Female Altar Servers

[adrift]

*At our parish, the young ones did not want to get up for a 7 a.m. mass. *

Poor poor babies! They lead such difficult lives. Imagine requiring a child to get up at 7 am in the morning to serve at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Unthinkable!

Some of the priest were not doing the washing of the hands.

Lazy. I’ve been to plenty of Masses where priests washed their own hands because they had no altar servers.

It is strange that at one time altar servers belonged to the adults. I am glad of the trend to have adults fulfill this duty.

**The Fourth Lateran Council (year 1215) said that children may receive Communion when they reach a particular mental development whereby they understand what the Eucharist is, and that they can receive it in due reverence and holiness. Theologians felt this would be what we call the “age of reason” (around 7 or 8 years old). It was also about this time that children reaching such an age were beginning to be allowed to do the work of the acolyte who had been of adult age (18 years or older). So, the allowance and encouragement of children serving at Mass has been around for about 800 years. **

why so angry?

The history is a little more complicated than that. At first babies were given communion. Eventually this practice disappeared. The age of reason had a wide opinion as to when it was. Gradually over time it was settled about 12 years of old. Than Pope Pius X 1903-14 issued the Decree Quam Singulari, in which he established that children could receive First Holy Communion at the age of seven. That is less than a hundred years ago.
In the 50’s, at least in the parishes I attended, the age to serve on the altar was at least 12 that is because of all the Latin responses needed to serve. So it wasn’t 800 years but even if it were, So what? Girls were never allowed to serve either. What happened in the past was a discipline that can and sometimes should be eliminated. The acolyte was one of the minor orders of priesthood. Not something that a seven year old would do.

 

[Haribo]

As a teenage male orthodox Catholic (we’re rapidly becoming an endangered species), I believe I can speak authoritatively on this issue. So here’s my 2c:

IMO, those who argue that females serving at the alter shouldn’t prevent boys from serving appear to have little understanding of the mindset of our age group. To expect boys to serve with girls, or adult women(even worse), is absurd and unreasonable. I am no misogynist, but, for me, the indignity of serving with women would be intolerable.

Having read the arguments on this thread of some of our more liberally inclined posters(and if you are pro-FAS I include you in this category, no matter how much you hate condoms or abortion), it really no longer surprises me that going to mass is seen as effeminate by the vast majority of young boys (and this is a truly tragic development). In my country, alter serving is generally perceived as ‘women’s work’.

I assist at the TLM (no alter girls permitted). The average age of the congregation is about 60 (overwhelming majority are women) and a ca. seventy year old man serves Father. I stick out like a sore thumb in the church. However, I have resisted all attempts to serve, primarily because I am much too nervous, and secondly because I am hesistant to do anything that is aimed at giving me a vocation (as I do not want one, nor would I even become a priest even if I had one). Having that said, I would really like to see young boys serve Mass(boys who are open to the priesthood), though I shan’t be doing it myself and I’ll not take the place of a potential priest.

The adult women here arguing that their serving does not hinder boys from doing so really need to embrace the understanding they are only too eager to demand from others. Such women have no understanding of males of my age group. For an alter boy to serve w/out girls is bad enough. Having to serve in front of an entire congregation (the average age usually far removed from your own), wear a cassock and to receive embarressing and patrionizing praises from your mother, would hardly constitute an effort for your average teenage girl, yet for most boys it would be absolute terror. The presence of females alongside them is an unneccessary hinderance. It should be totally done away with, and females should be banned from any serving at mass. That the pro-FAS women here fail to understand this shows how alienated they are from young men, and any of their attempts to comprehend their mindset will prove utterly futile, IMO.

 

[adrift]

Welcome Haribo,

What you say is very true. My husband said that when girls were allowed the boys would disappear.

I have just spoken to two of my boys/men. They had no objection to serving with girls and had no problem in serving in general. All of my boys, four, served until they were out of high school and went to college. I wondered if they hated to serve. They told me no. Which I know is true because they would eagerly volunteer if the assigned servers failed to show. I would prefer to go back to the term altar boy.

 

[feargalmac]

I served as an alter boy when I was eleven or twelve and did it for a few years. My experience lead me to see if I had a vocation to the priesthood ( I was a novice in my twentys ). At twelve I would have regarded girls as strange aliens to be avoided, thank God I grew up.

My twelve year old son is now serving and does not like serving with the girls. I asked him why and his reply was that they take over and boss the boys. I hope that my sons in time might consider the priesthood, but their experience has not been as positive as mine was.

It’s not just alter servers, my home parish used to have alter boys, and the men looked after the collection. Now the only man doing anything is the priest.

 

[jediliz]

My diocese (Lincoln Nebraska) is the only Diocese that forbids altar girls. I for one am glad of this. My sister & family attend Mass in Omaha Archdiocese. Their parish uses altar girls, usually only one (I’ve been there for Mass, so I know). I am astonished that they are not utilized during Communion at all. During the Consecration, the altar servers kneel, but no bells are rung during those key parts. And the worse part is, the servers do not assist at communion time with the panlet (or however its spelled). I told my brother in law I could see my bishop making an exception for extreme circumstances such as small parishes that don’t have any boys “of age”.

Is there a thread where I can complain about the overuse of EMHCs at Mass at this parish they attend (according to my brother in law they have like 12,000 families or maybe its just 12000 people…).

 

[peary]

why so angry?

The history is a little more complicated than that. At first babies were given communion. Eventually this practice disappeared. The age of reason had a wide opinion as to when it was. Gradually over time it was settled about 12 years of old. Than Pope Pius X 1903-14 issued the Decree Quam Singulari, in which he established that children could receive First Holy Communion at the age of seven. That is less than a hundred years ago.
In the 50’s, at least in the parishes I attended, the age to serve on the altar was at least 12 that is because of all the Latin responses needed to serve. So it wasn’t 800 years but even if it were, So what? Girls were never allowed to serve either. What happened in the past was a discipline that can and sometimes should be eliminated. The acolyte was one of the minor orders of priesthood. Not something that a seven year old would do.

**Angry? Hardly! By the way, babies are STILL given the Eucharist in the Eastern Church - included with Baptism, followed by Confirmation. So, it hasn’t ‘disappeared’. And I stand by the decisions of the Fourth Lateran Council in the year 1215 with regard to reception of the Eucharist by children. The Council felt that it was the parents who should decide when their children should receive. What happened between that time and the pronouncements of Pius X have no bearinig on what that Council decided. Pius X was re-iterating a teaching of the Church which had probably all but disappeared 800 years previously. He proclaimed nothing new. Also, again, I stand by the historical record that children as young as 9 years of age were serving at Mass during that time - not ALL the time, but the practice was still widespread.

As for in the 50s, I grew up in that era too and remember that boys beginning in 5th grade were allowed to serve at Mass and recited the Latin responses BECAUSE I WAS ONE OF THEM. Ten-year olds were and are not stupid, and were instructed by the priests and nuns as to the responses in Latin, as was I.

Personally, I don’t care who serves at Mass with regard to boys OR girls, but the girls have tended to dominate, and by allowing this does a great diservice to our boys who again are “pushed out” by feminist thinking. Strong priests are needed to encourage young boys and adolescence to serve…something unfortunately that is lacking in many of today’s parishes.**

 

[adrift]

Angry? Hardly! By the way, babies are STILL given the Eucharist in the Eastern Church - included with Baptism, followed by Confirmation.

If you aren’t angry why the bolded type? To bold something is to shout.

So, it hasn’t ‘disappeared’

.
I was obviously speaking of the Latin rite, from which it has disappeared.

And I stand by the decisions of the Fourth Lateran Council in the year 1215 with regard to reception of the Eucharist by children. The Council felt that it was the parents who should decide when their children should receive. What happened between that time and the pronouncements of Pius X have no bearinig on what that Council decided.

The Council only declared that Communion should be received by those who had reached the age of reason. No particular age was decided. That is why there was a wide thought of when that occurred.

Pius X was re-iterating a teaching of the Church which had probably all but disappeared 800 years previously. He proclaimed nothing new. Also, again, I stand by the historical record that children as young as 9 years of age were serving at Mass during that time - not ALL the time, but the practice was still widespread.

Do you have documentation on this historical record?

As for in the 50s, I grew up in that era too and remember that boys beginning in 5th grade were allowed to serve at Mass and recited the Latin responses BECAUSE I WAS ONE OF THEM. Ten-year olds were and are not stupid, and were instructed by the priests and nuns as to the responses in Latin, as was I.

I did say that this was the case in the parishes that I attended. Of course, then like now things vary greatly between parishes and dioceses.
You did not address

The acolyte was one of the minor orders of priesthood. Not something that a seven year old would do.

My point being that adults were actually the norm at one time for serving the priest at mass. That it is returning to that norm is good. There is no such thing as

time is passed.

for any service to the Church.

 

[peary]

If you aren’t angry why the bolded type? To bold something is to shout.

**Because my eyesight is bad and I can’t see so well. All of my posts are done in bold so I can see them on the screen **
.
I was obviously speaking of the Latin rite, from which it has disappeared.

Makes no difference. Eastern-rite Catholic churches do all three. That is their tradition.

The Council only declared that Communion should be received by those who had reached the age of reason. No particular age was decided. That is why there was a wide thought of when that occurred.

The age of reason was when a child could show that he or she understood what the Eucharist was all about and that a child could worship the Lord with devotion. It’s right there in the Lateran documents. And that was considered between the ages of 7 and 9, maybe even earlier.

Do you have documentation on this historical record?

Check out Catholic Encyclopedia, for starters.

I did say that this was the case in the parishes that I attended. Of course, then like now things vary greatly between parishes and dioceses.
You did not address
My point being that adults were actually the norm at one time for serving the priest at mass. That it is returning to that norm is good. There is no such thing as for any service to the Church.

I do not understand your point. And at this ‘point’ I don’t see the problem of continuing on here.

 

[adrift]

I do not understand your point. And at this ‘point’ I don’t see the problem of continuing on here.

As far as I am concerned, at age 54 an “altar server’s” time is passed. The only reason one that age is serving is to be seen. It is children and young adults who should fulfill that obligation

My point being that adults were actually the norm at one time for serving the priest at mass. That it is returning to that norm is good. It is actually an older custom than having children. There is no age that is too old to serve at the altar.
Before I posted I checked the Catholic Encyclopedia, but I found no mention of age of altar boys.
I can understand the sight thing but using it does make other think you are shouting at them. Thanks for the explanation

 

[Cursillista1]

**JUST THE FACTS, PLEASE, ON ALTAR GIRLS **
By HELEN HULL HITCHCOCK

This Rock

Volume 4, Number 5

May 1993

Up Front
By Karl Keating

Letters

Dragnet

ANTI-CATHOLICISM GRADUATES TO VIDEO
By KARL KEATING

JUST THE FACTS, PLEASE, ON ALTAR GIRLS
By HELEN HULL HITCHCOCK

Fathers Know Best
The Politically Correct Bible

Old Testament Guide
Ezekiel
By Antonio Fuentes

Quick Questions

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MUCH confusion surrounds the liturgical ministry of women–and much misinformation also. The misinformation breeds further confusion, hurt feelings, and divisions within parishes. Many Catholics worry that a novel liturgical practice is being introduced in their parishes without approval of the Universal Church. Others don’t see the point of all the fuss.

Following are real-life questions received by Women for Faith & Family. The answers may clarify the issues, promote understanding of some reasons for the prohibition of girls and women from serving in the role of acolyte, and explain why we should be concerned about observing the Church’s laws and discipline.

“In my parish we have been told that altar girls are now officially permitted. Is this true?”

No. The directive covering the liturgical ministry of women is given in the official liturgical instruction Inaestimabile Donum (no. 18), which says, “There are various roles that women can perform in the liturgical assembly: These include reading the word of God and proclaiming the intentions of the prayer of the faithful. Women are not, however, permitted to act as altar servers.”

These instructions are binding, and in full force. Furthermore, the 1983 Code of Canon Law states:

“Since he must protect the unity of the Universal Church, the bishop is bound to promote the common discipline of the whole Church and therefore to urge the observance of all ecclesiastical laws” (can. 292:1).

“He is to be watchful lest abuses creep into ecclesiastical discipline, especially concerning the ministry of the word, the celebration of the sacraments and sacramentals, the worship of God and devotion to the saints, and also the administration of property” (canon 292:2).

These statements provide a basis for protecting the liturgy from such innovations as females performing the role of acolyte. Not even a bishop has the authority to make any changes which conflict with the law of the Universal Church.

This is only 1/4th of this article, please look the rest up on Catholic.com. It answers nearly every conceivable question about this topic, but could only fit this much in my reply.

 

[Phemie]

“In my parish we have been told that altar girls are now officially permitted. Is this true?”

No. The directive covering the liturgical ministry of women is given in the official liturgical instruction Inaestimabile Donum (no. 18), which says, “There are various roles that women can perform in the liturgical assembly: These include reading the word of God and proclaiming the intentions of the prayer of the faithful. Women are not, however, permitted to act as altar servers.”
(canon 292:2).

These statements provide a basis for protecting the liturgy from such innovations as females performing the role of acolyte. Not even a bishop has the authority to make any changes which conflict with the law of the Universal Church.

I’m sorry, but a much more recent document from Rome gives the Bishop the final say for his diocese and where the Bishop has given permission, the priest has the option to allow them or not in his parish

Redemptionis Sacramentum
[47.] It is altogether laudable to maintain the noble custom by which boys or youths, customarily termed servers, provide service of the altar after the manner of acolytes, and receive catechesis regarding their function in accordance with their power of comprehension.[119] Nor should it be forgotten that a great number of sacred ministers over the course of the centuries have come from among boys such as these.[120] Associations for them, including also the participation and assistance of their parents, should be established or promoted, and in such a way greater pastoral care will be provided for the ministers. Whenever such associations are international in nature, it pertains to the competence of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments to establish them or to approve and revise their statutes.[121] Girls or women may also be admitted to this service of the altar, at the discretion of the diocesan Bishop and in observance of the established norms.[122]

 

[THurifer2]

Welcome Haribo,

What you say is very true. My husband said that when girls were allowed the boys would disappear.

I have just spoken to two of my boys/men. They had no objection to serving with girls and had no problem in serving in general. All of my boys, four, served until they were out of high school and went to college. I wondered if they hated to serve. They told me no. Which I know is true because they would eagerly volunteer if the assigned servers failed to show. I would prefer to go back to the term altar boy.

Well, I am glad for your sons that they are not affected by it. I do have so good news…my childhood parish just got its first Males altar server n 5 years…you see when they let girls serve at that particular parish you husbands prophesey came true.

People are being naive if they dont realize the drastic changes of seriousness and devotion in the altar server corps over the last 25 years. Some places seem to being doing OK but the vast majority of prishes around my region have a 5-1 ratio and the seriousness of the job has gone to pot.

 

[Tish]

Our parish currently has three altar boys serving the 8 am daily Mass as well as at each of the four weekend Masses. My boys love to serve with Msgr. as he often will allow the boys to wear the priestly vestments after Mass or will engage them in conversation that causes them to contimplate a priestly vocation. Something that could not be done if girls were present as it would encourage dissidence for them to be thinking of themselves as priests. None of my boys feel that wearing the cassock is sissy (as one young man recently said on this forum) since only boys serve and all the men on the altar are similarly dressed it is a manly thing to do. We are the last parish in our diocese to allow only boys to serve and we are currently going through a down sizing process in which we will soon merge with another parish which does allow girls. I was recently at a Mass at this parish and the reverence we have grown so accustom to at our parish was lacking to the point of distraction. I believe that once the reason for having servers is gone the priest looses interest in promoting this apostolate. I pray we will not loose our 150 year tradition of all boy altar servers. At a time when vocations to the priesthood are at an all time low we do not need to loose this avenue of vocation promotion.

 

[Phemie]

As far as I am concerned, at age 54 an “altar server’s” time is passed. The only reason one that age is serving is to be seen. It is children and young adults who should fulfill that obligation.

My father served from the time he was 12 until he got married at 39 (1925-1952). He was considered an example for all the younger servers. He returned to that ministry at daily Mass when he retired and did it until he could no longer stand and kneel as required. He didn’t do it to be seen, he did it because it was his way of serving his parish, which didn’t have altar servers at daily Mass.

 

[JMMK]

First Point: Strictly speaking the Mass is not handed down through the Bible. Its a function of Sacred Tradition, and it is intended to convey the life of Christ and the life of the Church since its founding by Him.

Second Point: The only ordained roles are Deacon, Priest and Bishop. Altar servers are not required to be ordained.

This brings it to the point where the order of the Mass and who participates in it can be determinded by the Holy See, in accordance with their state: Ordained vs Laity (and Religious in many cases).

I’m of the opinion that training for being an Altar server should be undertaken by all children during their Catechism. They do not all have to be active servers, but everyone should know how. I was a server for 6 years in a little tiny church in Colorado. I learned a lot doing that, though not as much as I would’ve liked.

Learning is what a lot of it is about. It is also a wonderful way to expose the children to all sorts of ways to participate in the Mass either as a Lector, Cantor, Extraodinary Minister, and so on. Also it is a great forum for teaching about the priesthood. What its duties and functions are, who can be in it and why, they history and so on. You wouldn’t believe the myths I’ve heard about the priesthood from Catholics.

Abuses in liturgy and the like come not from change, but from ignorace about why things are as they are.

 

[Phemie]

For the last couple of years we’ve been trying to get families to serve at Mass. That would take away the fear that parents in our area have of having their children abused. At first one or two dads and sons signed up but they didn’t stay with it. We have one boy who will serve but only if he’s not playing hockey, gone to the cabin or any number of other things that his family opts to do rather than come to Mass.

It’s at the point now that there is rarely a vested server, male or female, and most often a woman will get out of her pew, prepare the altar at the Offertory, and stay to present the water for the co-mingling, pour the water for the lavabo, put the cruets away and go back to her pew. Personally, I think that as long as someone steps in like that the parish will not see a lack.

 

[Sure]

**JUST THE FACTS, PLEASE, ON ALTAR GIRLS **
By HELEN HULL HITCHCOCK

This Rock

Volume 4, Number 5

May 1993

Up Front
By Karl Keating

Letters

Dragnet

ANTI-CATHOLICISM GRADUATES TO VIDEO
By KARL KEATING

JUST THE FACTS, PLEASE, ON ALTAR GIRLS
By HELEN HULL HITCHCOCK

Fathers Know Best
The Politically Correct Bible

Old Testament Guide
Ezekiel
By Antonio Fuentes

Quick Questions

Subscribe

Permissions

MUCH confusion surrounds the liturgical ministry of women–and much misinformation also. The misinformation breeds further confusion, hurt feelings, and divisions within parishes. Many Catholics worry that a novel liturgical practice is being introduced in their parishes without approval of the Universal Church. Others don’t see the point of all the fuss.

Following are real-life questions received by Women for Faith & Family. The answers may clarify the issues, promote understanding of some reasons for the prohibition of girls and women from serving in the role of acolyte, and explain why we should be concerned about observing the Church’s laws and discipline.

“In my parish we have been told that altar girls are now officially permitted. Is this true?”

No. The directive covering the liturgical ministry of women is given in the official liturgical instruction Inaestimabile Donum (no. 18), which says, “There are various roles that women can perform in the liturgical assembly: These include reading the word of God and proclaiming the intentions of the prayer of the faithful. Women are not, however, permitted to act as altar servers.”

These instructions are binding, and in full force. Furthermore, the 1983 Code of Canon Law states:

“Since he must protect the unity of the Universal Church, the bishop is bound to promote the common discipline of the whole Church and therefore to urge the observance of all ecclesiastical laws” (can. 292:1).

“He is to be watchful lest abuses creep into ecclesiastical discipline, especially concerning the ministry of the word, the celebration of the sacraments and sacramentals, the worship of God and devotion to the saints, and also the administration of property” (canon 292:2).

These statements provide a basis for protecting the liturgy from such innovations as females performing the role of acolyte. Not even a bishop has the authority to make any changes which conflict with the law of the Universal Church.

This is only 1/4th of this article, please look the rest up on Catholic.com. It answers nearly every conceivable question about this topic, but could only fit this much in my reply.

This is out of date. In 1994, the Congregation for Divine Worship, published a clarification that yes, women can serve at the altar per the Code of Canon Law (1983). You can read it here:

ewtn.com/library/curia/cdwcomm.htm

If your parish has altar girls mine does, recommend that they only have girls serve together and boys serve together. Our girls wear albs and our boys wear cassock and surplice. We have a very large number of boys who serve, perhaps because they don’t serve with the girls.

 

[Joannm]

We have pretty much and equal number of boys and girls and they do not mind serving together. People around here have large families so it is not ucommon to see sisters and brothers serving together as well.

 

[Just_1_hr_a_wk]

I was a lector when I was in grade school (early 70s). I always wished I could have been an altar server.

My son has no interest in being an altar server - nor a lector.

 

[whatevergirl]

My daughter said again recently, about being a nun. I will encourage her, in whatever direction she chooses. I just rediscovered this thread–hope everyone has a joyous and beautiful Christmas! Fill our heart with Jesus.