Female altar servers.

[snowlake]

c…guess what 2 weeks ago I noticed my twins had flip flops on while serving, I bet the whole congregation was in disbelief. No damage was done.

I noticed something like this at Mass 2 weeks ago, and indeed, it did have an effect. I
found it very disrespectful (on the part of the parents, not the kids). Were you or your spouse not aware what your children were wearing on their feet?

 

[Luger]

I am a 63 year old female and am an altar server at daily mass, funerals and any other time I am needed. Have found that not only do young boys not want to serve but older men as well. I agree that priests should be male but if women wish to serve it should be okay. I feel very honored to be able to serve at the table of our Lord. God Bless

I’m an adult male and I serve Mass. The Mass I attend (we have several each Sunday) is always served by adult males. For a while a group of adult females were trying to make a push into serving this Mass. In this case they were very much the “priestess” type and it was a huge turn-off. If they would have been successful in gaining a foothold I am absolutely certain they would have “taken over” – partially because other servers would not want to have been associated with them.

They never got their foothold. They complained about it. They were ignored (nothing new for my parish) and they eventually dispersed or moved on altogether.

 

[Luger]

what damage?
in my parish we have all boys altar server. in our diocese its allowed to have female altar servers, my former parish had 2/3s of their altar servers as females.

not just because the rule is there means you have to apply it. parishes can always prefer boys over girls. but if there are not enough boys, what can you do? you can’t keep squeezing a dry sponge and expect water to come out.

There are ALWAYS enough boys if enough of an effort is made.

 

[kozlosap]

I’m an adult male and I serve Mass. The Mass I attend (we have several each Sunday) is always served by adult males. For a while a group of adult females were trying to make a push into serving this Mass. In this case they were very much the “priestess” type and it was a huge turn-off. If they would have been successful in gaining a foothold I am absolutely certain they would have “taken over” – partially because other servers would not want to have been associated with them.

They never got their foothold. They complained about it. They were ignored (nothing new for my parish) and they eventually dispersed or moved on altogether.

Heaven forbid they want to serve, it’s scandalous! Also, isn’t it sad that women are now the majority in both med school and law school, those professions have always been a bastion of good o’l boys, how dare they intrude. Don’t accuse me of being politically correct either, I always taught my DD that men were priests and the biblical reasons for that fact, however, since it is “legal” to have female alter servers now I don’t understand the problem.

 

[CDNowak]

The practice of allowing females to serve at the altar is one fallout from dumping the Latin Mass and going to the Novus Ordo rite. In the Latin Mass, having young men assist at the altar was a logical first step toward vocations of men to the priesthood. Since women have been allowed to take over and push their agendas, what we are seeing is a feminization of the Mass and fewer men and boys in general attending. You see more girl altar servers than boys in the parishes I’ve attended. Contrast this to the Orthodox churches who don’t have a scarcity of males in their ranks. I can think of only a couple of dioceses in the US that don’t allow girl acolytes–Lincoln Nebraska coming to mind.

AyAyAy… It was the change in canon law (coupled with Ministeria Quaedam) that eventually allowed altar girls, not the change in the Mass. And no diocese allows girl acolytes, most only allow seminarians to become acolytes despite the intent of Ministeria Quaedam.

perhaps the order you are looking at this is the other way around
female altar servers were allowed because fewer men and boys are attending and even fewer are willing to serve in the Mass

Not in my experience, no parish was so starved for servers (see my response below) that they had to allow altar girls. However in 1994-1995 I do know that most of the altar boys quit as the altar girls came in (and the moms wrenched the annual picnic from the knights, etc.).

what damage?
in my parish we have all boys altar server. in our diocese its allowed to have female altar servers, my former parish had 2/3s of their altar servers as females.

What damage? I believe you answered your own question.

not just because the rule is there means you have to apply it. parishes can always prefer boys over girls. but if there are not enough boys, what can you do? you can’t keep squeezing a dry sponge and expect water to come out.

Altar servers are not required in the OF. At all. If there are not enough boys or men the priest can say the Mass without servers.

 

[snowlake]

Heaven forbid they want to serve, it’s scandalous! Also, isn’t it sad that women are now the majority in both med school and law school, those professions have always been a bastion of good o’l boys, how dare they intrude. Don’t accuse me of being politically correct either, I always taught my DD that men were priests and the biblical reasons for that fact, however, since it is “legal” to have female alter servers now I don’t understand the problem.

I don’t think anyone sees it a real problem except one person who had objections to it at his parish, due to the fact that the group of women who wanted to be involved with it were
not in accord with the mind of the Church on the topic of women’s ordination. One cannot appreciate that fact enough unless one has had to deal with such persons. Very scary.
And the OP was concerned because he/she noticed that many of the boys no longer
wanted to be involved once the girls were admitted.

 

[kozlosap]

I don’t think anyone sees it a real problem except one person who had objections to it at his parish, due to the fact that the group of women who wanted to be involved with it were
not in accord with the mind of the Church on the topic of women’s ordination. One cannot appreciate that fact enough unless one has had to deal with such persons. Very scary.
And the OP was concerned because he/she noticed that many of the boys no longer
wanted to be involved once the girls were admitted.

I will have to agree with one of the other posters that if the boys didn’t want to be alter servers because girls were involved, then there was something wrong. (with the boys, I mean) Being an alter server is not like joining the Boy Scouts - it’s about serving the Lord! In my city (about 1 million) I have been to many parishes and the only one that I know of that has boys only as servers is the lone TLM church. Yes, I live on the West Coast, but even in the more traditional Spanish speaking churches, girls are servers. Maybe it’s the age of the servers. Here, sixth grade is the youngest allowed and most kids are servers for 3 or 4 years. As for the adult women, we have an older woman who serves at most of the morning daily masses and is instrumental in our RCIA too. She is 70 years old! I certainly don’t think she has any inclination to become a priest. I would also bet that a majority of the women who wanted to serve (and were not allowed to) were married or widows.

 

[choy]

There are ALWAYS enough boys if enough of an effort is made.

sorry, i should say, “there are not enough WILLING boys”

 

[choy]

AyAyAy… It was the change in canon law (coupled with Ministeria Quaedam) that eventually allowed altar girls, not the change in the Mass. And no diocese allows girl acolytes, most only allow seminarians to become acolytes despite the intent of Ministeria Quaedam.

Not in my experience, no parish was so starved for servers (see my response below) that they had to allow altar girls. However in 1994-1995 I do know that most of the altar boys quit as the altar girls came in (and the moms wrenched the annual picnic from the knights, etc.).

from my experience, i have seen parishes with too few or no boy altar servers. in fact, in the Philippines EMHCs are also made to serve at the altar.

What damage? I believe you answered your own question.

Altar servers are not required in the OF. At all. If there are not enough boys or men the priest can say the Mass without servers.

sure, but it would be difficult for the priest on Sundays. on ordinary days priests don’t usually have altar servers, unless of course its quite normal for a lot of people to attend Mass in that parish or chapel. this is of course in my experience

 

[CDNowak]

from my experience, i have seen parishes with too few or no boy altar servers. in fact, in the Philippines EMHCs are also made to serve at the altar.

What is too few servers? Servers were rendered optional by the dialog format of the OF of the Mass. So one per Mass would be sufficient, at the parishes with the most Masses I have seen that would mean 10 servers (if each serve only assisted one Mass), out of 5000 families. If sustaining that percentage is a problem there is something far more serious wrong with the parish than not having altar boys.

The answer to no boy servers however cannot simply be girl servers. It would be preferable to have men serving in such a situation (and if it had to be the same server every Mass, so be it).

The Philippine practice is understandable, the acolyte is first choice for both serving and (if needed beyond the clergy) distributing communion.

sure, but it would be difficult for the priest on Sundays. on ordinary days priests don’t usually have altar servers, unless of course its quite normal for a lot of people to attend Mass in that parish or chapel. this is of course in my experience

 

[Just_Lurking]

No, that rule has been in place since the 1975 GIRM at least (#142. (…) The acolyte may have functions of various kinds and several may occur at the same time. It is therefore desirable that these functions be suitably distributed among several acolytes. But if there is only a single acolyte present, he should perform the more important functions and the rest are distributed among other ministers.

I was referring to the current GIRM rule: “100. In the absence of an instituted acolyte, lay ministers may be deputed to serve at the altar and assist the priest and the deacon; they may carry the cross, the candles, the thurible, the bread, the wine, and the water, and they may also be deputed to distribute Holy Communion as extraordinary ministers.”

I don’t believe the rule you cited can be used as a “right to serve at the altar” for instituted acolytes.

 

[Catholicben]

I would just like to add that in my parish, which I would like to add is very traditional, we have more than enough servers (altar boys) each Sunday. At the “main” mass, which ever servers can make it come, and about 10 minutes before mass, the MCs (me and two friends of mine) shuffles everything around, gives out the jobs (Thurfur, boat, torch bearer, gift receivers, water/wine & lavabo, Mitre/Crosier bearers, zucetto bearer, etc…)., and volia!

Whoever is there is there. It always works out, by the grace of God. I’m not talking about getting 4 or 5 servers on an average Sunday. This Sunday, we had the normal summer average of 12. Advent comes along, and we’ll probably be hitting 15, at least.

And during Holy week, ordinations, and special diocesan masses when the seminarians are in town? We have to limit servers, because we don’t have enough space for them all, and every one of them are dying to serve that mass. That is the success that an altar boy group brings to a parish.

 

[Phemie]

I was referring to the current GIRM rule: “100. In the absence of an instituted acolyte, lay ministers may be deputed to serve at the altar and assist the priest and the deacon; they may carry the cross, the candles, the thurible, the bread, the wine, and the water, and they may also be deputed to distribute Holy Communion as extraordinary ministers.”

I don’t believe the rule you cited can be used as a “right to serve at the altar” for instituted acolytes.

That rule is based on 1973’s Immensae Caritatis which says:

1.Local ordinaries have the faculty to permit a suitable person individually chosen as an extraordinary minister for a specific occasion or for a time or, in the case of necessity, in some permanent way, either to give the Eucharist to himself or to other faithful and to take it to the sick who are confined to their homes. This faculty may be used whenever:
a)there is no priest, deacon or acolyte;

and Canon 230

Can. 230 §1. Lay men who possess the age and qualifications established by decree of the conference of bishops can be admitted on a stable basis through the prescribed liturgical rite to the ministries of lector and acolyte.
Nevertheless, the conferral of these ministries does not grant them the right to obtain support or remuneration from the Church.
§2. Lay persons can fulfill the function of lector in liturgical actions by temporary designation. All lay persons can also perform the functions of commentator or cantor, or other functions, according to the norm of law.
§3. When the need of the Church warrants it and ministers are lacking, lay persons, even if they are not lectors or acolytes, can also supply certain of their duties, namely, to exercise the ministry of the word, to preside offer liturgical prayers, to confer baptism, and to distribute Holy Communion, according to the prescripts of the law.

Both of those give the acolyte the responsibility and only in his absence can a non-instituted person fulfill the role.

 

[CDNowak]

Phemie:
Not to mention that Ministeria Quaedam is the source for these functions as proper to the Acolyte.

 

[Phemie]

I was referring to the current GIRM rule: “100. In the absence of an instituted acolyte, lay ministers may be deputed to serve at the altar and assist the priest and the deacon; they may carry the cross, the candles, the thurible, the bread, the wine, and the water, and they may also be deputed to distribute Holy Communion as extraordinary ministers.”

I don’t believe the rule you cited can be used as a “right to serve at the altar” for instituted acolytes.

But Canon 230 and Immensea Caritatis make it clear that the ministers serve only if instituted ministers are not available. Instituted ministers are the default. I guess the GIRM update felt they had to spell it out.

 

[snowlake]

You can hear what Cardinal Arinze has to say on this matter by looking up “Cardinal
Arinze, altar girls, you tube”. I wanted to insert a link, but don’t know how to do it. I
followed someone else’s directions but it didn’t work. sigh.

 

[choy]

What is too few servers? Servers were rendered optional by the dialog format of the OF of the Mass. So one per Mass would be sufficient, at the parishes with the most Masses I have seen that would mean 10 servers (if each serve only assisted one Mass), out of 5000 families. If sustaining that percentage is a problem there is something far more serious wrong with the parish than not having altar boys.

The answer to no boy servers however cannot simply be girl servers. It would be preferable to have men serving in such a situation (and if it had to be the same server every Mass, so be it).

The Philippine practice is understandable, the acolyte is first choice for both serving and (if needed beyond the clergy) distributing communion.

i couldn’t imagine a priest that doesn’t need an altar servers. especially the older priests, do you want them moving around doing everything? and it would also depend on how large the spaces are

the EMHCs in the Philippines aren’t acolytes, their lay. but they’re all men. because of the large amount of Catholics, there isn’t a shortage of older male volunteers. sadly teens, while Catholic and would probably be regular Mass attendees, tend to shy away from serving. i can cite various cultural reasons for this, but i don’t want to get too much into that on this thread

in my former parish that has female altar servers, there would only be one or two that is actually around the altar throughout the Mass. most would sit on the front row, they would only participate during the procession carrying the candles and the cross, and during communion to hold the paten. in my current parish there is normally one or two, per mass

yes, i agree that it would signal a far serious problem in a parish. even parishes with a large amount of Mass attendees may have this problem. a lot more people today are happy to just attend Mass, and not volunteer their services to the church. sometimes its sad to see that an otherwise good amount of potential volunteers decide to just sit it out

 

[FAB]

My 13 year old dd is an altar server at our parish. I am starting to feel uneasy about it, espescially as I see how boys are less willing to serve when girls are on the altar. I am thinking of not allowing her to serve anymore. Am I being unreasonable do you think?

I’ve read a number of the post both pro and con. I am the director of Liturgy and music at my church as well as an Instituted Acolyte.
In both of those roles, I am very happy to have the girls in our parish serve. The impression that males are not serving is not an issue that you should be concerned, or should be a reason for your daughter to stop serving the Church and the Lord in this role.
There are those that argue since girls serve, somehow that keeps boys from serving and someday preventing them from being priest. This is a red harring. Young men may not be going into the preisthood and not being a server is at the bottom of the list why.
Being a server for a boy or girl is a great gateway for them to serve in future ministeries, as a lector once confirmed as a EMHC once 18 and many other places.
It would be much more detramental to deny her this way of service to the church an so to anwer your question, it would be unreasonable.

Peace,
FAB

 

[CDNowak]

You can hear what Cardinal Arinze has to say on this matter by looking up “Cardinal
Arinze, altar girls, you tube”. I wanted to insert a link, but don’t know how to do it. I
followed someone else’s directions but it didn’t work. sigh.

“CardinalArinze, altar girls, you tube”

Thanks!

 

[jgbuff]

I noticed something like this at Mass 2 weeks ago, and indeed, it did have an effect. I
found it very disrespectful (on the part of the parents, not the kids). Were you or your spouse not aware what your children were wearing on their feet?

Give me a break, you were affected in what way? Maybe you should concentrate at giving yourself fully to the MASS in order to honor God, rather then worry if an Altar Server has a flip flop sticking out from under thier albs. And yes I knew they had them on that day, getting 4 kids ready for mass is sometimes hectic, I noticed too late to feel like correcting this. Sometimes you pick your battles when you have children. We all cant be perfect. I will make sure I confess this at reconcilliation.