Feminism, can any good come from it?

[Dee_Dee_King]

i want to know what about the historical feminist movement was good.

did the catholic church support any aspect of the feminist movement of the 19th and 20th century? wasn’t dominated by white protestant women? has womens’ entrance into the workforce led to more animosity between men and women?

 

[MariaG]

i want to know what about the historical feminist movement was good.

In 1920, sister unite! (School House Rock )

How about the women’s right to vote

 

[CNCIBC9]

Many good things have come from “feminism”. (like suffrage)

Radical feminism, however is not a good thing.

 

[Hastrman]

How about the women’s right to vote

You mean, “how about the attempt by the Republicans and the Labour party to gerrymander by expanding the franchise?”

See, the only reason suffrage happened was that the dominant parties thought they’d do better if women had the right to vote. In other words, gerrymandering.

Stirring, ain’t it?

 

[Socio_Momma]

The Catholic Church supports New Feminism as Pope John Paul II wrote about. www.thenewfeminism.netthis site is dedicated to the New Feminism movement & includes some writing by or about Pope John Paul II’s views as part of the 4th wave of feminism to reclaim the inherent dignity of women. You may like to read about the New Feminism and its very positive relationship to being a Catholic.

IMO some expamples of good things that came about from the various waves of feminism are–>> voting, property ownership, no longer seen as legal chattel (property) but as human beings by the secular law, equal access to education (both primary & secondary) .

Also, many women were forced into the workforce by capitalism and other social factors not merely feminism. Poor American born women and immigrants (like Catholic women) had no option but to work often in horrible conditions and for horrible pay .

 

[Dee_Dee_King]

Many good things have come from “feminism”. (like suffrage)

what other good things? why is suffrage so good? did the catholic church support it?

i think the error intrinsic to feminism is that men and women must be equal in ‘power’ and not just dignity. if the feminist movement stood against pornography and abuse, which are dignity issues, i would say that feminism was good.

 

[Socio_Momma]

Some do stand strong against these issues. I don’t know of any feminism that hasn’t stood against abuse (safe houses and spousal abuse support has long been a feminist cause) but I agree that the other sexual areas (pornography, prostitution and of course “reproductive rights”) gets real hazy because some (often the really vocal & wealthy ones) think they are empowering (they aren’t ) while others work to end them as being wrong & abusive in their own right (because they are!).

 

[Sixtus]

Re: feminism, can any good come from it?

Yes, reactionary Masculinism

 

[hasikelee]

i want to know what about the historical feminist movement was good.

did the catholic church support any aspect of the feminist movement of the 19th and 20th century? wasn’t dominated by white protestant women? has womens’ entrance into the workforce led to more animosity between men and women?

www.feministsforlife.org

 

[Sixtus]

i want to know what about the historical feminist movement was good.
QUOTE]

You would be well advised to speak to either a sociologist or sociology graduate. My field is psychology, sorry

did the catholic church support any aspect of the feminist movement of the 19th and 20th century?/

Don’t know, but do know that the Church has supported a lot of marginalised groups

has womens’ entrance into the workforce led to more animosity between men and women?

I have had both male and female bosses.

From personal experience, with only one or two exceptions, in my view women bosses are much better with only one exception. They DO tend to recognise a conscientious worker and reward hard work. But here I am speaking about professional bosses. Working class experiences [like men] appear not so good

 

[blessedtoo]

did the catholic church support it?

I have to preface my response with a disclaimer that this topic makes me a tad nutty :whacky: . As a recovering radical feminist, I can say with great sadness that not only did many factions of the Church support it in the 70’s and 80’s, but still do to this day. I have just finished a book I highly recommend to anyone interested in this topic:
UnGodly Rage: the Hidden Face of Catholic Feminism, by Donna Steichen.
I think many here would be interested to learn how many of our Bishops supported such groups as Catholics for a free Choice, Women Church, and We Are Church, all feminist driven vehicles devoted to complete litugical reform (beyond inclusive language), women’s ordination, abortion, contraception, homosexual rights, etc. After reading this book, I recognize in the current Mass how many inventions are the direct result of militant feminists in our Church. On a personal note, a dear friend of mine who is an ex-nun, was showing me photos of her high-school reunion. In the photos, she pointed out two nuns who were not in habit and completely unidentifiable as religious (and were in their 60’s and 70’s). When I asked my friend why the sisters were not in habit, she replied that Vatican II had BANNED the habit for women religious . That is how effective the feminist mis-information campaign was and continues to be.

 

[lak611]

why is suffrage so good?

Women are able to vote pro-life. There is an organization called Feminists for Life. Here’s a link to their website. feministsforlife.org/

 

[Sixtus]

When I asked my friend why the sisters were not in habit, she replied that Vatican II had BANNED the habit for women religious .

It is alleged in some quarters that Agents from Communist Russia infiltrated the Church. Most not making it any higher than ‘priest’ but some getting to bishop, arch-bishop and even cardinal.

No doubt as cardinal, they would have sat in on Vat-2. Nuns abandoning their habits does rather sound like a communist plot

 

[Aleii]

what other good things?

“quality prenatal care, protection from violence within a domestic partnership, sexual harassment, street harassment, discrimination and rape, and rights to maternity leave, and equal pay” (wiki)

why is suffrage so good?

list even one reason why suffrage isn’t good.

i think the error intrinsic to feminism is that men and women must be equal in ‘power’ and not just dignity. if the feminist movement stood against pornography and abuse, which are dignity issues, i would say that feminism was good.

Feminism does stand against abuse; where did you hear that they don’t? As to the equal in power thing, it is good to have all people of both genders working towards a better world. Artificially restricting women in the areas of education and politics, for example, holds society back in countless ways.

 

[Black_Jaque]

Sixtus,

As a psychologist perhaps you could speak to the phenomina that when a largely male-dominated task begins to become co-ed, it almost flips to being lobsided in favor of being a female dominated task.

I heard this said once regarding the role of alterservers. As soon as girls were allowed, the boys seemed to vanish.

Is there something in the male psyche that attracts us to jobs where male participation is seen as “necessary”?

If this is true, how would this factor be affected by things like womens suffrage and women in combat roles?

In the days when politics was male-dominated men talked about politics in taverns and barbershops. Today politics is a taboo topic in those places. Instead sports has supplanted politics as topic of discussion.

Has the country been better served by having sports be the topic of discussion rather than something that actually affects our lives?

I’ve seen bumper stickers that said, “If men had babies, abortion would be a sacrament.” That’s because as long as men control the church abortion will be a sin. Perhaps the same logic could be applied to politics and law?

Also when a man went into a voting booth before the days of women’s suffrage, did he have his wife and family’s good intentions at heart? Do men think they are liberated from that responsibility now that their wives can speak-for-themselves?

 

[manualman]

Eureka! You’ve nailed it. All we need to do is get the Supreme Court to rule that all professional sports teams need to be half/half men/women. Then men will quit wasting their lives with endless worthless sports trivia and do something worthwhile again. Black Jacque just saved western civilization! Well, we still need the court decision…

Seriously, I think 70’s feminism did a GREAT job of identifying a real problem. They recognized that society demeaned women, treated them as second class citizens and generally wasted their potential as human beings. That was quite likely true. Unfortunately, that version of feminism proceeded to EMBRACE the sinful views of the ‘patriarchy’ and REINFORCED the idea that personally raising healthy children is demeaning (as opposed to paying KinderCare to do it) and providing a stable and safe home is worthless. WORSE, instead of denouncing the usually male error of sacrificing home life in favor of blindered careerism, greed and ambition, they pronounced these distortions to be virtues.

But I don’t have any STRONG opinions on the matter.

 

[lak611]

Also when a man went into a voting booth before the days of women’s suffrage, did he have his wife and family’s good intentions at heart? Do men think they are liberated from that responsibility now that their wives can speak-for-themselves?

What about women who do not have husbands? Not every man or woman is married. Do you think that single women should not have any voice? Who is going to stand up for them if their fathers are dead, and they don’t have husbands or brothers?

 

[JamesG]

The answer is that no good can come of it.

I’ve dated feminist women and they are the most disrespectful lot ever. They have no respect for a man and they are Insecure, non-nurturing, disheartened, confused, and overly entitled.

In fact most will reject the churches teachings on papal infallibility, holy orders, premarital sex, and sadly in some cases the sanctity of life.

They go around thinking that their power over men comes from their sexuality. It is so sad.

I’m just glad I realized this while I’m still young. As a result, I no longer date women who are feminist. I focus on more traditional women from other countries. They are attractive and show respect for you.

 

[MariaG]

The answer is that no good can come of it.

I’ve dated feminist women and they are the most disrespectful lot ever. They have no respect for a man and they are Insecure, non-nurturing, disheartened, confused, and overly entitled.

In fact most will reject the churches teachings on papal infallibility, holy orders, premarital sex, and sadly in some cases the sanctity of life.

They go around thinking that their power over men comes from their sexuality. It is so sad.

I’m just glad I realized this while I’m still young. As a result, I no longer date women who are feminist. I focus on more traditional women from other countries. They are attractive and show respect for you.

There is a difference between the feminist agenda promoted by the far left today and the historical feminist movement that produced basic human rights in a society like the right to vote.

Unless for some reason you feel women are in some way intrinsically unqualified to vote?

Thankfully, there are feminists today who can be intelligent, caring and make to most radical statements ever like insisting on raising their own children.

Don’t confuse the radical far left feminism of the 1970’s with the historical movement that gave women a voice in politics.

Unless you too think no good came from women suffrage?

 

[Della]

In very general terms, before the reformation and the industrial age, women and men worked side by side in the fields and little shops. Most men owned their own small business or were tenants under a lord. Wives and children worked alongside their husbands and fathers.

With the industrial revolution, men and women were separated, with many men going into the factories and their wives keeping the home and children. This was and still is an artificial way of life that has gradually demolished families. We can see this in the recent statistic that shows 51% of women are not married to the men they are living with.

Early feminism in America strove to keep women out of the factories so they could be at home and for laws against child labor in factories. Something that is forgotten by the majority of modern feminists who followed Sanger and her radical philosophies instead of Susan B. Anthony (who was strongly anti-abortion while Sanger vigorously promoted it).

It is up to us Christians to reclaim the home as a woman’s natural right, for those who can be at home. We have to rescue our women from the idea that the male model is the only legitimate one. The ideal is a man and woman working together, but our society has divided men from women and then told women that they must be like the men, which is a lose-lose proposition, IMHO.