Female priests and patriarchy

[graciew]

It is basically based on Apostolic Succession.
And quite honestly, sometimes issues are raised for the purpose of “ rights” and everything goes into the bundle.
As to the priesthood no, as to ministry ,yes.
Pope Francis said “ That door is closed “.

And that is fine.

 

[JosephJohn]

My friend, this seems out of order to me. The person seems to have misunderstood you, and they perceived that what you said was something which would be genuinely uncharitable to say. If this person believes everything you seemed to assume you believe why not keep your cool and answer them charitably. Maybe clarify so they understand the thing they took offense to isn’t actually what we think at all.

 

[Usige]

yankeesouth:

Women want more ‘power’ in the Church? Nothing more important than passing on the Faith to children.

Because that’s a woman’s job? Maybe the father could stay home and pass on the faith to the children while his wife works as a parish administrator or a papal nuncio.

Ummm… not sure why you’d jump to that conclusion unless you already had a bias against anything that even tangentially whispers of “traditional” gender roles.

Even a cursory reading of the article shows that clergy (or any curial position for that mater) doesn’t make as big an impact as people (male or female) that focus on changing society by bringing the Faith to kids. The Gospel wasn’t spread by St Paul siting at a desk trying to figure out how to pay for lights when no one wanted to give a drachma. He did it by??? Drumroll please… Teaching people the faith in small groups of people.

 

[Lea101]

I was having a long talk with a loved one about modern politics and this question came up and I didn’t have a good answer.

I promise you, you won’t find a good answer. Many women (and men) I know don’t know how to explain it in length, it’s ultimately about obedience because God says so.

Is there any reason why, for instance, prefects of various Vatican congregations, papal nuncios, and the like, have to be priests? Apostolic administrators of dioceses, even? Why not male and female religious, or for that matter, laypeople of either sex?

This is a good question, and I wonder why. I know a woman can be a chancellor of a diocese. This would be an administrative role. The woman who wrote an article someone posted is one, I believe.

Women want more ‘power’ in the Church? Nothing more important than passing on the Faith to children.

I thought fathers are the ones who are more effective in passing the faith to children. That being said, not every woman will have a child to pass things down to anyway.

 

[Usige]

HomeschoolDad:

Is there any reason why, for instance, prefects of various Vatican congregations, papal nuncios, and the like, have to be priests? Apostolic administrators of dioceses, even? Why not male and female religious, or for that matter, laypeople of either sex?

This is a good question, and I wonder why. I know a woman can be a chancellor of a diocese. This would be an administrative role. The woman who wrote an article someone posted is one, I believe.

I’d have to think about it more fully, but one reason laypersons (male or female) can serve as Chancellor is because that office does not normally execute any of the ordinary powers of governance. The office serves to maintain the archive of diocesan documents and acts as the notary, but it does not exercise legislative, executive or judicial power. This is different from the Vicar General who exercises executive power by right of their office or the Judicial Vicar who exercises judicial power.

Certain functions can only be handled by priests or bishops as they involve pastoral care of souls and thereby require the ability to provide the sacraments. What I’d need to go back and look at is the theological reasons underlying the canons that limit certain “administrative powers” to clerics. I’m positive we covered it in canon law, just can’t dredge up the specific underpinnings without my notes.

 

[PeterT]

I think Fr. Mike Schmitz in this video does a good job explaining why priests have to be men in a simple to understand level:

 

[Lea101]

but one reason laypersons (male or female) can serve as Chancellor is because that office does not normally execute any of the ordinary powers of governance. The office serves to maintain the archive of diocesan documents and acts as the notary, but it does not exercise legislative, executive or judicial power.

Ah I see.

What I’d need to go back and look at is the theological reasons underlying the canons that limit certain “administrative powers” to clerics

I’ve never come across this as well, maybe someone can offer some insight.

Have they really benefitted from having women in power? Or have they just slipped deeper into heresy?

The insinuation that female leaders=increased heresy is pretty lazy.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

Why must there be precedent for doing something? At one time, we could have said that here in the US there was no precedent for a woman, a black man or a Catholic to be President.

The Catholic Church is not like a secular government. Government is a man made system. Government can set itself up and change its way of functioning according to the whims of the people.

The church is a divine institution. When God tells us to do things a certain way, we do it that way. Christ decided that only men would be his apostles. He ordained only those men, and they carried out their mission. They went on to only ordain men as their successors. The Tradition is clear.

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

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[steph03]

None of the apostolic churches have ordained women (Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox)… And I noticed that all those churches who did almost immediately (over time) became very liberal in their theology

 

[1ke]

Why is it impossible to ordain women priests? I have never heard a satisfying answer (though I trust and merely want to understand the church’s teaching).

Read Ordinatio Sacerdotalis by John Paul II.

Why are the powers to legislate canon law and hold near monarchal control over parishes held only by priests?

They are the shepherds put there by Christ.

I think the second issue is more controversial actually because most people see the administrative as more important than the sacramental sadly.

There are many women in the Holy See, diocesan Curia, and parish administration— and there are certainly Church documents on women and their role in the Church.

 

[Fauken]

Now I can’t think of any organization which exists without any female (name removed by moderator)ut at all but I think it’s fair to say that since the sexes are complements that complementarity should carry through every aspect of our existence.

Define “complimentary”. Doesn’t motherhood compliment fatherhood? Women can be nuns, sisters, and consecrated virgins, all of which are things men cannot do, yet I don’t hear people complain and say that their environment is toxic.

And men do indeed need women; any male only system in absolute deject isolation from women will fail if the men are tainted by original sin.

First of all, men and women both suffer from the effects of Original Sin. Secondly, Orginal Sin is wiped away with baptism, which is a requirement to be ordained. Third of all, there is a difference between saying the priesthood is isolated from women and saying the priesthood is all-male. There are women who teach in seminaries. There are women on parish councils that men interact with. There are the priests’ mothers. Just because the priesthood is only for men does not make it isolated.

since the sexes are complements that complementarity should carry through every aspect of our existence.

Making women priests is not complimentary. It is expecting women to do everything. Women have to be priests, virgins, and mothers. They have to take up fatherhood and motherhood. Men are incapable of doing anything themselves.

Men are not women. Women are not men. Both are equal, but they are not, and do not need to be the same.

 

[Lea101]

The start wasn’t female priests, though. But rather they decided they can interpret and change what they want. Female priests were the effect, it’s not like female religious leaders happen to cause it.

 

[Lea101]

Doesn’t motherhood compliment fatherhood? Women can be nuns, sisters, and consecrated virgins, all of which are things men cannot do

With the exception of consecrated virgins, isn’t there a male equivalent for the things you mentioned?

While complimentarity isn’t a good reason to ordain women, I don’t think there’s a role women can take on that men don’t have as well. It’s usually open to the laypeople in general.

Again, with the exception of consecrated virgins. They can take up secular jobs and basically live their lives as single women though with no official role, so I don’t think it’s relevant to OP’s question.

 

[Fauken]

You are consistently one of my favorite lady posters on this site.

Because I know my place beneath my betters who are men?

With the exception of consecrated virgins, isn’t there a male equivalent for the things you mentioned?

I don’t think I would equate nuns and sisters to brothers and monks (I assume that’s the equivalency you’re talking about). Nuns and sisters are spouses of Christ. While that aspect is more pronounced with nuns, I think, than sisters, it is nonetheless a part of their vocations. Brothers and monks, on the other hand, are not considered spouses of the Church. The only vocation for that is the priesthood.

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

Another slippery slope conspiracy theorist.

 

[Dovekin]

Why are the powers to legislate canon law and hold near monarchal control over parishes held only by priests? Even if there is a good reason why when push comes to shove the pope a [male] priest settles the issue couldn’t the church benefit from women having a bigger role in the process.

One of the underpinnings of Christology is the Messiah as Prophet, Priest and King. OT imagery is fulfilled in Christ, and continued through the exercise of those offices through ordained clergy. Because Christ is King, decision making auhority acts through the ordained. Because Christ is the High Priest, sacramental authority lies with the ordained. Because Christ is a Prophet, teaching authority rests with the ordained.

This leads to the idea that clergy must fill governance roles. Advisors can be non-clergy, but decisions are made by priests and bishops. The examples from the OT of women as prophets do not matter for some reason. The auhority of Abbesses in the Middle Ages is conveniently ignored. Teaching from women was even excluded from the magisterial category until 1969, when St Catherine and St Teresa were named Doctors of the Church.

For women to take on some governance, all this would have to be rethought without taking anything away from Jesus as the Messiah, or from clergy acting in persona Christi.

Pray to St Hulda, the prophet who helped reestablish the Law after the Jews returned from exile, for help in gaining a deeper appreciation of the divine law that guides.

Adam was not defective but the world was infinitely better when creation was crowned with the first Woman.

Adam was defective, or at least, it was not good for him to be alone. The creation of women to be with men was God’s solution for that need.

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

Sometimes it is best to say nothing.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Papal Nuncios are usually not married and therefore they are usually not a father.