Female altar servers at Latin Mass

[estesbob]

Of course not!!! The liberals have the Novus Ordo. They can go there to sing contemporary songs, have altar girls, and lay ministers, and even speak in tongues as they all wave there hands in the air. Don’t infect the Mass of Ages!!! Why is there nothing sacred? I pray that the person who had this question is a new convert and just did not know any better. We must never forget Sacred Tradition. Not every detail is written in Canon Law pertaining to the Mass, especially ludicrious ideas that the Church fathers would never have dreamt of. Pray for us Sts. Peter and Paul.

I doubt the Church fathers would ever dreamed that mess would be celebrated in a language foreign to the participants.

The Pope did not roll the clock back to 1962. He merely allowed for the Tridentine mass to be said. The rubrics of 2007 apply to all masses celebrated regardless of what form they take. I suspect that there will be few if any Tridentine masses that will have f altar girls or give communion in the hand. But there is nothing to keep a priest from doing so. In addition the Vatican has said in no uncertain terms that you must give communion to a person whether they want in their hand or in their mouth. That is not the discretion of the Priest

 

[latinmass]

I doubt the Church fathers would ever dreamed that mess would be celebrated in a language foreign to the participants.

The Pope did not roll the clock back to 1962. He merely allowed for the Tridentine mass to be said. The rubrics of 2007 apply to all masses celebrated regardless of what form they take. I suspect that there will be few if any Tridentine masses that will have f altar girls or give communion in the hand. But there is nothing to keep a priest from doing so. In addition the Vatican has said in no uncertain terms that you must give communion to a person whether they want in their hand or in their mouth. That is not the discretion of the Priest

I need to research this, but I don’t believe you are accurate. The form of the old rite must remain intact, and the priest has the responsibility to uphold the form of the old rite. i.e. no rock music, receiving Christ on tongue only, and no altar girls, etc. Any help out there?

 

[drpmjhess]

Of course not!!! The liberals have the Novus Ordo. They can go there to sing contemporary songs, have altar girls, and lay ministers, and even speak in tongues as they all wave there hands in the air. Don’t infect the Mass of Ages!!! Why is there nothing sacred? .

Why baptize females?

 

[Sure]

I need to research this, but I don’t believe you are accurate. The form of the old rite must remain intact, and the priest has the responsibility to uphold the form of the old rite. i.e. no rock music, receiving Christ on tongue only, and no altar girls, etc. Any help out there?

No guitar music is correct because it is not liturgically appropriate at ANY Mass. Communion in the hand is permissible in the Latin Rite in the United States. The extraordinary form of the Mass is a part of the Latin Rite. Altar girls are also permitted in the Latin Rite, although a priest is not bound in any way to have them serve. If you read back through this thread you will see that these things are not governed by the Missal but rather by Canon Law. Just because a Missal from 1962 is used does not mean we go back in time to the canon laws of that time, we don’t.

I would not doubt that guidelines or specific rubrics might be issued by the Church to avoid these things, but as the law stands today, altar girls, communion in the hand, communion standing and extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion are permitted.

St. Maria,

Did you ever receive documentation from your FSSP priest on his opinion that Communion in the hand is not permitted and that he would refuse to offer Communion in that manner?

Thanks!

 

[latinmass]

Why baptize females?

The same reason the Church baptized you. Because you want to live your life for Christ in obedience. Altar boys are a stepping stone to the priesthood. We don’t want to give anyone the wrong idea do we? We need to be obedient to Sacred Tradition. St. Paul is clear on our roles in the Church. The liberals want to blur the roles. That is why we have both women and men not fullfilling their roles in the Church today.

 

[drpmjhess]

No guitar music is correct because it is not liturgically appropriate at ANY Mass.!

I tend to prefer traditional organ and choir music, because I’m a classically trained old fogey. But it just seems silly to make the global claim that guitar music is not liturgically appropriate at any Mass. Would you extend this ban to any instrument? Flute? Trumpet? Saxophone? Violin? Lute? We have all these instruments at our Masses, and it makes for a lovely celebration.

 

[estesbob]

I need to research this, but I don’t believe you are accurate. The form of the old rite must remain intact, and the priest has the responsibility to uphold the form of the old rite. i.e. no rock music, receiving Christ on tongue only, and no altar girls, etc. Any help out there?

The pope said nothing about returning to the rubrics of 1962.

Michelle Arnold explains it here:\

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=192418

 

[Sure]

I tend to prefer traditional organ and choir music, because I’m a classically trained old fogey. But it just seems silly to make the global claim that guitar music is not liturgically appropriate at any Mass. Would you extend this ban to any instrument? Flute? Trumpet? Saxophone? Violin? Lute? We have all these instruments at our Masses, and it makes for a lovely celebration.

Sorry, I’ll revise that. Guitar music that is not sacred…for example guitar strumming that is based on a “folk/pop” style of music rather than a tradition of sacred music. It is a mistake to take elements of popular music and artificially inject them into the Mass. So, a guitar could be used perhaps played classically to accompany sacred music but the strumming, foot-pounding, folk anthems are totally out of place in the sacred liturgy.

 

[latinmass]

No guitar music is correct because it is not liturgically appropriate at ANY Mass. Communion in the hand is permissible in the Latin Rite in the United States. The extraordinary form of the Mass is a part of the Latin Rite. Altar girls are also permitted in the Latin Rite, although a priest is not bound in any way to have them serve. If you read back through this thread you will see that these things are not governed by the Missal but rather by Canon Law. Just because a Missal from 1962 is used does not mean we go back in time to the canon laws of that time, we don’t.

I would not doubt that guidelines or specific rubrics might be issued by the Church to avoid these things, but as the law stands today, altar girls, communion in the hand, communion standing and extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion are permitted.

St. Maria,

Did you ever receive documentation from your FSSP priest on his opinion that Communion in the hand is not permitted and that he would refuse to offer Communion in that manner?

Thanks!

Thanks for the info. I pray that the priests don’t allow these travesties of sacred tradition. From what you say the Old Rite can be made a mockery of with altar girls and receiving on the hand. The SSPX must have been correct in there assessment of a watered down Latin Rite given by Rome. Let’s pray that guidelines are established so these abuses do not happen in the TLM. I can’t tell you how many guitars I’ve seen in the NO. What will happen to the TLM if not addressed at once?

 

[estesbob]

Sorry, I’ll revise that. Guitar music that is not sacred…for example guitar strumming that is based on a “folk/pop” style of music rather than a tradition of sacred music. It is a mistake to take elements of popular music and artificially inject them into the Mass. So, a guitar could be used perhaps played classically to accompany sacred music but the strumming, foot-pounding, folk anthems are totally out of place in the sacred liturgy.

Perhaps in this country but may be quite appropriate in other cultures,. This may surprise you but wehad contemporary nusic Tridentine guitar masses when I was a kid. We also had Tridentine masses where trumpets and drums used. There is no restriction then there is no restriction now.

 

[estesbob]

Thanks for the info. I pray that the priests don’t allow these travesties of sacred tradition. From what you say the Old Rite can be made a mockery of with altar girls and receiving on the hand. The SSPX must have been correct in there assessment of a watered down Latin Rite given by Rome. Let’s pray that guidelines are established so these abuses do not happen in the TLM. I can’t tell you how many guitars I’ve seen in the NO. What will happen to the TLM if not addressed at once?

I think you’re in for a rude awakening if the Tridentine mass becomes common in this country. Somehow traditionalists have convinced themselves that this mass is invincible, that it’s impossible to abuse it and will always be celebrated in the traditional manner they want.

 

[Sure]

Thanks for the info. I pray that the priests don’t allow these travesties of sacred tradition. From what you say the Old Rite can be made a mockery of with altar girls and receiving on the hand. The SSPX must have been correct in there assessment of a watered down Latin Rite given by Rome. Let’s pray that guidelines are established so these abuses do not happen in the TLM. I can’t tell you how many guitars I’ve seen in the NO. What will happen to the TLM if not addressed at once?

Let’s be clear though, altar girls are the law of the Church, they are not an abuse. Communion in the hand is permitted and is not an abuse. You may not like these things, but the Church has permitted them so it would be incorrect to call them “abuses”.

I don’t think this will be much of an issue. The older priests who perpetrate most of the liturgical abuse are not about to begin saying extraordinary Masses. If I had to guess, I would say altar girls in an EF Mass would be VERY rare, if nonexistent. Guitar music also would be basically nonexistent in an EF Mass.

The one I think will be seen is Communion in the hand. Priests need to accept that that is the law of the Church and not refuse those who approach for Communion in the hand. Especially as EF Masses are offered at parishes that normally celebrate the OF. There will be some in the congregation who are not aware of the custom of communion on the tongue in the EF and they will approach for communion in the hand.

 

[drpmjhess]

Sorry, I’ll revise that. Guitar music that is not sacred…for example guitar strumming that is based on a “folk/pop” style of music rather than a tradition of sacred music. It is a mistake to take elements of popular music and artificially inject them into the Mass. So, a guitar could be used perhaps played classically to accompany sacred music but the strumming, foot-pounding, folk anthems are totally out of place in the sacred liturgy.

Thanks for the revision. The key point is not what instruments are used, but how prayerfully. One of the most wonderful liturgical experiences I had was a Mass celebrated by a Carmelite priest on the summit of a North American peak during a climbing expedition. We had a granite boulder for an altar, he wore climbing clothes for vestments, used a tin cup for the chalice, and the candles would not stay lit in the high wind. We made music with our voices, shared the readings from a travel missal, and celebrated the beauties of God’s creation with a 360 degree view of mountains, snowfield, forests and sparking streams.

Petrus

 

[drpmjhess]

Sorry, I’ll revise that. Guitar music that is not sacred…for example guitar strumming that is based on a “folk/pop” style of music rather than a tradition of sacred music. It is a mistake to take elements of popular music and artificially inject them into the Mass. So, a guitar could be used perhaps played classically to accompany sacred music but the strumming, foot-pounding, folk anthems are totally out of place in the sacred liturgy.

Right – organ music is probably not sacred if it is drawn from the rock concert genre.

Petrus

 

[estesbob]

Right – organ music is probably not sacred if it is drawn from the rock concert genre.

Petrus

I doubt if they played one at the Last Supper

 

[Cat]

I only read through the first five pages of this thread, so perhaps this already got posted.

The question was asked in the CAF Apologetics forum, and here is the apologists answer:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=192418

Women are OK.

 

[Jakub]

Thats nice, I will wait to see what comes from those in authority…

james

 

[estesbob]

Thats nice, I will wait to see what comes from those in authority…

james

Those in authority have spoken.Altar girls and communion in the hand is allowed regardless of which Mass is being celebrated,

 

[Cranch]

Just because a Missal from 1962 is used does not mean we go back in time to the canon laws of that time, we don’t.

I would not doubt that guidelines or specific rubrics might be issued by the Church to avoid these things, but as the law stands today, altar girls, communion in the hand, communion standing and extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion are permitted.

Summorum Pontificum, in article 1 says:It is, therefore, permissible to celebrate the Sacrifice of the Mass following the typical edition of the Roman Missal promulgated by Bl. John XXIII in 1962 and never abrogated.
The use (and behavior) of EMHCs in the OF is governed by specific rubrics as well as canon law. There are no corresponding rubrics in the EF. EMHCs cannot be simply injected into the TLM willy-nilly. They cannot be used there and not only because the chalice is not offered to the congregation.

 

[estesbob]

Summorum Pontificum, in article 1 says:It is, therefore, permissible to celebrate the Sacrifice of the Mass following the typical edition of the Roman Missal promulgated by Bl. John XXIII in 1962 and never abrogated.
The use (and behavior) of EMHCs in the OF is governed by specific rubrics as well as canon law. There are no corresponding rubrics in the EF. EMHCs cannot be simply injected into the TLM willy-nilly. They cannot be used there and not only because the chalice is not offered to the congregation.

Yes they are-the rubrics and cannon law currently in effect.