Female Altar Servers

[THurifer2]

I hate to reinvigorate the thread…but I think our parish priest is quietly against it. We seem to be having less and less Female altar servers…I think if he is pressed a bit about the issue he will end the practice. The bulk of the active Catholic families in our parish come from the more orthodox ranks of Catholics…

Since I am the trainer for Altar servers I think I wll approach him about starting a altar server society for boys who may be interested in the priesthood. Perhaps my wife could start a society for the girls of our parish who may be interested in the religious life.

I am almost certain he would discontinue Girl Altar boys if approached by a few of us…I know at least 10 couples in our parish who would be willing to approach him about this.

I think we will do it tommorrow.

 

[Tish]

Here is a link to an homily given by a priest right after the Holy Father allowed altar girls in 1994. It is beautiful and heartfelt and all who think there should be girl altar servers should read it. It was written prior to the clarification came out that each pastor could decided whether or not to have only boys serve in his parish. We need more priest like this one! I am sharing this with our pastor.

ewtn.com/library/LITURGY/ALTBYHOM.TXT

 

[zuzu]

Every time there are these type of discussions, there are some on here that have a tendancy to use their ‘orthodoxy’ as a stick to beat those they see as having ‘liberal’ ideas.
Why oh why does it always have to degenerate like this?

I read the Homily a priest delivered speaking against Female Servers. All it said to me, was that this priest had an opinion - nothing more.
There are plenty of other priests, bishops and lay people whose opinion will be, and and in fact are different, on this issue. It doesn’t make them all wrong, or disobedient.

So called orthodox viewpoints seem to suggest that by making his announcement to ‘permit’ female servers, the Holy Father was somehow pressured into it by a feminist, liberal agenda.
I have never heard such rubbish.
If it really was so very wrong, do you think for one moment that John Paul II would have even considered it?

Orthodox ‘traditionalists’ would like nothing more than to return to the days before Vatican II. They see most change as some form of disobedience, even if that change has the approval of the bishop.
If we didn’t change, all Masses would probably be in Aramaic.
So some change is most definately good.

The actions of poorly trained individuals cannot be used as reasons for not having female servers. For every poor female server, there are probably 3 or 4 brilliant ones. By the same argument, for every 3 or 4 great altar boys, there are probably 1 or 2 not so good ones.

Altar servers may have began as ‘apprentice priests’ , but that was in the dark ages. Most vocations nowadays are fostered at home, within the family. Serving at the altar just re-enforces it

Don’t get me wrong here. I like to attend a Tridentine Rite Mass, but i much prefer the New Rite. Does that make me disobedient? I love sacred music, but i also don’t mind some of the more ‘contemporary’ music too. Does that make me a liberal?
I love to see alter boys, but i am a 54 year old (young at heart)female server and parish MC. I hate to think what that makes me in some eyes.

I was invited to consider being a server by my parish priest 5 years ago, and yes - it is a privilege. I don’t have an agenda, and i don’t want to be a priest.
Most female servers would say the same.

If vocations are falling - don’t blame female servers.

I worship God
I honour Mary and the Saints
I love my Catholic Faith

Zuzu

 

[Tish]

Dear Zuzu,
At 54 one would not think that you would be as impressionable as one at 10 so it doesn’t surprise me that you do not imagine yourself as a priest when you serve. Also, I wonder why your church needs a 54 yr. old altar server. Where are the youth? As far as dissobedience, many churches were having girl servers long before it was approved by our beloved Pope JPII and that is why it causes such an upset. He approved it after the fact, probably as a way of dealing with dissidence with out having to oust a number of wayward priests. I never said I wanted to go back to pre-Vatican II, just back to 1993! This issue has nothing to do with Vatican II (just as the issue of Communion in the hand is post Vatican II - but that is for another forum.) I wasn’t even around when Vatican II changes were made. All I have ever known is the New Order Mass. The point is that if one is going to have servers at all the only purpose would be to foster vocations. The diocese where only boys are allowed to serve is the only diocese in this country with out a priest shortage. That doesn’t say much for the success of fostering vocations at home. It is not a liberal or conservative issue. It is an issue of purpose. A priest can celebrate Mass with out any altar boys. The only reason to have them is to foster vocations to the priest hood and since girls never will be priests it is wrong to have them serve in a capacity that may cause them to imagine themselves as priests which could breed dissidence. There are many other reasons for having only boys serve and they deal more with male weakness then female equality. Tish

 

[zuzu]

Hi Tish,
You have a point when you ask ‘where are the youth?’, and we are currently working with Youth Group Organisations within the Diocese to help encourage more 16 to 30 year olds to attend Mass.

As for our church needing a 54 year old server, the priests encourage all ages to ‘step up to the plate’. We currently have a great mix of boys and girls in the junior ranks, and a number of senior gentlemen (in their 70s and 80s) who serve during the week - when the kids are at school. Sadly, the days when servers could take time out of lessons to serve at Mass are long gone, and would not be encouraged, even by our Catholic schools (more’s the pity). I get the feeling that if schools were a little more relaxed in regard to this, maybe more juniors would ‘volunteer’ for Altar Service.
Maybe it’s just a British thing??!!

I have to agree with you too, on the point you made about the ‘disobedience’ of some priests prior to the Holy Fathers ‘approval’. I had no idea the problem was so rife over there.
However I don’t think JPII was the sort of person not to have the courage of his convictions, though, and to approve something ‘after the fact’ simply to avoid having to ‘oust’ dissident priests, seems at odds with the Great Man.
If female altar servers were such a wrong thing back then, he surely would have made that point quite clear, and dealt with the ‘dissident’ clergy through normal chanels.
We now find ourselves in the situation where one section of laity seems to be ‘up in arms’ regarding something that the other section of the laity see as perfectly acceptable.
Can’t we just all get on without having to defend our various positions to one another?
We all follow Christ, after all.

Please pray for the success of our Youth Groups
cheers
and may God bless you

 

[THurifer2]

So called orthodox viewpoints seem to suggest that by making his announcement to ‘permit’ female servers, the Holy Father was somehow pressured into it by a feminist, liberal agenda.
I have never heard such rubbish

I remember reading the it was a reluctant permission…parishes in the extemely liberal and priestless archdiocese that I lived in were doing it out of disobedience years before 1994…their heterodoxy and rampant disobedience on most issues are now coming to fruitation. 99% of the greying progressives who ruined that Dioceses are entering into their final years of life and have been pretty successful at emptying out the churches. It is a near lifeless situation now.

Orthodox ‘traditionalists’ would like nothing more than to return to the days before Vatican II. They see most change as some form of disobedience, even if that change has the approval of the bishop.
If we didn’t change, all Masses would probably be in Aramaic.
So some change is most definately good.

Frankly I wouldn’t want to go back to the days before Vatican II…I would like to have the real Vatican II intentions implemented though. Oh and Luckily we can go to the Trindentine Mass now…Some likely attend to distance themselves from Heterodoxical nuts that seem to be everywhere in the Catholic church.

Altar servers may have began as ‘apprentice priests’ , but that was in the dark ages.

The Dark Ages? You mean when there were priests everywhere? Gee seems like things are pretty dark now.

Most vocations nowadays are fostered at home, within the family.

Gee and it seems to be working soooooo well!

I am a 54 year old (young at heart)female server

WHo happens to be taking the spot of a young man who potentially wanted to serve but cannot because you are taking his spot. Just think that one boy could have been up there on the Altar and it might have been a defining moment for him.

 

[zuzu]

Dear Thurifer,
I’m not taking anyones ‘spot’. Since when has serving at the altar been reserved by ‘spots’?

If a young man wishes to serve at the Altar, he will serve, and the presence of females amongst the ranks of servers shouldn’t bar him from doing so.

It would be churlish indeed, if such young men held back for such a petty reason.

To be honest with you, i wish more young men would serve, but i doubt my presence has anything to do with their absence.

There has been much in Vatican II that has been misinterpreted, over the years (deliberately or otherwise), and the real abuses have been the cause of much genuine concern. On this point, i agree with you. But entering into sarcasm and name-calling is unhelpful.

Whatever your viewpoint, please have the good grace to enter into the spirit of a good discussion
Your attitude is (on the surface) very uncharitable.
Zuzu

 

[THurifer2]

Dear Thurifer,
.

To be honest with you, i wish more young men would serve, but i doubt my presence has anything to do with their absence.

.
Zuzu

Your doubts are unfounded because you haven’t a clue as to how a young man thinks, reasons and operates…unless you have been a young man you wouln’t know.

Masculinity is a major part of an adolescent boy.

It is unchangeable human nature. I KNOW PERSONALLY potential vocations that walked away when the girls showed up

 

[BigFeet]

Our parish has so many girls serving, that when the boys finally get their turn on the schedule to serve, they aren’t really sure what to do (serving once in 6 months is not often enough to get the hang of it). As a result, after a couple of times of not being sure what to do, most of them don’t want to serve anymore.

It’s been said before on this forum, but it bears repeating…Every time a girl serves, that’s one less opportunity for a boy to serve, and one less opportunity for the boy to hear God’s call for a priestly vocation. It’s a fact that the vast majority of priests heard their first call to the priesthood while serving at Mass.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Dear Zuzu,
At 54 one would not think that you would be as impressionable as one at 10 so it doesn’t surprise me that you do not imagine yourself as a priest when you serve. Also, I wonder why your church needs a 54 yr. old altar server. Where are the youth? As far as dissobedience, many churches were having girl servers long before it was approved by our beloved Pope JPII and that is why it causes such an upset. He approved it after the fact, probably as a way of dealing with dissidence with out having to oust a number of wayward priests. I never said I wanted to go back to pre-Vatican II, just back to 1993! This issue has nothing to do with Vatican II (just as the issue of Communion in the hand is post Vatican II - but that is for another forum.) I wasn’t even around when Vatican II changes were made. All I have ever known is the New Order Mass. The point is that if one is going to have servers at all the only purpose would be to foster vocations. The diocese where only boys are allowed to serve is the only diocese in this country with out a priest shortage. That doesn’t say much for the success of fostering vocations at home. It is not a liberal or conservative issue. It is an issue of purpose. A priest can celebrate Mass with out any altar boys. The only reason to have them is to foster vocations to the priest hood and since girls never will be priests it is wrong to have them serve in a capacity that may cause them to imagine themselves as priests which could breed dissidence. There are many other reasons for having only boys serve and they deal more with male weakness then female equality. Tish

 

[peary]

…and I have read many posts on here about how being an altar server used to be something ‘reserved’ for boys…and was considered somewhat of a position of discernment of the priesthood. Often times, it led to more boys choosing religious life.

Okay, I never believed this. But, my daughter is an altar server…(a great one, I might add) and she told me the other night that she is thinking of becoming a nun. She said it ‘would be a pretty cool thing to be, mommy.’ Awww!! Now, she also has said she wants to be a mother someday…so who knows? She said it again today, though, when she saw something come in the mail from a local convent.

Ok…so I stand corrected. Maybe her being an altar server, formed a greater ‘yearning’ (for lack of a better word) towards religious life. Forgive me for not ‘believing’ you.

PS: I don’t think that of course will automatically lead someone to religious life…but I do think in my daughter’s case, it has given her a profound desire to examine it as an option, other than a secular career. (had she not been an altar server)

Just sharing with you guys…I knew you would appreciate it…and also, to say that I was ignorant to that, I guess.

**I wish there were MORE sisters as a role model for our young girls and women. It seems that the more traditional orders have been the most successful in attracting candidates. The more ‘nontraditional’ orders have the least. Why? It’s my personal opinion that the nontraditional orders offer nothing to a candidate. If you can have everything that you already have in a regular secular life (except marriage), why bother? You don’t have to give up a thing. It seems that young candidates WANT to give up the outside world for Christ…and gladly. I have never met ‘happy’ candidates in nontraditional orders, but I have in traditional orders. **

 

[zuzu]

It is unchangeable human nature. I KNOW PERSONALLY potential vocations that walked away when the girls showed up

Then it would suggest that these particular ‘vocations’ are not worthy, if they are put off by the presence of a few females. If their vocation was truely strong enough, it wouldn’t matter a jot.
You can’t blame female altar servers for a lack of discernment among those boys who think they may have a vocation.

I may not have have the insight to every young mans mind, but as the mother of two grown sons, i think i have a pretty good idea of how a young mans mind operates. Your argument has no
substance.

“Masculinity is a major part of an adolescent boy”
What sort of masculinity crumbles just because there are girls on the altar? It would appear they need better training, not just on how to serve, but on how to interact with others instead of kicking their toys out of the pram.

Maybe it’s a cultural thing. In Britain we never have such problems. Yes, there may be some parishes with more girl servers, but on the whole it all tends to balance out, and as far as I know, no boy has ever turned his back on a ‘vocation’ because girls serve at the altar.
We may have fewer ‘traditional’ parishes than you in the US, but why should it matter.
We are all giving Glory to God.

It is only an opinion, but i think you are worrying far too much about the impact of female servers. Rather than a continuous onslaught of negative comment, try to focus on what is good in the church.

You may think we do a dis-service by our very existance, but whatever your feelings, female altar servers are here until the Magisterium decides otherwise.
You do yourself a dis-service by sniping at us.

As Catholics, we say the Church is One, but reading some of the comments on this forum a person would be confused to see so much disunity. That fellow Catholics should react in this way, astounds me.

Nevertheless i wish you well
cheers
Zuzu

 

[peary]

Hi Tish,
You have a point when you ask ‘where are the youth?’, and we are currently working with Youth Group Organisations within the Diocese to help encourage more 16 to 30 year olds to attend Mass.

As for our church needing a 54 year old server, the priests encourage all ages to ‘step up to the plate’. We currently have a great mix of boys and girls in the junior ranks, and a number of senior gentlemen (in their 70s and 80s) who serve during the week - when the kids are at school. Sadly, the days when servers could take time out of lessons to serve at Mass are long gone, and would not be encouraged, even by our Catholic schools (more’s the pity). I get the feeling that if schools were a little more relaxed in regard to this, maybe more juniors would ‘volunteer’ for Altar Service.
Maybe it’s just a British thing??!!

I have to agree with you too, on the point you made about the ‘disobedience’ of some priests prior to the Holy Fathers ‘approval’. I had no idea the problem was so rife over there.
However I don’t think JPII was the sort of person not to have the courage of his convictions, though, and to approve something ‘after the fact’ simply to avoid having to ‘oust’ dissident priests, seems at odds with the Great Man.
If female altar servers were such a wrong thing back then, he surely would have made that point quite clear, and dealt with the ‘dissident’ clergy through normal chanels.
We now find ourselves in the situation where one section of laity seems to be ‘up in arms’ regarding something that the other section of the laity see as perfectly acceptable.
Can’t we just all get on without having to defend our various positions to one another?
We all follow Christ, after all.

Please pray for the success of our Youth Groups
cheers
and may God bless you

As far as I am concerned, at age 54 an “altar server’s” time is passed. The only reason one that age is serving is to be seen. It is children and young adults who should fulfill that obligation.

 

[THurifer2]

Then it would suggest that these particular ‘vocations’ are not worthy, if they are put off by the presence of a few females. If their vocation was truely strong enough, it wouldn’t matter a jot.
You can’t blame female altar servers for a lack of discernment among those boys who think they may have a vocation.

Zuzu

I have heard this very response by a feminist.

I suggest you read Donna Steichens “Ungodly Rage”

and Alice Von Hildebrands essays of the state of the church. She strongly disdains Female Altar servers. Certainly You know who Alice Von Hildebrand is right?

 

[THurifer2]

As far as I am concerned, at age 54 an “altar server’s” time is passed. The only reason one that age is serving is to be seen. It is children and young adults who should fulfill that obligation.

I am 40 and I still “altar boy” but I am an acolyte.

 

[THurifer2]

As Catholics, we say the Church is One, but reading some of the comments on this forum a person would be confused to see so much disunity. That fellow Catholics should react in this way, astounds me.

Nevertheless i wish you well
cheers
Zuzu

I think what the modernists find unnerving…is the sheery number of Traditionalists they coming across. I overheard an extremely liberal Clergy expressing his disdain for coming across so many of us. I quote him saying. " its so unhealthy they (the traditionalists) are going to unravel everything we have done!"

I say YAY!

 

[peary]

I think what the modernists find unnerving…is the sheery number of Traditionalists they coming across. I overheard an extremely liberal Clergy expressing his disdain for coming across so many of us. I quote him saying. " its so unhealthy they (the traditionalists) are going to unravel everything we have done!"

I say YAY!

The post-Vatican II nonsense is coming to an end, thank God. I can’t wait until that group of ‘reformers’ retires so that the Church can get on to the business of being the Church.

 

[BigFeet]

The post-Vatican II nonsense is coming to an end, thank God. I can’t wait until that group of ‘reformers’ retires so that the Church can get on to the business of being the Church.

AMEN!

 

[adrift]

As far as I am concerned, at age 54 an “altar server’s” time is passed. The only reason one that age is serving is to be seen. It is children and young adults who should fulfill that obligation.

There are other reasons. At our parish, the young ones did not want to get up for a 7 a.m. mass. Some of the priest were not doing the washing of the hands, so my husband offered to serve. He doesn’t do it to be seen. He does it out of love of the mass.
It is strange that at one time altar servers belonged to the adults. I am glad of the trend to have adults fulfill this duty.

 

[peary]

There are other reasons. At our parish, the young ones did not want to get up for a 7 a.m. mass. Some of the priest were not doing the washing of the hands, so my husband offered to serve. He doesn’t do it to be seen. He does it out of love of the mass.
It is strange that at one time altar servers belonged to the adults. I am glad of the trend to have adults fulfill this duty.

*At our parish, the young ones did not want to get up for a 7 a.m. mass. *

Poor poor babies! They lead such difficult lives. Imagine requiring a child to get up at 7 am in the morning to serve at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Unthinkable!

Some of the priest were not doing the washing of the hands.

Lazy. I’ve been to plenty of Masses where priests washed their own hands because they had no altar servers.

It is strange that at one time altar servers belonged to the adults. I am glad of the trend to have adults fulfill this duty.

**The Fourth Lateran Council (year 1215) said that children may receive Communion when they reach a particular mental development whereby they understand what the Eucharist is, and that they can receive it in due reverence and holiness. Theologians felt this would be what we call the “age of reason” (around 7 or 8 years old). It was also about this time that children reaching such an age were beginning to be allowed to do the work of the acolyte who had been of adult age (18 years or older). So, the allowance and encouragement of children serving at Mass has been around for about 800 years. **