Female 'great saints' with sordid pasts..?

[jack63]

Not a Saint yet, but they have certainly started the process…Dorothy Day. She had an abortion and was a socialist activist in her youth. She is ironically quoted as…

“Don’t make me out to be a saint. I don’t want to be dismissed that easily.”

Sainthood cause for Dorothy Day picking up steam in U.S. | Crux

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[CTBcin]

Saint Olga of Kiev - she was a princess. When a foreign prince & his entourage came to court her, she told them to wash up from their long journey. They agreed and went to a bathhouse. Then she locked them all inside and set the building on fire.
(That was when she was a pagan, before she converted.)

She was the first saint I thought of… absolutely brutal. She was seeking revenge for her husband’s death, I believe.

 

[InThePew]

Not a Saint yet, but they have certainly started the process…Dorothy Day. She had an abortion and was a socialist activist in her youth.

You read my mind! Just a slight correction, Dorothy wasn’t simply a socialist (although arguably she was a socialist her whole life) she was quite literally a card-carrying communist as well as living in a relationship outside of marriage. If ever there was a saint for our times she would surely be it!

 

[Inbonum]

OurLadyofSorrows, Tis and other posters thank you for explainig about St.Mary Magdalene, because I never heard that what I believed could be wrong…
The thing is also whenever I mention that nobody would correct me so I never doubted it.
I found many articles, I will read it to get better picture.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

There are still many homilies, movies etc that show her as a reformed prostitute. “Risen” for example just came out a couple years ago and it has her being a prostitute known to all the soldiers, who reformed and followed Jesus.

But as Phil and others said, we don’t know if this is true. Might be, might not be.

I think in the post-Vatican II era, many people felt that the historic Church had tried to denigrate the image of a strong woman disciple who was on the level of the Apostles, by making her into a “bad” woman with no clear evidence that she lived immorally.

 

[LilyM]

i would have to say, where do you think the demons came from? you can’t be possessed without allowing it and if you allow it, it is reasonable to assume you are giving in to some kind of deadly sin (or sin at a deadly level). so true, there is no evidence of the specific sin, but i wonder if just having sin in a lot of areas regardless of how deep in each you are can be an entryway…

There is such a thing as being “oppressed” by demons rather than possessed. St Padre Pio was one such case. You don’t need to have a particularly sinful or sordid past for oppression - Job in the Bible and Jesus being tempted by Satan are kinda sorta instances that show this.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

This is not teaching of the church.

 

[BornInMarch]

Yes, but that’s not the full story. Olgas husband Igor was brutally tortured to death by the Drevlians, and after they did this the tribe wanted her to marry his murderer … who probably would have killed her young son to ensure his own bloodline inherited the throne of Kiev.

In other words she was experiencing the grief of a widow, the desire to avenge the murder of her husband, and the maternal instinct to protect her child at all cost.

 

[francisca.chapter3]

Inbonum:

St. Mary Magdalene

There is no evidence of anything except Jesus driving demons out of this great saint.

If Jesus drove out 7 demonds out of her, we can be sure she has sordid past.

Demonds who possess a person wouldn’t sit still doing nothing to that person.

Mary Magdalene represent a repentant church, the one that Jesus said the whole heavens throw a party for. The person who love more because received more forgiveness. The opposite of the kind of purity who need no forgiveness because sinless since conception…

 

[Inbonum]

If Jesus drove out 7 demonds out of her, we can be sure she has sordid past.

Demonds who possess a person wouldn’t sit still doing nothing to that person.

Since we don’t have much evidence about her past life we cannot discuss it too much, we can only guess.
As you can read that is questionable, find articles that someone posted in previous posts and read them to get better picture on this theme.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

My comment on it not being a teaching of the church could have been better communicated. I meant your comment about that to be possessed you are giving in to some kind of deadly sin or a sin at a deadly level.

I am always reminded of the woman, not sure if she is a saint yet, who was very good and holy and had diabolical trouble for much of her life, I would rather use the term diabolical troubles as opposed to obsessed as we have a few great and holy saints and people who do have diabolical troubles, the most familiar would be St Padre Pio.

The woman I refer to , also private revelation, was given the option of being possessed after she was exorcised , and agreed again, for the suffering of others.

I would also say sin is something we must be fully aware of and meet the three conditions , for it to be a sin we commit. In the days of St Mary Magdalene and Jesus , the Jewish view of wrong doing , sin and purifying after sin was a little different.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

If Jesus drove out 7 demonds out of her, we can be sure she has sordid past

That is just not accurate. We can look at Judas for example, who was chosen as an Apostle and became diabolically influenced by the devil to betray Jesus. There is no evidence in Scripture or outside Scripture that Judas had a sordid past.

 

[CoffeeFanatic]

You’re very right, in everything you’ve said regarding the Holy Myrrh-bearer and Equal to the Apostles. In the East, St. Mary Magdalene is never associated as a prostitute as she is in the West. Personally, I think the East has preserved more accurate hagiographies of the saints of the early Church.

 

[francisca.chapter3]

When a sinner repent, and become a nun, for example, would the church community keep talking about her past (when she was possessed by demonds), all throughout her lifetime? No. The community who see her as a nun, will remember her as a nun. And it is written that once a person repent, God no longer remember his/her sins.

Mary Magdalene turns into a holy woman, and that’s how the church remember her. So most probably that explains why she her sordid past is not in any records of tradition.

That is just not accurate. We can look at Judas for example, who was chosen as an Apostle and became diabolically influenced by the devil to betray Jesus. There is no evidence in Scripture or outside Scripture that Judas had a sordid past.

Judas was a scribe. He had a shiny past before he betrayed Jesus. He fell into temptation and commited suicide. It is not impossible for a person with good past to fall later in life.

But a person possessed by 7 demonds, she must have done terrible things, because the term “possessed” means she was a slave to those demonds, and therefore had done terrible things as demonds’ slave

Mary Magdalene is the most strong testimony of Jesus Teaching of Salvation based on the Forgiveness of Sins

In contrast, compare the above, with a teaching that Mother Mary received special grace of holiness since conception, something that Jesus never teach such a teaching neither The Old testament ever mentioned it.

Whatever God revealed, we receives. Whatever God didn’t reveal, doesn’t exist. We should not make up our own teaching by way of our own philosophy/ theology, and call it tradition. It is not tradition if it is in conflict with divine revelation. If God has never give such revelation, then it is not part of any church tradition: it is an independent stomp completely separate from The Vine

To disregard St. Mary Magdalene’s past to fit the kind of purity that does not fit the teaching of the Bible.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

But a person possessed by 7 demonds, she must have done terrible things, because the term “possessed” means she was a slave to those demonds, and therefore had done terrible things as demonds’ slave

No one is culpable if a demon is controlling the body and it is unknown what they would have done.

 

[BarbTh]

(That was when she was a pagan, before she converted.)

Pheww!..had me worried there for a second or two

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

Mary Magdalene turns into a holy woman, and that’s how the church remember her. So most probably that explains why she her sordid past is not in any records of tradition.

There is absolutely NO tradition or suggestion or writing in the Catholic Church that Mary had a ‘sordid’ past.

Learn some early Church History. Mary is thought to have came from Magdala, from a well to do family and helped fund the ministry of Jesus as did quite a few well to do women who followed Him.

Please stop denigrating a great saint , one Jesus chose to reveal Himself to after His resurrection.

But a person possessed by 7 demonds, she must have done terrible things, because the term “possessed” means she was a slave to those demonds, and therefore had done terrible things as demonds’ slave

It does not mean ‘slave to demons’ at all.

To disregard St. Mary Magdalene’s past to fit the kind of purity that does not fit the teaching of the Bible.

To make up unfounded fables about a person’s past is to commit calumny against that person.

 

[francisca.chapter3]

Mary Magdalene exorcism was before Jesus was crucified. There is no evidence for your conviction either. Whatever written about her after Jesus drove out those demonds, you do not have any evidence she has clean past before then. Yes she followed Jesus around after the exorcism.

My evidence is what’s written. She was not merely tempted by demonds. She was possessed. Demonds cannot possess a person without any concent from herself or her parents or her ancestors. She was sold as a slave to those demonds.

If those demonds did not cause her to sin, then Jesus driving them out, saved her from what exactly?

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

Mary Magdalene exorcism was before Jesus was crucified.

There is no evidence for your conviction either. Whatever written about her after Jesus drove out those demonds, you do not have any evidence she has clean past before then. Yes she followed Jesus around after the exorcism.

My evidence is what’s written. She was not merely tempted by demonds. She was possessed. Demonds cannot possess a person without any concent from herself or her parents or her ancestors. She was sold as a slave to those demonds.

If those demonds did not cause her to sin, then Jesus driving them out, saved her from what exactly?

The word is demon , not demond.

There is no evidence anywhere, nothing, that states St Mary Magdelene was a prostitute, an adulterer, or had a sordid past.

 

[francisca.chapter3]

Ofcourse there is none, for she has become Jesus follower even before Jesus was crucified. Why would the other saints talk about her past? It’s not like the saints enjoy gossiping other saints, right?