Female Priests

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Mike30

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Recently a thread that had been posted here was moved and then closed. It concerned the possibility that at some point in the future women could be ordained as Priests.

It raised an interesting question and one that no one who posted on the thread raised. Everyone stated basically that because Pope John Paul II said it could never happen, even though it was not declared infallibly, it never could.

However, I have seen numerous postings on this forum, particularly from Brother JR which state that the statements made by past Popes are not binding on future Popes. That being the case, could Pope John Paul II not be reversed at some point in the future? Or do his particular pronouncements fall under a special category?

It would make sense as we have seen that statements made by previous Popes have been overturned or re-interpreted in accordance with modern sensibilities and ideas.

I have no horse in this race, I just found the entire idea interesting…
 
Mike30 said:
Recently a thread that had been posted here was moved and then closed. It concerned the possibility that at some point in the future women could be ordained as Priests.

It raised an interesting question and one that no one who posted on the thread raised. Everyone stated basically that because Pope John Paul II said it could never happen, even though it was not declared infallibly, it never could.

However, I have seen numerous postings on this forum, particularly from Brother JR which state that the statements made by past Popes are not binding on future Popes. That being the case, could Pope John Paul II not be reversed at some point in the future? Or do his particular pronouncements fall under a special category?.
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The CDF has made a statement that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis fulfills the conditions for an infallible statement. While some might debate that, there is no question that its phrasing gives it a very high degree of authority. It is either infallible or practically infallible, not because Pope John Paul II said it but because of the way it was worded.
 
My thoughts are that it has to do with tradition and the Pope was merely reinforcing that tradition. Whether or not the Pope himself is infallible is beside the point because our tradition has always been to have male priests. Am I making sense? lol :whistle:
 
This is from the CDF statemen about the teaching in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis:
This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.
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ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfrespo.htm

Here is an in-depth discussion of the principles involved: catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=2697 One needs to scroll down a bit to get to the part specifically on reserving priesthood to men.
 
Interesting. I had not heard of the particular documents referred to in the EWTN article.

So no other pronouncements or declarations made by past Popes that have been re-interpreted or overturned fell under similar circumstances?
 
Mike30 said:
So no other pronouncements or declarations made by past Popes that have been re-interpreted or overturned fell under similar circumstances?
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There has never been a statement exactly like Ordinatio Sacerdotalis in format. The Catholic Culture article I cited above deals with your question. Read the paragraphs under the sub-heading *The Male Priesthood: Infallibly Taught? *
 
Mike30 said:
Interesting. I had not heard of the particular documents referred to in the EWTN article.

So no other pronouncements or declarations made by past Popes that have been re-interpreted or overturned fell under similar circumstances?
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Popes can contradict past popes, however, when speaking authoritatively ex cathedra, the infallible statement can not be overturned by future popes. For example: The immaculate conception of the Blessed Virgin can never be overturned by future popes. The same goes for the teaching of the male-only priesthood. It cannot be overturned by future popes. 🙂
 
Don’t hold your breath.

Women can and should be ministers. But they can never be priests. Beginning with the sacrifices of Cain and Abel and continuing throughout all of Judeo-Christian salvation history, there is no instance of a woman offering a sacrifice to God on an altar.

God has always limited the pool of people who are eligible to become his priests. The Old Testament priesthood was limited to firstborn (?) sons of the descendants of Levi/Aaron. So even a devout son of the tribe of Judah could not have become a temple priest. A rabbi, certainly, but a priest no. The priesthood of the New Covenant is limited to celibate men in the Roman rites and to celibate and certain married men in the Orthodox rites. So if a married man or a woman desired to become priests, they could not. God’s ways are not our ways. The reasons for His will are often inscrutable and beyond our understanding. We must accept them rather than seek to change them or even understand them.

Those who push for women priests have a fundamental misunderstanding not only of the priesthood but also of the nature of the Church. They’re pursuing an agenda of change/reform rather than holiness. They’re examining this issue through the feminist paradigm of power. They see Priests as being the figures of power within the Church and the denial of this office to woman as a way of excluding them from power. Power is a terrible lens through which to analyze the Church. Leaders are servants. The laity is the Church. Women can exert influence and if that influence is holy and an expression of God’s will, then it will have an effect. many women have been key reformers and influences in the Church. But secular analysts see things through the lens of power and feel that if women would have a say that the dogma and policies of the Church would be changed. But the Church is not a democracy. It isn’t run by shifting consensus. That works for Protestants who vote on what to believe, but it doesn’t fit the Catholic or Orthodox paradigm. The Church is a supernatural entity, not a human one. It is the bride of Christ. Despite all the manifest failings and shortcomings of its individual members (i.e. me and you) and its “official” representatives (i.e. the clergy and hierarchy) it remains first and foremost a divine institution, not a human one. God is immutable. Holiness, not relevance is the aim of his Church.
 
dshix said:
Ministers? What kind of ministers?
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They can be Protestant ministers who do not offer a sacrifice on an altar.

Women can also minister in the Roman Catholic Church. They can lead informal prayer groups. They can teach. They can be spiritual directors. Many nuns and lay women perform roles which can be described as ministerial - but they are not priests.
 
Mike30 said:
However, I have seen numerous postings on this forum, particularly from Brother JR which state that the statements made by past Popes are not binding on future Popes. .
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I am sure if you go back you will see that such a statement only applies to disciplinary matters, not matters of faith and morals. Rome has not only spoken on this. Rome has told us to cut the conversation.
 
Mike30 said:
Recently a thread that had been posted here was moved and then closed. It concerned the possibility that at some point in the future women could be ordained as Priests.

It raised an interesting question and one that no one who posted on the thread raised. Everyone stated basically that because Pope John Paul II said it could never happen, even though it was not declared infallibly, it never could.

However, I have seen numerous postings on this forum, particularly from Brother JR which state that the statements made by past Popes are not binding on future Popes. That being the case, could Pope John Paul II not be reversed at some point in the future? Or do his particular pronouncements fall under a special category?

It would make sense as we have seen that statements made by previous Popes have been overturned or re-interpreted in accordance with modern sensibilities and ideas.

I have no horse in this race, I just found the entire idea interesting…
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I find the constant probing regarding this issue interesting. The issue is closed. The answer is no female priests.

Peace,
Ed
 
Zekariya said:
Popes can contradict past popes, however, when speaking authoritatively ex cathedra, the infallible statement can not be overturned by future popes. For example: The immaculate conception of the Blessed Virgin can never be overturned by future popes. The same goes for the teaching of the male-only priesthood. It cannot be overturned by future popes. 🙂
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According to the CDF, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis is an excercise of the infallibility of the Ordinary Magisterium. This manifestation of infallibility has different characteristics than papal infallibility, the kind that applies in the case of the Immaculate Conception. However some scholars claim that OS is a case of papal infalliblity.
 
Boy_Wonder said:
They can be Protestant ministers who do not offer a sacrifice on an altar.

Women can also minister in the Roman Catholic Church. They can lead informal prayer groups. They can teach. They can be spiritual directors. Many nuns and lay women perform roles which can be described as ministerial - but they are not priests.
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Heh, I thought it was strange that while we’re talking about Catholic dogma concerning the male priesthood you suggest that women “can and should” be ministers. Are you suggesting women should leave Catholicism because they can’t be priests? That’s what it sounded like.
 
pnewton said:
I am sure if you go back you will see that such a statement only applies to disciplinary matters, not matters of faith and morals. Rome has not only spoken on this. Rome has told us to cut the conversation.
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Exactly. Ordinatio Sacerdotalis was explicit that reserving priesthood to men is not a disciplinary matter and also is not open to debate. This is why the moderator acted so appropriately when he shut down the previous thread on this topic. People were starting to debate it. This action of the moderator was a praiseworthy example of obedience to the Magisterium.
 
dshix said:
Heh, I thought it was strange that while we’re talking about Catholic dogma concerning the male priesthood you suggest that women “can and should” be ministers. Are you suggesting women should leave Catholicism because they can’t be priests? That’s what it sounded like.
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Of course not. Look at the second paragraph. Many women are ministering in the Roman Catholic Church and have been doing this for centuries. Since apostolic times, in fact.
 
Consider this…the Church IS the Bride of Christ (many Bible citations) and the priest - who celebrates all Sacrament does so - by his ordination - as the “person of Christ.” According to all traditions, Traditions and Church documents - a priest can only be male.

Otherwise it would be a woman in relationship with a woman.

This makes sense to me. When I understood this I was completely convinced about the teaching of male only priesthood.
 
…it’ll never happen in the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
 
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