Female Altar Servers?

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Frank_J said:
Hi Aramis,

In the ealy Church there were women as Deaconesses. It die out for some reason why I not sure on but I do know that the early Church had them. Deaconesses are not allow at the Altar they are or were used when it came to just baptism. I never ever herd of them ever being used for as Ministers of Holy Communion.

Will need to look into that will find out but I feel that I’m right on this. Will look it up tomorrow getting late

Have a good day.

Frank J
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The word deaconesss is really ambigous and does not really mean a female deacon. It is more similar to nuns who help preparing the hosts and the material for the mass. Nothing else.

There is nothing worst than having a girl and a boy serving at the same time. It is disguisting.
 
Frank_J said:
Hi Aramis,

He is what you are looking for and I felt that it would take long to look up what so ever.

westernorthodoxy.org/pdf/restored.pdf
Greek Orthodox Church ordaining women as Deaconesses and there liturgical role.

I hope this answers your statement on women as Deaconesses.

Have a great day.

Frank J
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Ok first of all, I do not trust this article to be accurate. The Author of the article has a bias towards the Catholic Church not ordaining women. In fact she is in favor of having women priests. This is probably why the journalism of the article is not quite exact in detail to deaconesses. She is promoting an agenda in this article, and it can be seen by her calling deaconesses “deacons.”

Her whole agenda can be seen here( womenpriests.org/deacons/zagano2.asp )where she compares the ordination of deacons to the elevation of the priesthood. She is pushing for women to be ordained to the priesthood, and she views it as if women are ordained to the diaconate why not the priesthood?
 
My only question is what need is there for deaconesses nowadays? Deaconesses once existed at a time to help priests when it came to women. This was to help prevent scandal. Deaconesses in the early church prepared women for baptism because at that time everybody was baptized naked. What makes people think that Deaconesses did more than assist priests when it came to women? One thing I will say is that a Deacon has a limited liturgical function why would a deaconess have the same?
 
victus said:
My only question is what need is there for deaconesses nowadays? Deaconesses once existed at a time to help priests when it came to women. This was to help prevent scandal. Deaconesses in the early church prepared women for baptism because at that time everybody was baptized naked. What makes people think that Deaconesses did more than assist priests when it came to women? One thing I will say is that a Deacon has a limited liturgical function why would a deaconess have the same?
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What?!

Maybe men without shirts but you’ve got your research messed up.
 
Whether they were baptized naked or not is somewhat irrelevant. It was simply against cultural norms to have men touching any woman who was not his wife or family memeber in public in anyway. Without deaconesses, women would have not been able to be baptized or recieve any sort of anointing.
 
Pro_Domina said:
The word deaconesss is really ambigous and does not really mean a female deacon. It is more similar to nuns who help preparing the hosts and the material for the mass. Nothing else.Could have been quote your source on that please.

There is nothing worst than having a girl and a boy serving at the same time. It is disguisting.**Dear Pro, pray on what you said. Disguisting is a strong word to use. :tsktsk: I don’t like females at the altar, regardless of age, but I would never say it was disguisting.:bigyikes:

God bless**
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**What?!

Maybe men without shirts but you’ve got your research messed up.**

**ProDomina, St. Cyril of Jerusalem in his mystagogical lectures (given after baptism) said something to this effect, “Oh, what a wonder! You were like Adam and Eve before the fall: naked, but not ashamed.”

There are plenty of references, both in art and in writings, of adult baptisms being done in the nude. Even a simple Google search will yield them.

This finds its precedent in the Jewish rite of the Mikveh, still done for receiving converts (even Gentile-born infants), who must be immersed in the mikveh naked. Women converting have a female chaperone who stands by while the Beth Din (three men) come in just long enough to see the woman’s hair floating on top of the water.**
 
If David was tempted by a woman showering and fell, do you think an **unneccesary **thing like being naked for Baptism will bring graces of state?

And to the other guy on my words:
Disgusting because then it happens that they start dating each other. Seen it a bunch of times.
 
Pro_Domina said:
The word deaconesss is really ambigous and does not really mean a female deacon. It is more similar to nuns who help preparing the hosts and the material for the mass. Nothing else.Once again, Pro -could you quote your source on that please.?

If David was tempted by a woman showering and fell, do you think an **unneccesary **thing like being naked for Baptism will bring graces of state?**Now that is a good pont! 👍 **

And to the other guy on my words:
Disgusting because then it happens that they start dating each other. Seen it a bunch of times.**We normally don’t have teenagers as altar servers. They lose interest as they get into the dating age. I still wouldn’t think it was disgusting. But that is only my opinion.

God Bless!**
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Could say of the top of my head.
Did you know that having a date as your sponsor for a sacramenti is forbiden?

Now don’t you think that this rule of sacrality applies of the Mass?
 
Can you cite the canon please for the statement.

As for servers dating each other, yeah I do think that is a problem. It would only provide a distraction during which the servers should be paying attention to the Liturgy. That is a very good reason not to have female servers. My pastor actually perfers adult men serving or providing the serving leadership as opposed to boys. That also could be since we are a mission and not that many young boys attend frequently enough though 🤷
 
Pro_Domina said:
Couldn’t say off the top of my head.

**But Pro, my friend that is exactly what you did! You said “off the top of your head”: “The word deaconesss is really ambigous and does not really mean a female deacon. It is more similar to nuns who help preparing the hosts and the material for the mass. Nothing else.” **​

Did you know that having a date as your sponsor for a sacramenti is forbiden?

**Never read that one either. Let me guess ~ Off the top of your head again?🙂 Or can you quote your source for that statement? **

Now don’t you think that this rule of sacrality applies of the Mass?

**Logically it might! “If” it was in fact a true statement supported by the teachings of the RCC. I have never heard of it. Can I assume you got it “off the top of your head” again? 😃
And please understand that I am not in favor of females of any age being anywhere near the altar. As readers or music ministers OK. SMUs or alter servers I feel those all should be male positions. But you will notice I say “This is my opinion” I don’t state it as being taught by our church. Even when stating my own opinion, I wouldn’t say it was disgusting. That is a strong word! Some people come here to learn about our faith. **
**
JOKE TIME: ** The world’s second oldest joke know to man was found on the Westcar Papyrus. it is a gag about a pharaoh, widely thought to be King Snofru. It goes: “How do you entertain a bored pharaoh? You sail a boatload of young women dressed only in fishing nets down the Nile and urge the pharaoh to go catch a fish.” ( I posted the oldest known Joke
on the “Once saved, always saved” Thread, so I won’t repeat it here.😃

God Bless
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The word deaconesss is really ambigous and does not really mean a female deacon.

The word “deaconess” is quite specific. In Greek is it “diakonissa,” which is the feminine of “diakonos” (deacon).
 
bpbasilphx said:
The word deaconesss is really ambigous and does not really mean a female deacon.

The word “deaconess” is quite specific. In Greek is it “diakonissa,” which is the feminine of “diakonos” (deacon).
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**
👍 What I like about you is that you can say in one two sentence paragraph what it takes me a full page to express! 😃 **
 
Nice. But I meant as to its cognitive meaning and not etymological.

The thing about citations is that when you have several years of learning and knowing things extensively about many things, you tend to stick more with the information than with the source. When you do a serious study for a paper is another thing.
So I can tell you as a person who knows, but then I couldn’t really prove that to you on the internet.
 
Pro_Domina said:
Nice. But I meant as to its cognitive meaning and not etymological.

The thing about citations is that when you have several years of learning and knowing things extensively about many things, you tend to stick more with the information than with the source. When you do a serious study for a paper is another thing.
So I can tell you as a person who knows, but then I couldn’t really prove that to you on the internet.
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****I understand.👍 It might years to find the source again, and you might be mis-remembering what you read. I also am pretty sure that they had a function like a nun. Some research does indicate that, except they also say it is just their opinion, based on historical customs, etc. . As I am sure you know, we have a lot of Protestants that come on here and tell us things “That they know” . Even thought they are worng, many of them site sources. It is refreshing to have someone who “just knows things” Unfortunatly, that won’t work with many of our brothers and sisters here. :tsktsk: They will just think you are “talking off the top of your head” or blowing wind from a lower level. :extrahappy:

JOKE TIME: This is the Third Oldest Joke Known to man,Written in – 1200 B.C.
“Three ox drivers from Adab were thirsty: one owned the ox, the other owned the cow and the other owned the wagon’s load. The owner of the ox refused to get water because he feared his ox would be eaten by a lion; the owner of the cow refused because he thought his cow might wander off into the desert; the owner of the wagon refused because he feared his load would be stolen. So they all went. In their absence the ox made love to the cow which gave birth to a calf which ate the wagon’s load. Problem: Who owns the calf?”**
**
 
Frank_J said:
Hi bpbasilphx,

I’m in training to become a subdeacon in the Holy Orthodox Church. I look forward to serving GOD in this position as a subdeacon. Subdeacon are a part of minor orders and I know what I would have to give up if I enter Holy Order.

I like your remarks that and support them. You said and I quote: “The divinely given order is to have several tonsured readers and subdeacons, as well as at least one deacon, in every parish.” Right On! I’m 100% for that.

My view of female altar servers is one that I would never support. I could never serve alone side them and would never ever think of doing so. I see female altar servers as a big joke. We don’t need to follow Rome down that road, that would be the big mistake on our part.

Remember that Rome has the Jazz Mass and dancing girls at the Altar. I’ve may articals on the two thenking that I spoken about here. Look at the Catholics who are leaving the Church and that is since Rome changed their Mass from the Latin Tridentine Mass too Novus Ordo.

GOD bless you.

Your Orthodox brother.

Frank J
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Why so rude? What purpose did it serve other than to perhaps make yourself feel good about yourself? 😦
 
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