Female Homily

[Kanda]

Here is the letter I have begun to write, but I need some help:

Dear Father,

I am writing to you because I was disconcerted during Mass on the fourth Sunday of Advent. I was concerned and surprised that the homily was delivered by a lay person, rather than by your self. I did a bit of checking to see if my concern was well founded and found the following from Redemptionis Sacramentum:

[64.] The homily, which is given in the course of the celebration of Holy Mass and is a part of the Liturgy itself,142 “should ordinarily be given by the Priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating Priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to a Deacon, but never to a layperson.143 In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a Priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate”.144

And

[66.] The prohibition of the admission of laypersons to preach within the Mass applies also to seminarians, students of theological disciplines, and those who have assumed the function of those known as “pastoral assistants”; nor is there to be any exception for any other kind of layperson, or group, or community, or association.146

Also, in my research, I have noticed some other practices which differ and would like the opportunity to discuss them with you.

Thanks:thumbsup:

 

[benedictgal]

That was an excellent letter.

There is one thing I forgot to mention. What the woman was “preaching” was a hair short of heresy. RS also mandates what the homily should entail:

[67.] Particular care is to be taken so that the homily is firmly based upon the mysteries of salvation, expounding the mysteries of the Faith and the norms of Christian life from the biblical readings and liturgical texts throughout the course of the liturgical year and providing commentary on the texts of the Ordinary or the Proper of the Mass, or of some other rite of the Church.147 It is clear that all interpretations of Sacred Scripture are to be referred back to Christ Himself as the one upon whom the entire economy of salvation hinges, though this should be done in light of the specific context of the liturgical celebration. In the homily to be given, care is to be taken so that the light of Christ may shine upon life’s events. Even so, this is to be done so as not to obscure the true and unadulterated word of God: for instance, treating only of politics or profane subjects, or drawing upon notions derived from contemporary pseudo-religious currents as a source.148
[68.] The diocesan Bishop must diligently oversee the preaching of the homily,149 also publishing norms and distributing guidelines and auxiliary tools to the sacred ministers, and promoting meetings and other projects for this purpose so that they may have the opportunity to consider the nature of the homily more precisely and find help in its preparation.

Her rantings and ravings certainly didn’t conform to what the Church prescribes for homily material. Of course, having her “preach” it was already setting the stage for a major abuse.

I also believe that only the lector is to carry the Book of the Gospels, if there is no Deacon assisting at the Mass.

Here is what the GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal) has to say:

1. Once the people have gathered, the priest and ministers, clad in the sacred vestments, go in procession to the altar in this order:

The thurifer carrying a thurible with burning incense, if incense is used;

The ministers who carry lighted candles, and between them an acolyte or other minister with the cross;

The acolytes and the other ministers;

***A lector, who may carry the Book of the Gospels (though not the Lectionary), which should be slightly elevated; ***
The priest who is to celebrate the Mass.

While the priest is trying to “include” everyone, it gives a false sense of “active participation.” In order to “actively participate”, taking a “role” in the Mass is not necessary. I participate just as actively when I am part of the faithful in the pews and praying and singing as I do when I serve as a lector.

I hope this helps.

 

[Kanda]

That was an excellent letter.

There is one thing I forgot to mention. What the woman was “preaching” was a hair short of heresy. RS also mandates what the homily should entail:

Her rantings and ravings certainly didn’t conform to what the Church prescribes for homily material. Of course, having her “preach” it was already setting the stage for a major abuse.

I also believe that only the lector is to carry the Book of the Gospels, if there is no Deacon assisting at the Mass.

Here is what the GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal) has to say:

While the priest is trying to “include” everyone, it gives a false sense of “active participation.” In order to “actively participate”, taking a “role” in the Mass is not necessary. I participate just as actively when I am part of the faithful in the pews and praying and singing as I do when I serve as a lector.

I hope this helps.

Thanks for the on the letter… does it sound too uneducated or casual though?

Also, regarding the gospel… No one processes it at the beginning as is described in the part from the GIRM. It is already on the altar when we arrive. At my parish, while the church is singing the Alleluia, someone will get up and take the gosple off of the altar, then they will process it around the altar (the chairs are set up in a circle around it) and end at the ambo to give it to the priest. The priest will then do the reading and when he is done, he gives it back to the person. That person will take it and set it on the stand in front of the ambo and the priest will bow and kiss it. Then he usually gives his homily.

 

[benedictgal]

Thanks for the on the letter… does it sound too uneducated or casual though?

Also, regarding the gospel… No one processes it at the beginning as is described in the part from the GIRM. It is already on the altar when we arrive. At my parish, while the church is singing the Alleluia, someone will get up and take the gosple off of the altar, then they will process it around the altar (the chairs are set up in a circle around it) and end at the ambo to give it to the priest. The priest will then do the reading and when he is done, he gives it back to the person. That person will take it and set it on the stand in front of the ambo and the priest will bow and kiss it. Then he usually gives his homily.

The letter sounds like you put in a lot of thought and effort. Believe me, it’s not easy to write these kinds of things. My dad had to sit down and write one to his pastor regarding some serious abuses. What helps is that you use the documents to back up your points. A friend of mine calls it “document warfare”, but, you need to engage in that. That is why documents like RS and the GIRM exist.

Here is the GIRM citation on the appropriate procession for the Book of the Gospels before the Gospel is proclaimed:

1. During the singing of the Alleluia or other chant, if incense is used, the priest puts some into the thurible and blesses it. Then, with hands joined, he bows profoundly before the altar and quietly says, Munda cor meum (May the word of the gospel wipe away our sins).

1. If the Book of the Gospels is on the altar, the priest then takes it and goes to the ambo, carrying the Book of the Gospels slightly elevated and preceded by the lay ministers, who may carry the thurible and the candles. Those present turn towards the ambo as a sign of special reverence to the Gospel of Christ.

============================================
I think I bled into my own quote. I inserted these brackets so as to not confuse you.

The quoted section from the GIRM clearly shows that only the priest or deacon is to do this, no one else. The kinds of practices that the priest is employing are doing no one any good. What he is doing is pretty much “cobbling up the liturgy” for himself.

I don’ t know if you have the opportunity, but you might want to get hold of the book, Spirit of the Liturgy, by Pope Benedict XVI. This will give you a good idea of the direction where the Church is heading as far as the Mass is concerned.

God bless you. Have a most blessed Christmas!

 

[kleary]

I found it rather refreshing and a sign of our time. I’m surprised that you as a woman are having such a difficult time with this. There should be women behind the pulpit and you should feel blessed that this is happening in your church.

Ughhh…I just threw up in my mouth.

Not even a man who is not ordained to the priesthood or diaconate is allowed to give the homily.

No wonder I attend the EF every chance I get…so sick of this cr*p it is not worth fighting anymore…let them have the buildings and their sacrelidge…God will deal with them on judgement day.

Ken

 

[Tedster]

Thanks for the on the letter… does it sound too uneducated or casual though?

I kind of doubt it. It may sound too educated for your pastor, based upon what he thinks is allowed!!! (sarcasm intended)

Seriously, I thought it was an excellent letter. However, be prepared for either no response or an unfavorable response. My bet is that your letter will not sit well with your pastor. Give him some time then move up the chain and write the same type of letter to your bishop.

But don’t give up the fight!

 

[japhy]

I have written a short series on the homily on my blog. There are three posts, and they cover who can give it, when it should be given, and what its purpose is. You might want to check it out; it is simply a collection of various excerpts from Church documents (such as Redemptionis Sacramentum – abbreviated as RS – and the General Instruction of the Roman Missal – abbreviated as GIRM) that answer the questions. There is virtually no opinion in the posts, simply Church law and teachings.

-gospel is always processed by a lay person

If there is no deacon, the Book of Gospels may be processed in at the beginning of Mass by a lector (and placed on the altar).

-blue instead of purple for Advent

Purple is the correct color, blue is incorrect, but I’m sure you knew that already.

-the entire parish sings with the priest the prayer “Through Him, with Him, in Him, …”

The Eucharistic Prayer is reserved solely to the priest. It is an abuse to permit the laity to recite part of it (cf. RS, n. 52).

-glass chalices and patens

Glass is not permitted (cf. RS, n. 117).

-Precious Blood is poured into wine glasses (chalices) from a pitcher after the communion prayer

TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE, as it is an abuse directly against the Precious Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. This practice “is completely to be avoided, lest anything should happen that would be to the detriment of so great a mystery” (RS, n. 106).

-people are invited forward for “blessingettes” for birthdays, anniversaries, etc.

There is a “Book of Blessings”, and I’m sure it contains such things… however, these types of things (in my opinion) are best done privately, or, if the must happen at Mass, after the prayer after Communion (when announcements are to be given).

-the pastoral associate and another female lay person kiss the altar with the priest after he processes in at the beginning

The presence of extra people in the Sanctuary is frowned upon; only those people who need to be in there should be there, and only then when they are needed. There is nothing that calls for the altar to be kissed by anyone other than the priest and deacon (cf. GIRM 49, 90). There is no reason for them to be kissing the altar.

-On Good Friday, instead of a homily, the youth group does a Passion Play

Wrong.

-There is no kneeling, ever, (except on Good Friday) by the priest or anyone else

Ugh. Very wrong. At the very least, kneeling is required during the Eucharistic Prayer, as well as during the line “By the power of the Holy Spirit, he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man” during the Creed on Christmas and Easter.

Regarding the content of her “homily”… she’s “looking for [hope] in all the wrong places”. Perhaps she should read the Holy Father’s latest encyclical, Spe Salvi, in which he writes about the only true and lasting hope humans can have. Instead, she talked about giving people false hopes: letting them do things that break the rules, which they then become accustomed to, and when that rule is finally enforced, they feel hurt because they can no longer do the thing they liked; letting them embrace their sins despite what the Church says, because people support their sinful lifestyles; making people think “old church documents” (like… the Bible, maybe?) are not useful anymore and can and should be supplanted by newer, modern, liberal documents; and finally, by giving them the wrong impression about the rules and regulations of the Church today (such as that only the ordained may give homilies).

 

[japhy]

At my parish, while the church is singing the Alleluia, someone will get up and take the gosple off of the altar, then they will process it around the altar (the chairs are set up in a circle around it) and end at the ambo to give it to the priest. The priest will then do the reading and when he is done, he gives it back to the person. That person will take it and set it on the stand in front of the ambo and the priest will bow and kiss it. Then he usually gives his homily.

Ah, ok. That’s weird, totally outside of the rubrics, and wrong. If they really want people involved, why not have the altar servers incense it?

Thanks for the on the letter… does it sound too uneducated or casual though?

If you want assistance in writing the letter (or follow-ups), I offer it. benedictgal and others who may be reading this thread know I wrote one to a priest who celebrated an abuse-ridden Mass a month and a half ago. My posting in the forum was a rant, but the letter I wrote was very level-headed, earnest, and presented my concerns with documentary evidence. You can find it in this thread.

(I haven’t heard back from the priest, and I won’t. Not because of the tone or style of my letter, but simply because he refuses to acknowledge it.)

 

[PhilipCal]

After all the smoke clears and the dust settles, the “Female Homily” is an abuse. Canon Law is pretty clear on the point, and states that a homily can only be given by a Priest or Deacon. Included within the Priest catagory would be Bishops Cardinals, and the Holy Father. They are, after all, Priests. While the lady may have had some interesting and even valid things to say, the Mass is neither the proper time, place, or setting for that.

 

[THurifer2]

-gospel is always processed by a lay person
-blue instead of purple for Advent
-the entire parish sings with the priest the prayer "Through Him, with Him, in Him, …"
-glass chalices and patens
-Precious Blood is poured into wine glasses (chalices) from a pitcher after the communion prayer
-people are invited forward for “blessingettes” for birthdays, anniversaries, etc.
-the pastoral associate and another female lay person kiss the altar with the priest after he processes in at the beginning
-On Good Friday, instead of a homily,** the youth group does a Passion Play**
-There is no kneeling, ever, (except on Good Friday) by the priest or anyone else

Please, I am not trying to nitpick and this is not what I am focusing on during mass. These are just things I have noticed over the years I have been attending at this parish and have always thought were normal. Just since I’ve joined this forum have I learned that it is not.

The above abuses especially the bolded items are more than minor abuses. This appears to be a renegade liberal parish and one needs to examine whether it is morally acceptable to be a member of this parish. The liturgy appears to be barely Catholic.

 

[dessert]

We have had a homily by a nun a few times in another Church, even to do the homily she had to have credentials and she was engaged in a school and taking classes to further her education and so she was allowed and she was 86. She is still going strong.
That is the only reason I spoke as get all the facts or you will look like an embarassment to your self and the Church but writing a letter is the only way to find out. We have had seminarians give haomilies also but usually talked about their life and I think it is to give them speaking exercises and our priest always gets permiss fromt the bishop. Just check it all out!
God bless you for the Christmas of Jesus Christ birth. Amen .

 

[John_Lilburne]

It sounds as though these abuses will be difficult to fix. I suggest I wide range of approaches. Writing one letter can be like planting one seed.

The parable of the sower (Mark 4:3-8) highlights the need for lots of seeds.

Some approaches:
Letters to the bishop, Vatican.
Conversations with parishioners.
Getting on the liturgy committee.
Improving the parishioners understanding of the liturgical books.
Supporting parishioners who care about the liturgical laws.
Publicising the liturgical abuses.
Bringing tribunal cases against people for breaching canon 846 of the Code of Canon Law.
Gathering evidence of abuses (documents, videoes, keeping a journal).

 

[Tedster]

We have had a homily by a nun a few times in another Church, even to do the homily she had to have credentials and she was engaged in a school and taking classes to further her education and so she was allowed and she was 86. She is still going strong.

I hope you are not implying that this was OK? As benedictgal’s post (#15) says, only a priest or deacon is allowed to give the homily. Your example is also a violation of Canon law as a nun is not ordained. Maybe I am misunderstanding your post.

From Canon Law:

Canon 767 §1 The most important form of preaching is the homily, which is part of the liturgy, and is reserved to a priest or deacon. In the course of the liturgical year, the mysteries of faith and the rules of Christian living are to be expounded in the homily from the sacred text.

 

[dessert]

I hope you are not implying that this was OK? As benedictgal’s post (#15) says, only a priest or deacon is allowed to give the homily. Your example is also a violation of Canon law as a nun is not ordained. Maybe I am misunderstanding your post.

From Canon Law:

She did not do this on a Sunday, this was done during daily mass, when the priest was not there.

 

[water]

She did not do this on a Sunday, this was done during daily mass, when the priest was not there.

When the priest is not there, we only have Communion service. Even then, I don’t see there should be a role of a female giving homily in this service.

 

[Tedster]

She did not do this on a Sunday, this was done during daily mass, when the priest was not there.

There is no distinction. It is not permissible at any Mass. If it was a communion service, that’s different. That might be the case. Since you state the priest was not there, I hope that it was a communion service, otherwise you did not attend a valid mass, but that’s a whole different web of abuse!

 

[dessert]

There is no distinction. It is not permissible at any Mass. If it was a communion service, that’s different. That might be the case. Since you state the priest was not there, I hope that it was a communion service, otherwise you did not attend a valid mass, but that’s a whole different web of abuse!

I’m not sure of the diff of communion service and sunday mass but of course I know many do the readings at both so they both seem to be a mass, if this is correct.

Our priest does a complete funeral mass like it is sunday so is this not call a mass ither becuase it is a funeral?

Except no offering of gifts at any but sunday.

 

[dessert]

When the priest is not there, we only have Communion service. Even then, I don’t see there should be a role of a female giving homily in this service.

They call it teachings, that is how they get around it calling it a homily.
I don’t like homilies during communion service either but our priest does all the time but keeps them shorter than sunday, I’m not in the Church with the nun anymore, that is the other story as I think the nuns are going to answer to God for many abuses I think IMHO they have changed way to much. When I can act, just act I mean, with love and respect with more sincerety than a nun there is something wrong, when I speak more politely of the priest than a nun, what is wrong here? I am wearing skirts and dresses now not to show off but I wear them at home now to it is helping my relationship with my husband and my marriage but if the nuns think I am outdoing them well it really isn’t hard these days and I don’t care what they think.
When I attend Church, more frequently, than them, well I am going on a beef now don’t want to ruin this thread.
Everyone have a Blessed Christmas:thumbsup:

 

[water]

I don’t think we should skip homily even it is Communion Service; however, I don’t see any part of a Communion Service is called “teachings”.

I could see that sometimes we are so eager to teach others, and we ourselves fail to let us be taught by our superior.

 

[Tedster]

I’m not sure of the diff of communion service and sunday mass but of course I know many do the readings at both so they both seem to be a mass, if this is correct.

A communion service is very similar to a mass but there is no consecration of the Blessed Sacrament (which is done at a prior mass). There are readings and prayers said. It follows the norms set forth in the missal.

Our priest does a complete funeral mass like it is sunday so is this not call a mass ither becuase it is a funeral?

Except no offering of gifts at any but sunday.

Yes, it is a funeral mass which is outlined in the missal too.

From Redemptionis Sacramentum:

[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday. Priests are therefore earnestly requested to celebrate Mass daily for the people in one of the churches entrusted to their care.