that please?

 

[stmaria]

He is certainly within his rights under canon law to refuse to have altar girls at his Masses.

However, it would seem unlawful for him to deny Communion in the hand to a communicant

 

[ThereCanBeOnly1]

Will female altar servers be permitted in the Latin Mass?

Greetings,

This is of course not permitted. Logically, if you would like changes to any form or matter of the Mass you must attend the Novus Ordo service. Likewise, altar boys are permitted in the TLM and not altar girls. It is not so dissimilar to priests/bishops/cardinal/Popes who are notably men, without exception. And let us not forget the 12 Apostles of Yeshua (Jesus).I am confident that Yeshua who is GOD knew precisely what He was doing in choosing the 12

God Bless

 

[ThereCanBeOnly1]

Let’s keep the discussion on topic, please. This is a good thread, let’s not get it closed down. Maybe it would be good to start a thread on female “priests.”

Thanks!

Female priests is an oxymoron. If one desires female priests you only need go to a non-Catholic denomination such as the Anglican Church.

GOD Bless.

 

[LindaCapp]

I am not sure the OP wanted to change anything; I think it was a question of “is this a possiblity?”.

Yes, OTJM, you are right about the intent of the question. I’m certainly not trying to change anything, nor was the individual who posed the original question to me. In fact, I’d be very surprised if the TLM was ever celebrated at our parish. It’s quite small and we have one, elderly priest. We also have a lack of boys who volunteer to be altar servers at our Masses. We’d be in a pickle if the girls had the same attitude.

It would be nice to see a dedicated, large group of altar boys; but that’s not the reality at our parish.

 

[LindaCapp]

I am not sure the OP wanted to change anything; I think it was a question of “is this a possiblity?”.

Yes, OTJM, you are right about the intent of the question. I’m certainly not trying to change anything, nor was the individual who posed the original question to me. In fact, I’d be very surprised if the TLM was ever celebrated at our parish. It’s quite small and we have one, elderly priest. We also have a lack of boys who volunteer to be altar servers at our Masses. We’d be in a pickle if the girls had the same attitude.

It would be nice to see a dedicated, large group of altar boys; but that’s not the reality at our parish.

 

[otjm]

Sure;2799444:

I noticed something very different about the host when I received it,{ on the tongue} It seemed be be stiff. The host in the TLM melts in your mouth and is very thin. I would thing that hosts in the OF need to be made sitff because of communion in the hand. The stiffness would prevent particles from breaking off.
The softer and thinner host in the TLM is not made to be put in the hand. I am quite sure this was not my imagination. There did seem to be a difference in the texture of the two hosts.

The hosts were made thicker becasue the objective was to make them more bread-like, not because they were to be placed in the hand. “Take and eat” is not the same as “Take and dissolve in the mouth”.

 

[catcher5]

Linda, I’d bet the TLM would bring the boys out of the woodwork to serve Mass at your parish.

 

[otjm]

Greetings,

This is of course not permitted. Logically, if you would like changes to any form or matter of the Mass you must attend the Novus Ordo service. Likewise, altar boys are permitted in the TLM and not altar girls. It is not so dissimilar to priests/bishops/cardinal/Popes who are notably men, without exception. And let us not forget the 12 Apostles of Yeshua (Jesus).I am confident that Yeshua who is GOD knew precisely what He was doing in choosing the 12

God Bless

You have not, however, cited anything which so indicates. The issue of girls serving is an issue of a change in Canon law, not the form of the TLM. The form of the TLM is not superior to Canon law, but subject to it.

Canon law allows the issue of altar girls to be decided locally; that is, they are not required, but rather allowed. Given that the TLM is subject to current Canon law, then by law they would be allowed but not required.

So, if a priest were to say the TLM and have an altar girl, he would not be violating any law; the issue is not an issue to rubrics but rather of Canon law.

He would, however, be doing something that had not occured prior to the change in Canon law, and that would not sit well with some.

The issue is not “would a priest do this” but rather, “could a priest do this”. Other than what might be called peer pressure, it appears that it is not restricted. I seriously doubt it will be an issue, except perhaps in isolated instances.

 

[otjm]

Linda, I’d bet the TLM would bring the boys out of the woodwork to serve Mass at your parish.

Time will tell. However, if they are not attracted to the Mass as it is, I have to wonder if it will be that big an issue with a 12 or 13 year old boy.

Having grown up under the TLM, in a 20 year span I was the only one from my parish who went to the seminary. I know there are parishes with multiple vocations, but they are no more frequent now than they really were then. Out of my freshman college class, there were about between 20 and 25 who were from the Archdiocese; the class was about 30. And that is out of about 120 parishes and 20 missions, so roughly 1 out of 6 to one out of 7 parishes - and this at a time of high numbers of vocations.

Serving Mass was something you did that seemed more related to being in a Catholic grade school than it did to the form of the Mass. I think there was maybe one altar server who did not attend the local Catholic grade school.

Given the comments about being able to get Mass servers, it doesn’t seem to be emphasized much by parents of boys now to get them to serve.

 

[LindaCapp]

Linda, I’d bet the TLM would bring the boys out of the woodwork to serve Mass at your parish.

Oh, wouldn’t that be wonderful! But, as I said, it will probably never be an issue because we’re not likely to see the TLM at our parish anytime soon.

 

[LindaCapp]

Time will tell. However, if they are not attracted to the Mass as it is, I have to wonder if it will be that big an issue with a 12 or 13 year old boy.

True. After all, God Almighty is not any less present in one Mass than another. Although sometimes it can seem that way . . .

 

[anamchara]

Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black, his “childish remarks” got you all in a snit. I would think an adult would let it pass without considering it an insult.

And then you tell Mao to calm down. My, My.

I take it you agree with the ridiculous term or you wouldn’t have had a problem with my comments it’s ok to be a bit in a snit as long as it’s supporting your side, right? It is an insulting term and actually childish may not even be a good enough word for it. I’ll have to go check out my thesaurus see if I can find a better word good day to you snorterluster

 

[Sure]

Sure;2799444:

He is certainly within his rights under canon law to refuse to have altar girls at his Masses…

I just though of another reason communion in the hand will not be allowed in the TLM or at least in a TLM celebrated by a FFSP or Christ the King priest.
I haven’t been to a OF Mass in quite a while but when I was on vacation this past summer I went to one because there was not a Traditional Mass in the area. I noticed something very different about the host when I received it,{ on the tongue} It seemed be be stiff. The host in the TLM melts in your mouth and is very thin. I would thing that hosts in the OF need to be made sitff because of communion in the hand. The stiffness would prevent particles from breaking off.
The softer and thinner host in the TLM is not made to be put in the hand. I am quite sure this was not my imagination. There did seem to be a difference in the texture of the two hosts.

Did you happen to hear back from your FSSP priest?

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, people choosing to receive in a legitimate approved manner should not be denied Communion. They cannot be denied for kneeling and they cannot be denied for receiving in the hand.

 

[lak611]

Time will tell. However, if they are not attracted to the Mass as it is, I have to wonder if it will be that big an issue with a 12 or 13 year old boy.

Having grown up under the TLM, in a 20 year span I was the only one from my parish who went to the seminary. I know there are parishes with multiple vocations, but they are no more frequent now than they really were then. Out of my freshman college class, there were about between 20 and 25 who were from the Archdiocese; the class was about 30. And that is out of about 120 parishes and 20 missions, so roughly 1 out of 6 to one out of 7 parishes - and this at a time of high numbers of vocations.

Serving Mass was something you did that seemed more related to being in a Catholic grade school than it did to the form of the Mass. I think there was maybe one altar server who did not attend the local Catholic grade school.

Given the comments about being able to get Mass servers, it doesn’t seem to be emphasized much by parents of boys now to get them to serve.

Nowadays, boys are so much more involved in sports, clubs at school, etc. Since many boys do not even have the motivation to serve at the OF, which requires very little training, it will probably be difficult to find boys who are willing to go through the training necessary to learn how to serve at the EF. I suspect that most servers at the EF will be men who served when they were boys.

 

[SnorterLuster]

Nowadays, boys are so much more involved in sports, clubs at school, etc. Since many boys do not even have the motivation to serve at the OF, which requires very little training, it will probably be difficult to find boys who are willing to go through the training necessary to learn how to serve at the EF. I suspect that most servers at the EF will be men who served when they were boys.

You might be surprised at what motivates boys. Though it was many years back when I was a boy, I still remember the feeling of mastering something difficult. Most of the boys, at least back then, were not much interested in “easy” tasks; rather, they wanted to tackle the difficult tasks. Since serving at the NO is not difficult, many boys would view it as a chore akin to housework. If it required study and discipline, many would be attracted to serving at the altar for the feeling of being somewhat special. The work involved in mastering the task would be rewarded by the feeling of a job well done and in front of your friends, relatives and neighbors as a bonus.