Female Altar Servers

[Cristiano]

I did finally check with what is going on in our parish. I asked the seminarian that we support. He stated that we had 4 seminarians until a few weeks ago when one of them was ordained. I also know of at least three young men that are considering to enter the seminary this year.

We have about 50% female servers. A couple of weeks ago one of them completed her 10 year service because she is going to a Catholic college. Our pastor announced that at the end of the Mass, and at the end of his parting message announcing that she would go to a school of Jesuits he said 'Keep them orthodox!"

I still think that gender is not the problem. It is the parents and maybe the priests that want to hide behind it. This year I will propose to introduce some aspects of the “Theology of the body” to the pre-pubescent students (mid-school) in order to avoid these gender issues that we (older people) carry in our cultural baggage. Education is the best way to fight modernism and relativism. If we truly understand what our sexes are about, then we can better serve the Lord with more priests, healthier families and less abortions.

 

[Thursday1]

I have only a little bit to add to this debate. I would prefer all boys/men to serve at the altar; but I have no problem with girls serving as well.
Ideally, it would be boys only, but in many parishes there aren’t enough boys committed enough to do the job. I believe some would like to place the heavier burden on the Priest because of this, but that is wrong. It is akin to thinking that because all the men abandoned Christ on the way of the Cross (except John) that blood and sweat should not have been wiped from His face and that He should not have been shown any comfort.
In many parishes female altar servers are like the women of Jerusalem, they have not abandoned serving Christ.

Yours in Christ,
Thursday

 

[scylla]

You are right Thursday, when men stop being men sometimes it is up to the women to stand up.

Many men in the Catholic Church have turned into pansies, not soldiers for Christ but rather wimpy, womanly shadows of men who would rather let the women serve than get involved. We still have some strong priests and men but you need to look for them.

Our Church is turning into a feelings based comfort group which makes the faith based upon what we want to do, not what we should do. This is why female ordination, altar girls, liturgical experimentation and such all have such strong support as salvation has been put on the back burner and feel good faith is what it is about.

We need strong women and strong men. Not weak women wanting to be men and wimpy men acting like caricatures of women.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[RobinTruett]

The reason for allowing female altar servers was disobedience which influenced people to push for the Pope to approve female altar servers. So the people pushing female altar servers in the first place were doing an evil act by disobeying the Church and pushing for the female priest agenda.
Sexual deviants, Female Priests and non-celibate priests are behind the agenda initially pushing for female altar servers. Now people who have good intentions have sometimes jumped on the bandwagon under the desire to help out and participate.

Yes this sounds harsh, yet our obedience is one of the most crucial points in our relationship with God. Lack of obedience is the cause of the fall of man. The sin of Adam is placing mans desire above obedience.

There is absolutely no good reason for female altar servers to continue to exist except for feelings. We should always be mindful of the feelings of the poor girls who are used in this way.

I have two little girls and I would never use my girls or manipulate them in this way. They are special the way they are and they do not need to be like boys to be special. Some silly lady was encouraging my little girl to be an altar server last week and when I asked why, she couldn’t give a good reason. There is no good reason unless you want to make girls feel bad by thinking they need to emulate boys.

Many “modern” women seem to like to make other women feel bad instead of allowing women to enjoy being women.

In Christ
Scylla

I agree. I teach 4th graders and one of my problems is the girls wanting to be boys. They seam to feel being a girl is less. Then of course the question always arises "why can’t girls be priest?’ So all I can do is plant a few seed of being happy and fine with our femininity.With boys in the class I can only spend so much time on the subject then get back to the Catechism for all.
Personnally I’m not in favor of girl alter servers. Think about it, at that age boys don’t want to do things they see mostly girls doing that might be concieve as a sissy thing to do. When I was young we had what I believe was call “sadality”(not good at spelling) and that was for us girls to have our part in serving.

 

[Tom317]

You are right Thursday, when men stop being men sometimes it is up to the women to stand up.

Stand up and be men?

Many men in the Catholic Church have turned into pansies, not soldiers for Christ but rather wimpy, womanly shadows of men who would rather let the women serve than get involved.

The solution is for the men to volunteer, yet women should NOT “step-up” for them. Let the work go undone and let them men know why.

 

[Tom317]

The is only reason to have altar servers: to encourage vocations to the Priesthood. Women cannot be Priests–period.

Priests can handle all of the tasks at the altar, they do not need servers, they are NOT lazy people, they can handle it themselves. That means if there are no boys to serve, the Priest should do without a server.

 

[freudmacher]

The is only reason to have altar servers: to encourage vocations to the Priesthood. Women cannot be Priests–period.

Priests can handle all of the tasks at the altar, they do not need servers, they are NOT lazy people, they can handle it themselves. That means if there are no boys to serve, the Priest should do without a server.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

We have this woman as a server, but usually with another guy. This woman can not remember to bow and genuflect as needed when walking around up there. It is soo sad. Plus, during the our father, she walks up and grabs the priests hand to say it, and then doesn’t return to her seat, she stands there and puts her hands on the alter. I know guys can forget too, but there are three other guys that alternate and they don’t forget things, and are very reverent at all times, nor hold the priests hands. I have to say, this is only while our priest is away, he should be back and does not let women serve, thank goodness.

 

[Thursday1]

Stand up and be men?

The solution is for the men to volunteer, yet women should NOT “step-up” for them. Let the work go undone and let them men know why.

Your solution would have left Christ alone and uncomforted on the road to Calvary.

freudmacher:

We have this woman as a server, but usually with another guy. This woman can not remember to bow and genuflect as needed when walking around up there. It is soo sad. Plus, during the our father, she walks up and grabs the priests hand to say it, and then doesn’t return to her seat, she stands there and puts her hands on the alter. I know guys can forget too, but there are three other guys that alternate and they don’t forget things, and are very reverent at all times, nor hold the priests hands. I have to say, this is only while our priest is away, he should be back and does not let women serve, thank goodness.

This is unfortunate, but not a good argument against women serving. It is a good argument against her serving, but not against all women serving.

Yours in Christ,
Thursday

 

[Tom317]

Your solution would have left Christ alone and uncomforted on the road to Calvary.

That is silly. We are discussing serving at a Mass, not Jesus’ actions 2,000 years ago.

 

[Thursday1]

That is silly. We are discussing serving at a Mass, not Jesus’ actions 2,000 years ago.

If Women are not worthy of serving at the re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice when the men abandon their roles, then women were not worthy to serve Christ at the first presentation of his Sacrifice, when all the men but John did abandon him.

A Priest is not a sacrament machine that is there to do your bidding, and many of them do need the help. How would you handle being Alter Christus as the moment of Crucifixion? Or having to literally kill your best friend every day at the moment you separate his body and blood?

Yours in Christ,
Thursday

 

[Tom317]

If Women are not worthy of serving at the re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice when the men abandon their roles, then women were not worthy to serve Christ at the first presentation of his Sacrifice, when all the men but John did abandon him.

A Priest is not a sacrament machine that is there to do your bidding, and many of them do need the help. How would you handle being Alter Christus as the moment of Crucifixion? Or having to literally kill your best friend every day at the moment you separate his body and blood?

Yours in Christ,
Thursday

You desire to have female altar servers so that causes you to use faulty logic and to compare apples to oranges–neither method works.

Jesus called men, and only men, to the Priesthood and only men as His apostles (including those chosen after the original twelve). Jesus is the bridegroom to His Church. Women are not men, women cannot be bridegrooms, women cannot be Priests, Deacons, etc. The one and only true purpose of assigning altar servers is to encourage young men to consider a possible call to the Priesthood…women cannot ever receive that call and it is just wrong to make them think they can.

Your points about service is also very faulty because there are thousands of ways to serve Christ, one does not have to be an altar server to be serving Christ.

 

[Thursday1]

You desire to have female altar servers so that causes you to use faulty logic and to compare apples to oranges–neither method works.

Jesus called men, and only men, to the Priesthood and only men as His apostles (including those chosen after the original twelve). Jesus is the bridegroom to His Church. Women are not men, women cannot be bridegrooms, women cannot be Priests, Deacons, etc. The one and only true purpose of assigning altar servers is to encourage young men to consider a possible call to the Priesthood…women cannot ever receive that call and it is just wrong to make them think they can.

Your points about service is also very faulty because there are thousands of ways to serve Christ, one does not have to be an altar server to be serving Christ.

You apparently didn’t bother to read my first post in this thread:
Thursday1 (that's me):

I would prefer all boys/men to serve at the altar; but I have no problem with girls serving as well.
Ideally, it would be boys only, but in many parishes there aren’t enough boys committed enough to do the job.

We agree women can never be priests, and that it is ideal for only men to serve at the altar.
What we disagree on is what the Mass is. The Mass is The Paschal Mystery, Christ’s Death and Resurrection. Christ’s death includes carrying his Cross. When He was carrying His Cross, all the men that had been following Him (except John) abandoned Him, leaving only the women to serve and comfort Him. That is the Mass. Again, in many parishes, then men have abandoned their duty to serve Christ, and it is up to the new “women of Jerusalem” to serve Him. The Priest is Alter Christus, the female serves are the new women. Is it really that hard to see?
Also, we disagree on the primary purpose of Altar Servers. You say it is only to raise up vocations among young men, I say it is to Serve and aid the Alter Christus during the Pascal Mystery. I do not argue that the raising of vocations is a good and noble secondary purpose, but to place it as the sole purpose seems an odd rearrangement of priorities.

And, lastly, please actually address my arguments before declaring them “apples and oranges” without proof.

Yours in Christ,
Thursday

 

[Tom317]

You apparently didn’t bother to read my first post in this thread:

We agree women can never be priests, and that it is ideal for only men to serve at the altar.
What we disagree on is what the Mass is. The Mass is The Paschal Mystery, Christ’s Death and Resurrection. Christ’s death includes carrying his Cross. When He was carrying His Cross, all the men that had been following Him (except John) abandoned Him, leaving only the women to serve and comfort Him. That is the Mass. Again, in many parishes, then men have abandoned their duty to serve Christ, and it is up to the new “women of Jerusalem” to serve Him. The Priest is Alter Christus, the female serves are the new women. Is it really that hard to see?
Also, we disagree on the primary purpose of Altar Servers. You say it is only to raise up vocations among young men, I say it is to Serve and aid the Alter Christus during the Pascal Mystery. I do not argue that the raising of vocations is a good and noble secondary purpose, but to place it as the sole purpose seems an odd rearrangement of priorities.

And, lastly, please actually address my arguments before declaring them “apples and oranges” without proof.

Yours in Christ,
Thursday

First, you are correct, I did not see your other post and I stand corrected about my comments regarding female altar servers, thanks for calling me on that point.

Second, and with all due respect, I feel you have a mis-understanding of the Mass. While we certainly agree that the Mass respresents the Pascal Mystery, it does not represent it in its entirety. By this I am saying we are not making Christ carry His cross again, nor is Christ be re-crucified at every Mass; rather, during Mass we enter into the once for all sacrifice that was made eternally present by Jesus’ complete and saving work on the cross, we do this at the pinacle or summit of the Mass when we do as Christ commanded by eating His Body and drinking His Blood.

I will not argue that altar servers do not perform more then one purpose, and that their secondary purpose is to aide the Priest in the various parts of the celebration of Holy Mass. I will simply say that the true and primary reason for altar servers is to encourage vocations.

 

[BigFeet]

the true and primary reason for altar servers is to encourage vocations.

Exactly!!!
Fostering vocations to the priesthood is THE reason for having altar boys, period. The priest absolutely does not need anybody to assist him during Mass. He is perfectly capable of pouring wine and water into the chalice, and to wash his hands. He’s not helpless, and I’m sure that when he’s at home, he doesn’t have anybody there to pour his milk on his cereal in the morning, or to wash his hands before he eats his meals. For Thursday1 to say that the priest needs assistance with these things is ridiculous.

I happen to know several priests that will not use altar girls, and if a boy is not available to serve, the priests will not use any server at all. There is no need for them, except to foster vocations.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Quibble on semantics if you wish; The point is what the Church says is the final word.

If this were true in all cases then no Pope could change what a previous Pope said.

 

[Tish]

The last post stated that altar girls were first allowed in 1994. Can someone lead me to the document which allows this so I can read it for myself.
Thank you.

 

[THurifer2]

The last post stated that altar girls were first allowed in 1994. Can someone lead me to the document which allows this so I can read it for myself.
Thank you.

It will be difficult to find…It was a circular letter by the congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments on March 15, 1994…it was a clarification of canon 230 §2. Clearly some were doing this in dissent prior to vatican approval. Some parishes have NO male altar servers now…which certainly doesn’t encourage a vocation to the priesthood. A priest has the right no refuse to allow female altar servers. There is one diocese in the U.S.A. That abosolutely forbids Female altar servers and that is Lincoln, NE…which by mention has 19 first year seminarians and compared to most other dioceses has priests coming out thier ears.

 

[Tish]

Please pray for our parish as it mergers with another nearby parish. We are very different in worship and music ministry. Our parish has always only had boy servers and we are told that this will change since the other parish has girls (always seems to be the more conservative traditions that must go.) I’d like to know more about the church’s teaching on this before I write our bishop with my concerns. It is such a beautiful way to expose our boys to the priesthood and adding girls will turn many young boys away.

 

[ljprevo]

It will be difficult to find…It was a circular letter by the congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments on March 15, 1994…it was a clarification of canon 230 §2. Clearly some were doing this in dissent prior to vatican approval. Some parishes have NO male altar servers now…which certainly doesn’t encourage a vocation to the priesthood. A priest has the right no refuse to allow female altar servers. There is one diocese in the U.S.A. That abosolutely forbids Female altar servers and that is Lincoln, NE…which by mention has 19 first year seminarians and compared to most other dioceses has priests coming out thier ears.

Our church does not allow altar girls and we have the same thing. We have altar boys coming out of our ears and have several that are in the seminary.

 

[jpoii]

I absolutely do not think it should be reserved for only boys, but the realization that I came to was that my daughter is feeling a genuine pull…no doing on my or my husband’s part…towards religious life, from (I think) being an altar server. If there were more boys…perhaps, it would at least create more desire.

You say you and your husband have no doing in her desire to be a religious sister, but I am inclined to disagree with you. I think she got the idea from you and your parents even though you may not have said anything. Most people I know in formation for the religious life or priesthood would say it was their parents living their vacation that lead them to their vocation. Of the priest, I know they say living a celibate life is easier when they are around married couples fully living their vocation of marriage. So whose example is most likely to follow some stranger or someone she loves and respects? I think too many people sell themselves short. When we live our vocation to the fullest within the faith it affects others more than we may think. Mother Teresa once said let them know I am Catholic not by what I say but what I do who also said it was her parents actions that influenced her before her father passed away.