Female priests push Catholic boundaries

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opus101 said:
NO! (If what you mean is “can they reject the excommunication”) And this is what I think is so sinister about them and the whole culture of dissenters who insist on “remaining” in the Church. By insisting that they are Catholics, they can lead more people astray. Why do they not let the Church define itself, and if that definition is not what they believe, well then…leave!

If they have the right to believe/act as they do, then so do Catholics who have remained faithful. Are they suggesting that we cease to exist? We are not compatible!

The whole thing is completely illogical, and almost seems like mental illness. Which makes me wonder - did they go through the battery of psychological tests that our seminarians are required to go through? (I’m just kidding.) But the results would cetainly be very telling.
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👍 👍 👍 :clapping:
 
Based on the article photo they also received a special indult to use leavened bread. 😦
 
CatholicFireman said:
Saved them from the oncoming train, eh? 😉
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I will never understand why Catholics who openly dissent from the Church continue to identify as Catholics. There is a difference between indifferent, “cultural” Catholics, and those who openly and actively challenge doctrine such as these women “priests.” The former just don’t really pay much attention or think about doctrine a lot, and a majority are probably poorly catechized, so I can at least understand why they continue to identify as Catholics. They may not fully understand what it means to be Catholic.

But those such as the women in this group, or “Catholics” for Choice, or Dignity, I mean, come on, why do you choose to identify with a group that holds beliefs directly contrary to your own? I would have had slightly more respect for these women if they had just left the Catholic Church and were ordained into the Episcopal Church, which does have female clergy. At least then they would be saying, “The Catholic Church does not ordain female clergy. I wish to be a female priest. The Episcopal Church ordains female clergy. They clearly hold beliefs closer to my own. I will be ordained into the Episcopal Church.” This would at least be a consistent position.

Instead, they say “The Catholic Church does not ordain female clergy. But I don’t like that, so I’m going to cover my ears and yell ‘lalalalalalalala’ and pretend to not hear that teaching.”

Of course, the ideal situation would be for the woman in the above scenario to put aside her own desires and conform her will to the Catholic Church. But if she refuses to do so, why would such a woman try to remain in the Catholic Church?

makes no sense. Really, it would be like me being a supporter and contributor of Planned Parenthood while saying “I’m really pro-life, I’m just going to remain in Planned Parenthood even though I don’t believe what they do. I’m going to march in pro-life marches and support pro-life legislation, but in the mean time, I’m not leaving Planned Parenthood.” No, if I was a contributor to Planned Parenthood, and I decided one day that no, I am pro-life, I do not support their goals, I would then LEAVE Planned Parenthood and join a pro-life group instead.
 
They strike me as attention getters, or else they would indeed become clergy in the Episcopal Church. That way they would have achieved their goal. But this tells me otherwise. They choose not to be obedient servants of Christ. Rather, they worship the golden idol of vanity. Does my view of it sound extreme? Not to me. We all have our struggles but these ladies are out there.
 
Reject the excommunication? Isn’t that like a guy in prison rejecting his sentence?

The concept of female ordination is impossible and a moot point. One might as well stand outside holding a large sign reading “MALE PREGNANCY NOW!”
 
Opus,
I definitely think you’re on to something here. 😉

I used to be a supporter of woman’s ordination, and even thought that I was being “called” at one point to become a “priest”.
Since becoming involved with Ignatian spirituality, my views on most topics have changed, as I have put God’s will ahead of my own.
In my very limited experience with the movement and with my experiences in my local school of theology & ministry, I have come to believe that in many cases what you say here is true.

The one difference I have seen over & over again in the men & women I have seen discerning the call to Holy Orders, is the woman are more focused on and fighting for what ***“I want”
*** and the men I know are humbly submitting to what God wants.
I know that for me, this has has been the hardest lesson of my spiritual journey.
opus101 said:
NO! (If what you mean is “can they reject the excommunication”) And this is what I think is so sinister about them and the whole culture of dissenters who insist on “remaining” in the Church. By insisting that they are Catholics, they can lead more people astray. Why do they not let the Church define itself, and if that definition is not what they believe, well then…leave!

If they have the right to believe/act as they do, then so do Catholics who have remained faithful. Are they suggesting that we cease to exist? We are not compatible!

The whole thing is completely illogical, and almost seems like mental illness. Which makes me wonder - did they go through the battery of psychological tests that our seminarians are required to go through? (I’m just kidding.) But the results would cetainly be very telling.
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Oneofthewomen said:
Opus,
I definitely think you’re on to something here. 😉

I used to be a supporter of woman’s ordination, and even thought that I was being “called” at one point to become a “priest”.
Since becoming involved with Ignatian spirituality, my views on most topics have changed, as I have put God’s will ahead of my own.
In my very limited experience with the movement and with my experiences in my local school of theology & ministry, I have come to believe that in many cases what you say here is true.

The one difference I have seen over & over again in the men & women I have seen discerning the call to Holy Orders, is the woman are more focused on and fighting for what ***“I want”
*** and the men I know are humbly submitting to what God wants.
I know that for me, this has has been the hardest lesson of my spiritual journey.
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I think this is one of the most important aspects of the whole argument. My RCIA sponsor is presently going through formation for the Permanent Deaconate. He tells me that he has to keep reminding himself that “its not about me; its not about me; its not about me” in an effort to keep focused on God’s will rather than his own.

Submitting our will to God’s, dropping our pride, and embracing humility is such a hard thing to do. It permeates this entire discussion on supposed women priests…
 
johnridgway said:
Dressed in a priestly white robe and green stole, Monique Venne lifted communion bread before an altar – defying centuries of Catholic Church law.

Despite promises of excommunication from the Vatican, she and six other women in Minnesota say they are legitimate, ordained Catholic priests, fit to celebrate the mass. They trace their statu
s through a line of ordained women bishops back to anonymous male bishops in Europe.

startribune.com/local/minneapolis/135386288.html?page=all&prepage=1&c=y#continue
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That’s stupid. It’s not physically possible. Like the pregnant man, there is deceit. The pregnant man was never a man at all, just a woman with a tuck. That’s it.
In the same way, the idea of woman-priest is impossible and deceitful, driven by vain ideology! And not driven by obedience to God, which is foremost in a calling to ordination.

Too funny! I like how they “trace their lineage”, to borrow a strictly Catholic expression, to an anonymous source. Where, in reality, an actual priest can trace his lineage, not to some random anonymous source, but to Peter and to God himself!
 
DasErlibnis said:
That’s stupid. It’s not physically possible. Like the pregnant man, there is deceit. The pregnant man was never a man at all, just a woman with a tuck. That’s it.
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Well played. I laughed out loud at that one…
 
Deo_Gratias42 said:
No, we have one of these wymynprysts in my city here in Canada. She’s been excommunicated. It’s physically impossible for a woman to be ordained a priest.

Does the article make any mention of their Ordination Tambourines?
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Its not physically impossible. Its spiritually impossible. Physically, well, she can stand, say the right prayers, wear the right vestments, etc. So physically its not impossible, that is why these people think it can happen because women are able physically. But the spiritual mark of Ordination does not have an effect on them, thats the problem. They look like a priest, act like a priest, think like a priest, but because they cannot bear the mark of a priest on their soul through Ordination, all of it is just for show.
 
opus101 said:
Do these women have degrees in Theology? If so, it would be interesting to know where they graduated from.

All of our joking aside, this is very, very sad. They’ve been led so very far astray, let’s pray for their conversion…if even one of them can be snatched from the fire, it would do a great good, and that witness would greatly edify and build up the Church.
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There are women priests in other denominations, so there’s plenty of Christian colleges they can go to for the degree. They can even go to a Catholic one. A theology degree isn’t exclusive for the clergy anyway.
 
ConstantineTG said:
There are women priests in other denominations, so there’s plenty of Christian colleges they can go to for the degree. They can even go to a Catholic one. A theology degree isn’t exclusive for the clergy anyway.
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I would state it slightly differently. There are women clergy in other Christian groups. Priest implies the ability to give sacrifice, which one cannot do without valid Holy Orders. Perhaps I am just being nitpicky, but I feel that it is an important distinction.

Also, you are quite correct in that a woman can go get a degree in theology. However, one would think they would state where exactly they studied if they have actually done what they claim. Unless they did and I missed that information somehow?

Peace,
 
A thought from another forum on the issue of declaring an anonymous Bishop to be responsible for their “ordination”.
Tertullian: Prescription against the Heretics:
But if there be any (heresies) which are bold enough to plant themselves in the midst of the apostolic age, that they may thereby seem to have been handed down by the apostles, because they existed in the time of the apostles, we can say: Let them produce the original records of their churches; let them unfold the roll of their bishops, running down in due succession from the beginning in such a manner that [that first bishop of theirs ] bishop shall be able to show for his ordainer and predecessor some one of the apostles or of apostolic men,— a man, moreover, who continued steadfast with the apostles. For this is the manner in which the apostolic churches transmit their registers: as the church of Smyrna, which records that Polycarp was placed therein by John; as also the church of Rome, which makes Clement to have been ordained in like manner by Peter. In exactly the same way the other churches likewise exhibit (their several worthies), whom, as having been appointed to their episcopal places by apostles, they regard as transmitters of the apostolic seed.

Let the heretics contrive something of the same kind. For after their blasphemy, what is there that is unlawful for them (to attempt)? But should they even effect the contrivance, they will not advance a step. For their very doctrine, after comparison with that of the apostles, will declare, by its own diversity and contrariety, that it had for its author neither an apostle nor an apostolic man; because, as the apostles would never have taught things which were self-contradictory, so the apostolic men would not have inculcated teaching different from the apostles, unless they who received their instruction from the apostles went and preached in a contrary manner.
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I think Tertullian sums it up quite nicely. 🙂
 
jwinch2 said:
I would state it slightly differently. There are women clergy in other Christian groups. Priest implies the ability to give sacrifice, which one cannot do without valid Holy Orders. Perhaps I am just being nitpicky, but I feel that it is an important distinction.

Also, you are quite correct in that a woman can go get a degree in theology. However, one would think they would state where exactly they studied if they have actually done what they claim. Unless they did and I missed that information somehow?

Peace,
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No, priests implies one who does the rituals, usually offerings or sacrifices, for a certain faith. Priest is not exclusive to the Christian faith. There have been priestesses in the past even before the time of Christ on earth, from pagan faiths.
 
ConstantineTG said:
No, priests implies one who does the rituals, usually offerings or sacrifices, for a certain faith. Priest is not exclusive to the Christian faith. There have been priestesses in the past even before the time of Christ on earth, from pagan faiths.
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I am sorry but I do not agree. We are not talking about pagans, we are talking about Christianity. In the context of Christianity, it is the most elemental and essential role of the priest.

ad2000.com.au/articles/2001/feb2001p20_145.html

Either way I don’t want to derail this thread as what we are going on about is largely irrelevant to this discussion. These women are not priests and never will be. That is all that really matters.

Peace,
 
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