Female Apostles?

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What evidence (biblical and/or historical) is there to support male only ordination?
What evidence (biblical and/or historical) is there to support the ordination of females?
Has there ever been a female apostle(s)?
Why should the Church only ordain males?
Is the Church sexist?
What role did the female play in the early Church?
What role does the female play in the Church today?
How do we reconcile a (sacramental) priesthood of males-only with the fact that we are all made in the image and likeness of God?

Please feel free to answer whichever question(s) you like. This is really a continuation from remarks made in the thread “Why doesn’t God destroy the devil now?”, which was getting off-topic.
 
I’ll take a few:
What evidence (biblical and/or historical) is there to support the ordination of females?
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None.
Is the Church sexist?
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That depends on how you mean sexist. If you mean recognizing and celebrating the uniqueness of males and females and resisting androgeny, then, yes she is sexist. If you mean somehow being yisogynistic or repressive, then, no.
What role does the female play in the Church today?
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The list is too long to write here. Women participate in virtually every role in the Church that lay men do.
 
How do we reconcile a (sacramental) priesthood of males-only with the fact that we are all made in the image and likeness of God?
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God made men and women different, though you are right that both are made in the image and likeness of God. But they do not have the same roles here on earth. For example, God created women to bear children into this world, but not men. Does this mean that God is sexist? No. It simply means that he created them different to perform equally important tasks. Is it not our task to question the Creator.
 
Schnitz said:
What evidence (biblical and/or historical) is there to support male only ordination?
What evidence (biblical and/or historical) is there to support the ordination of females?
Has there ever been a female apostle(s)?
Why should the Church only ordain males?
Is the Church sexist?
What role did the female play in the early Church?
What role does the female play in the Church today?
How do we reconcile a (sacramental) priesthood of males-only with the fact that we are all made in the image and likeness of God?

Please feel free to answer whichever question(s) you like. This is really a continuation from remarks made in the thread “Why doesn’t God destroy the devil now?”, which was getting off-topic.
Click to expand...
There were NO female apostles. The Apostles were the twelve plus Paul.
 
Schnitz said:
What evidence (biblical and/or historical) is there to support male only ordination?
What evidence (biblical and/or historical) is there to support the ordination of females?
Has there ever been a female apostle(s)?
Why should the Church only ordain males?
Is the Church sexist?
What role did the female play in the early Church?
What role does the female play in the Church today?
How do we reconcile a (sacramental) priesthood of males-only with the fact that we are all made in the image and likeness of God?

Please feel free to answer whichever question(s) you like. This is really a continuation from remarks made in the thread “Why doesn’t God destroy the devil now?”, which was getting off-topic.
Click to expand...
This is a very complex issue, and there has been much written on the topic. Mary Magdalene has certainly been referred to as an apostle, but some contend that does not make her an “Apostle.” Paul refers in his letters to women in leadership roles in the early Church, but there is little agreement today what that means.

My view, which is worth exactly what you are paying for it, is that the Church is clearly sexist, there can be no doubt that an organization that deliberately and systematically limits significant leadership roles to men is by definition “sexist.” The question is whether this institutional sexism is (1) necessary as a matter of faith, (2) justified by practical considerations, or (3) desireable for other reasons. Some in the Church say, yes its all three, others will tell you its #1 so the other two don’t matter. Personally, I don’t think its any of these, but I’m not the person who gets to make this decision, and the person who does seems to have made up his mind on the matter.

To be clear, I agree that there are times when institutional sexism is appropriate. Men and women are different and there are some (although very few) situations where one gender should be institutionally preferred over the other. I just don’t think that the priesthood is one of them. Again, I realize and accept that those charged with making this decision disagree.
 
TMC said:
This is a very complex issue, and there has been much written on the topic. Mary Magdalene has certainly been referred to as an apostle, but some contend that does not make her an “Apostle.” Paul refers in his letters to women in leadership roles in the early Church, but there is little agreement today what that means.

My view, which is worth exactly what you are paying for it, is that the Church is clearly sexist, there can be no doubt that an organization that deliberately and systematically limits significant leadership roles to men is by definition “sexist.” The question is whether this institutional sexism is (1) necessary as a matter of faith, (2) justified by practical considerations, or (3) desireable for other reasons. Some in the Church say, yes its all three, others will tell you its #1 so the other two don’t matter. Personally, I don’t think its any of these, but I’m not the person who gets to make this decision, and the person who does seems to have made up his mind on the matter.

To be clear, I agree that there are times when institutional sexism is appropriate. Men and women are different and there are some (although very few) situations where one gender should be institutionally preferred over the other. I just don’t think that the priesthood is one of them. Again, I realize and accept that those charged with making this decision disagree.
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You are in essence saying Christ was sexist. He established the Catholic Church, chose only men to be his Apostles and gave Peter and the Apostles Authority.
 
thistle said:
You are in essence saying Christ was sexist. He established the Catholic Church, chose only men to be his Apostles and gave Peter and the Apostles Authority.
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Two points. First, I did say anything (even in essence) about Christ. What I did say is that there seems to be some controversy over whether Christ chose only men to be his Apostles, as Magdalene is considered by some to be an Apostle. Second, you seem to be assuming (although maybe I’m wrong) that being sexist is always a bad thing. Nearly everyone is sexist in some ways, if sexism means making decisions based on gender. My whole point is that the real question is whether this is a time when sexism is appropriate. Of course, if by sexism you mean devaluing, disrepecting or dishonoring one sex, Christ was certainly no sexist.
 
Schnitz said:
What evidence (biblical and/or historical) is there to support male only ordination?.
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The Son of God was/is Incarnate as a Male:

bringyou.to/apologetics/a49.htm
What evidence (biblical and/or historical) is there to support the ordination of females?
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0
Has there ever been a female apostle(s)?
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No.
Why should the Church only ordain males?
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bringyou.to/apologetics/a51.htm
Is the Church sexist?
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No.
How do we reconcile a (sacramental) priesthood of males-only with the fact that we are all made in the image and likeness of God?
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All being made in the image and likeness of God does not mean that the distinction between male and female established within Creation is obliterated on the natural level (and therefore on the level of natural symbol), but this distinction does not exclude any man or woman from salvation. The Sacrament of Holy Orders, however, is not established for everyone, but only for some, and is for the purpose of bringing to the Bride of Christ, the Church, a continuation of the definite God-Man Jesus’ sacrificial offering, forgiveness of sins, ruling the people, teaching them
 
TMC said:
What I did say is that there seems to be some controversy over whether Christ chose only men to be his Apostles, as Magdalene is considered by some to be an Apostle.
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Saint Mary Magdalene is given the title Apostle to the Apostles because she brought the (at that point) eleven Apostles the first news of the Resurrection. But, she is not an Apostle in the sense of being part of the nascent episcopacy. It is just a title, like Saint Cyril and Methodius being named Apostles to the Slavs, even though, living centuries after the Apostles, they were not part of the original Apostles.
 
JMJ_coder said:
Saint Mary Magdalene is given the title Apostle to the Apostles because she brought the (at that point) eleven Apostles the first news of the Resurrection. But, she is not an Apostle in the sense of being part of the nascent episcopacy. It is just a title, like Saint Cyril and Methodius being named Apostles to the Slavs, even though, living centuries after the Apostles, they were not part of the original Apostles.
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So is Paul not an Apostle? Mary Magdalene has been called an Apostle throughout the history of the Church, but maybe she is a small “a” apostle and not a big “A” apostle. Regardless of the semantics, I came across this interesting commentary from Pope Benedict discussing women in the early Church:

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/b16ChrstChrch30.HTM

Not suggesting it supports necessarily that Mary M was a big A apostle, just proving it because its on point and interesting.
 
Priests need to be males because they are ‘acting in persona cristi’ (I apologize for any spelling errors in my latin)- that means acting in the person of Christ. Christ was a male, not a female. It’s not a question of sexism, but rather a question of logic.

I would also like to mention that women hold equal importance in the Church (just under different roles). Lay women can pretty much do anything a lay man can do. Then there are, of course, the nuns. And we can’t forget that God chose woman to bring life into the world… Last time I checked men can’t be pregnant!! (But are still important to the equation of course :p).

But anyway… People really shouldn’t be so bent out of shape about women not being able to be priests. It just isn’t natural. To me a woman wanting to be a priests makes just as much sense as a man wanting to find a way through science to give birth… If you’ve ever seen the movie “Junior” you know how stupid that is… lol

😃
 
Just wanted to clarify a misconception that Q Bee stated in the Why Doesn’t God Destroy the Devil Now thread.

She stated that Jesus did not ordain anyone (and, by implication, the Apostles and Holy Orders were not divinely commissioned.)

But this is false. I do not know the exact Scripture references, but Jesus breathed on the Twelve in John’s Gospel, giving them the authority to absolve sins in His Name.

Later on in Pentecost, the Holy Spirit descended and the rest of the Sacramental authority that priests and bishops have today was bestowed upon the Apostles.

Just wanted to correct the false theory that the Holy Orders were not divinely commissioned.

Also, she stated that the “twelve” was a symbolic group, and that the Twelve mentioned in each Gospel were conflicting accounts, rather than twelve disciples simply being referred to by different names. Is there any proof to back up this theory? First time I’ve ever heard this one.
 
TMC said:
So is Paul not an Apostle? Mary Magdalene has been called an Apostle throughout the history of the Church, but maybe she is a small “a” apostle and not a big “A” apostle. Regardless of the semantics, I came across this interesting commentary from Pope Benedict discussing women in the early Church:

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/b16ChrstChrch30.HTM

Not suggesting it supports necessarily that Mary M was a big A apostle, just proving it because its on point and interesting.
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Saint Paul was an Apostle, in the same sense as Saint Peter. Saint Paul was part of the nascent episcopacy. There was never a time when any woman was ordained as a priest or bishop.
 
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Matariel:
I do not know the exact Scripture references, but Jesus breathed on the Twelve in John’s Gospel, giving them the authority to absolve sins in His Name.
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You are referring to John 20:22-23:

“And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.’”

It should be noted though that there are only 10 Apostles present for this. Obviously, Judas isn’t around. The missing Apostle is Thomas, who we read about in the section falling this.
 
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Matariel:
Just wanted to clarify a misconception that Q Bee stated in the Why Doesn’t God Destroy the Devil Now thread.
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Hahaha. One of many.🙂
 
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