Feminisms effect on women

[neat62]

That’s probably the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.

First of all…you didn’t “hear it” you read it…secondly…that’s your opinion…and what I wrote is mine…don’t like it…don’t read it!

 

[neat62]

The feminist movement should have stopped at the point when it started supporting infanticide. But it kept on rolling.

Totally agreed…and here’s a reminder…that started in 1921 with Margaret Sanger and her artifical contraception and Planned Parenthood!

 

[leftistdestroye]

Feminisms effect on women

It has made them like men, and unattractive.

 

[leftistdestroye]

Tick Dawk;

I’m pretty sure the Church tries to play the card that the Bible sees women as equal

To the woman he said, “I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.” 17 And to Adam he said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life;

 

[neat62]

Speak for yourself

Can you tell us exactly when this was? I’ll make it a bit easier…what decade or even century?

When you marry, if you ever do, you might find out why it’s important for men to be open and able to discuss their feelings. So you prefer women to behave and obedient? I hear they have a cult for that. It was just raided in Texas. The women seem the spitting image of what yuou want. I’m sure they will be happy to have you join.

Any proof of this or is this just a feeling you hve? i have no desire to be superior over anyone actually. We were created with different body parts, there is some small suggestion that our brains are wired a bit differently making us approach common issues in slightly different ways. That’s about all scientifically speaking.

Statistics belie this belief of yours. At different points in time most men and women have periods where they are not seeking long term relationships, but most all do in the end. It is a natural human desire. Men have always been a bit more inclined to non-monogamy, but statistics show that married men live longer and are happier. The same is true for women. That is a result of commitment, not the reason for it.

That’s pretty dated. I knew a few women like that when back in the 70’s and 80’s but it was pretty much gone by the 90’s. By then, most just realized that if someone needed a door opened for them, you did it,man or woman. I guess I should not like to watch football with my husband. He probably resents my intrusion. Duh.

Affirmative action programs are designed to rectify old wrongs and bring everyone to a level playing field. I assume you also are against those programs for African americans as well? Emotions have zip to do with this and I’m shocked you as a female would say such a gender biased statement. I am actually rather thinking your only claiming to be a female now.

So the women’s movement is now somehow the reason for male homosexuality? ROFL…Have any proof of that?
{QUOTE]
Women want to go out and have sex without regard to consequence only to cry when they find themselves pregnant or with an STD that some “evil” male did this to me. As if they had no choice in the matter at all. They think nothing of murdering their own through abortion and then want to be thought of as compassionate, tolerant and loving women.

You are sad now. What women are blaming me for their pregnancies? Why would a man be evil? If indeed you are a woman, your opinion of men is sadly negative.

If indeed you are a female, you certainly hate the fact that you are. I am terribly sorry for you. What a horrifying life you must have. My deepest sympathies

Nice…I love the way you personally attack…and then tell me you don’t seek superiority…LOL! Yea…I believe you…NOT!

As for when men were men and women were women…it wasn’t that long ago…in fact, even in the early '60’s we had “normal” expectations within society…but it was the obnoxious and spoiled women of the mid to late '60’s that declared that being a mother was horrific and “demeaning!”

As for being a woman…I don’t hate it at all…I LOVE IT…unlike women who desire to pretend they are not women…women who want to behave like men…yet…look for sympathy when they are treated like men!

And Affirmative Action programs are completely useless…as all it does is perpetuate MORE bias…you can’t correct a wrong by instituting another. Because of AA programs…today, as an employer…I am forced to look at your race and gender BEFORE…I even consider your skills, talents, abilities, experience or knowledge! So you believe that race and gender are MORE important than those things…typical of a liberal.

Finally, my opinion of men…is no way “sad”…as I respect them for the being MEN…I don’t expect them to pretend to be female…I don’t expect them to “think” like me…I don’t expect them to “feel” like I do…I respect them because they are different and GOD created them to be!

Sadly…it appears you are the one who is bitter and actually, haven’t learned a thing from the “feminist” movement…cause if you did…you would know that MY having a different opinion then yours is what IT WAS SUPPOSED TO SUPPORT! In other words, it was supposed to ALLOW us the CHOICE to think for OURSELVES, instead of falling in line with the rest like a “good little sheeple!”

 

[Pope_Gregory]

Outstanding post! You might be interested in the book I MEANT to link in my first post.
amazon.com/Women-Who-Make-World-Worse/dp/1595230092

that looks like an interesting book, I bought it at its used price since its only 1 cent. I notice Ann Coulters “Godless: Church of liberalism” is next to it. I hear the book has caused quite a stir.

 

[Maxply]

From what I see, the major problem with feminism is that it is one of several very large social forces that have increased the radical, lonely and selfish individualism in western culture.

In the end, we’ll just be economic units, rated at specific dollar values!

 

[blessedtoo]

Nice…I love the way you personally attack…and then tell me you don’t seek superiority…LOL! Yea…I believe you…NOT!

Those who would accuse the “ultra-uber-radical-fanatical-knuckle dragging right wingers” of being intolerant eventually show their true colors. Best to just avoid interactions which bear no fruit besides slanderous personal jabs.

 

[Naztakuan]

!"

As for being a woman…I don’t hate it at all…I LOVE IT…unlike women who desire to pretend they are not women…women who want to behave like men…yet…look for sympathy when they are treated like men!
"

I don’t even know what this means. Treated like men? Explain this. Behave like men? I’m confused as to what that means.
And how is that even possible? Effiminate men are never treated like women and yet these women you describe as “acting like men” get treated like men. You gotta be specific with this one because I have no idea what this means. I tried to fit into that rigid female standard but fail miserably everytime. It just doesn’t work.

!"
Finally, my opinion of men…is no way “sad”…as I respect them for the being MEN…I don’t expect them to pretend to be female…I don’t expect them to “think” like me…I don’t expect them to “feel” like I do…I respect them because they are different and GOD created them to be!
"

I don’t know what this is supposed to mean either. Some differences are simply institutionalised by culture and have little to do with the actual biology. If acting like a man is simply an adoption and mimicry of behaviors, then it means that the rigid gender roles that you speak of are artificial. A human who acts like a dog is still treated like a human being because the mimicry is obviously nowhere similar to the real thing. A human can never properly act like a dog if it is not a dog. If you say that women act like men and are treated like men, then this simply makes the gender roles interchangeable and ergo artificial. Most of our western ideas of femininity are artificial. What you’re implying needs to take place is some sort of blanket conformity across the board. Not only are these expectations unrealistic, they are also psychologically dammaging.

 

[blessedtoo]

I once heard a psychiatrist giving a talk and he said that whenever he has a patient who claims to be a feminist, he will bring up the subject of her father.
He said that in almost every instance in his 25+ yeas of practice she will give him one of two responses. Either she will describe her father as an overbearing tyrant, or as an “absent father” who was never involved or protective. Of course, there are exceptions, but he certainly noticed a lot of consistencies.

He was trying to make a point about how important a roll fathers have in their daughter’s lives. We need to make sure we are strong, loving, and protective men, but know where to draw the line and not become an abusive tyrant. It was some good advice.

Feminism can often be a reaction to bad fathering.

It is well documented that both Steinman and Friedan claimed to have absent or abusive fathers.

In addition, Betty went on to claim her then husband also “physically abused” her during their marriage. When her ex proved that these charges were completely false, she was forced to withdrawl her accusations.

Nice.

BTW: In Betty’s last book before she died, she wrote that she realized in later years that the movement had “gone too far”.

But I guess there are modern day feminists who are not interested in the facts about the women who started the movement they still pledge loyalty to.

 

[blessedtoo]

IMO, any Christian who aligns themself with a group, a movement, or an organization that was the primary catalyst in legalizing abortion should prayerfully consider how that fits into the definition of “Christ-like”.

We will not vote for a politician or political party that supports abortion. Aligning ourselves with the group that got the whole thing started is even more repugnant.

 

[lak611]

Here is a good feminist organization.

 

[Pope_Gregory]

Like I said, It’s silly to blame objectification and degradation on feminisim. It does not explain prostitution, trafficking, and porn in countries where feminism has not taken its toll. And to imply that this is because somehow Americans used to be morally superior is hogwash. What about abortions in places like Russia? This is obviously a country that was affected by communism not feminism. Women are willing to degrade themselves if there is money involved if they live in desperare hopeless situations. This is no different than women who swallow condoms full of cocaine.
The women who engage in this sort of behavior usually do so for the initial payout. Eventually women wiill start to rationalize their behavior by claiming they like it or that it’s liberating. But most don’t believe that. Porn stars often have some underlying emotional problem, It’s easy money that doesn’t require much of an education. Even many radical feminists are staunchly anti-porn. They believe in unrestriced sexual activity but they also believe it should not be exploited and filmed. An interesting experience in Japan is that their porn industry has thrived for a long time but it centers les around film stars and more around the hentai market(animated) as eroticism is a big part of their culture. But the disturbing thing about hentai is that a large portion of it centers around rape and violence. Some of it depicts twelve year olds as the stars. But this is tolerated because anime porn is not real and therefore its creators are not accountable like porn filmers. But it’s still porn. Usually the adult films are behind some sort of black curtain of shame in the US. In Japan it’s behind a cutesy pink curtain with an anime girl on it. You don’t realize where you’ve ended up until you see the odd “toys” on the tables.
You cannot blame feminism for pornography if porn thrives in non feminist environments. You could blame men for porn since they are the ones who make it, sell it and profit from it. but that would be to harsh right?

nazatukan. I wonder since you list yourself as Catholic. How do you get around your Catholic faith while supporting feminism? Something that the church has condemned. There is one thing against the feminist movement that they cannot get through, and that is God.

Also you bring up that women had no choice back in the 50s about marriage. Yet if you look at the stastistics, you will see that domestic abuse is at a higher rate that it was back then, and the crime rate has nearly tripled. How do you get around that? While I don’t believe you can blame feminism for all of societys ills, it is definatly something that is eroding and damaging the structure of society of today, espesially in family and moral value.

 

[Dale_M]

IMO, any Christian who aligns themself with a group, a movement, or an organization that was the primary catalyst in legalizing abortion should prayerfully consider how that fits into the definition of “Christ-like”.

Blessedtoo, isn’t there a difference between aligning oneself with a group (for example, the National Organization of Women) and aligning oneself with a set of ideas (for example, feminism), of which you yourself decide what specific ideas to accept or reject?

 

[Pope_Gregory]

I think many mpdern feminist women and girls don’t even care about what Steinem or Freidan said. And quite frankly, I don’t care if they hate men or whatever. I’m not worried about that. I’m worried about fair treatment and equal pay. My right to vote and own property. Marriage is only a prison if you feel like you can’t get out of it voluntarily. Obviously, if you don’t want to get married you shouldn’t have to. I don’t but by no means does that mean that other women shouldn’t. In fact there was this strange man giving out these manuscripts he wrote. It centered around racism and oppression of black men then he went on to explain a solution. He believed that a perfect world had not God, No marriage, no currency. Basically in his world no nuclear family should exist. This man voluntarily lived a life of poverty because he was so against the concept of wage slavery. He would rather be homeless and penniless. Of course I never actually met the man but one of my coworkers had recieved one. This was one of those wierd guys who writes crazy manifestos like the wierd guy who walks around with the anti-catholic sign on his body. People just think they’re crazy. I’ve only met one woman who actually followed the NOW model that you are referring to. She was in a relationship but she was not going to get married because to her marriage was only if you planned on having kids, up until that point cohabitation is the way to go.

BTW you keep referenicing Sex in th City like you’ve actually watched the show. You don’t mention the character who is married or the fact that the main character is a hopeless romantic that WANTS to get married. The whole story centers around these girls trying to find love but looking in all the wrong places. Only one character is a raging nympho and her escapades stop when she contracts cancer and all her hair falls out. Only then she realizes that her boyfriend will stick by her regardless of sex, she starts to be open to commitment. Sex in the City is not the L word which is actually more about just sex.I’m not saying I like show, but Sex and the city is not an accurate depiction of American life or most women. The show itself is classist depiction just like Desperate housewives is classist.
HBO is neither real nor realistic. It’s drama.

I find that interesting because most young women today are like the women on Sex and the City and desperate housewives. Desperate housewives is a good example of what the feminist movement has done to the minds of women. Whereas in the early 1900s women wouldn’t even think of acting like that or treating thier husbands the way most modern women do today. Women in the early days were much more respectful and honorable than they are today because they had a much greater mutual respect of their partners. Plus the thought of abortion would makes most women back then tremble that the thought of it. Now today women don’t think anything of it and most support it. And if women cannot even respect their own unborn children to keep them alive, how can they even begin to respect other people and their husband?

 

[Naztakuan]

nazatukan. I wonder since you list yourself as Catholic. How do you get around your Catholic faith while supporting feminism? Something that the church has condemned. There is one thing against the feminist movement that they cannot get through, and that is God.
.

Because they never say that feminism the concept is bad. They say That “radical” feminism is bad. i’m not a radical feminist. I just happen to believe that women should get fair wages and be able to have any job they want if they work hard. I believe women should have the right to vote and own property and get an equal education. Women should be able to sustain themselves financially just like men do. Women should NOT be told that the only two avenues they can pursue in life is marriage and childbearing. that women shouldn’t have careers just because they are women. I don’t believe that and neither does the church.
catholic.org/diocese/diocese_story.php?id=27477

Also you bring up that women had no choice back in the 50s about marriage. Yet if you look at the stastistics, you will see that domestic abuse is at a higher rate that it was back then, and the crime rate has nearly tripled. How do you get around that? While I don’t believe you can blame feminism for all of societys ills, it is definatly something that is eroding and damaging the structure of society of today, espesially in family and moral value.

Because it wasn’t recorded as accurately then. I think people care alot more about statistics taking now than they did then. I doubt many women called the police on their husbands. They also didn’t teach women who had been abused self defense like they do now. People are less isolationistic about things like abuse now. As I recall, there must have been alot of alcoholism back then since so many women went as far to start rampaging through bars and breaking stuff. I don’t think feminism has anything to do with abuse since domestic abuse happens even more frequently in societies where women are subservient. Feminism can really only be blamed for abortion in the United States and ONLY the United States. But the feminist concept is different from an isolated movement. Feminist ideals just state that a woman is capable of being her own capable person and her self worth is not determined by men. I believe that fervently. If I didn’t, I’d be dead.

 

[Pope_Gregory]

Because they never say that feminism the concept is bad. They say That “radical” feminism is bad. i’m not a radical feminist. I just happen to believe that women should get fair wages and be able to have any job they want if they work hard. I believe women should have the right to vote and own property and get an equal education. Women should be able to sustain themselves financially just like men do. Women should NOT be told that the only two avenues they can pursue in life is marriage and childbearing. that women shouldn’t have careers just because they are women. I don’t believe that and neither does the church.
catholic.org/diocese/diocese_story.php?id=27477

Because it wasn’t recorded as accurately then. I think people care alot more about statistics taking now than they did then. I doubt many women called the police on their husbands. They also didn’t teach women who had been abused self defense like they do now. People are less isolationistic about things like abuse now. As I recall, there must have been alot of alcoholism back then since so many women went as far to start rampaging through bars and breaking stuff. I don’t think feminism has anything to do with abuse since domestic abuse happens even more frequently in societies where women are subservient. Feminism can really only be blamed for abortion in the United States and ONLY the United States. But the feminist concept is different from an isolated movement. Feminist ideals just state that a woman is capable of being her own capable person and her self worth is not determined by men. I believe that fervently. If I didn’t, I’d be dead.

Well, it is easy to kinda cop out and say that “it wasn’t recorded well back then”, but they do have crime statstics listed back then. Abortion is a big deal. Everyone hates what happened in the Holocaust. However feminism has caused the deaths of the equivalent of nearly 12 Holocausts in comparison of the number of humans being killed. That is ALOT of blood on their shoulders if you ask me and as we can see many things can be done in the name of “equality” and “choice”.

Also as far as domestic violence. You will see that alot of young women want nothing to do with good upstanding men, but rather they go for guys who are bad and treat them like ****. This is something that alot of women chose to gravitate too. So you can’t always point the fingers when you see that the majority of young women today prefer to go out with bad guys

 

[Naztakuan]

I find that interesting because most young women today are like the women on Sex and the City and desperate housewives. Desperate housewives is a good example of what the feminist movement has done to the minds of women. Whereas in the early 1900s women wouldn’t even think of acting like that or treating thier husbands the way most modern women do today. Women in the early days were much more respectful and honorable than they are today because they have a much greater mutual respect and humbleness

You must be rich if you know a bunch of women like that. That lifestyle is reserved for those women who can afford it. And If I can recall correctly,Marie Antoinette engaged in that same opulant lifestyle. It’s a matter of class divisions. You may blame feminism but I blame consumerism. Consumerism and materialism is what makes people corrupt. When you have money, the laws of commom morality no longer apply because you can pay for it to go away. If people were actually more virtuous as you say. It only lasted for about a decade or two. Before that people did bad things and allowed bad things to happen without doing anything about it. It seems to me that people only focus on sexual sin and not on murder or oppression or abject poverty. People weren’t as good as you seem to believe. I’ll never buy the arguement that the world was a better place to live in back then. I certainly couldn’t survive then. Did you know for the longest time, women were not getting adequate medical treatment, namely because doctors insisted on treating them like miniature men instead of women with different biology?
Doctors didn’t even believe that PMS was real.
Sex in the City is like Cosmopolitan magazine. It doesn’t actually apply to real women or if it does, only a small minority. No one I know can afford to live like that.

 

[Naztakuan]

Well, it is easy to kinda cop out and say that “it wasn’t recorded well back then”, but they do have crime statstics listed back then. Abortion is a big deal. Everyone hates what happened in the Holocaust. However feminism has caused the deaths of the equivalent of nearly 12 Holocausts in comparison of the number of humans being killed. That is ALOT of blood on their shoulders if you ask me and as we can see many things can be done in the name of “equality” and “choice”.

Also as far as domestic violence. You will see that alot of young women want nothing to do with good upstanding men, but rather they go for guys who are bad and treat them like ****. This is something that alot of women chose to gravitate too

But the Holocaust didn’t happen in the United States. I find it so strange that Americans like to focus on a horrible tragedy that happened in Germany for a few years but no one NO ONE wants to talk about the 400 odd years of slavery that happened HERE. Men and women were beaten, raped,dismemberd or castrated and sometimes pregnant women were beaten while they were pregnant but they were often so undernourished that the babies often died shortly after birth. To me that’s no different from aborting a child.
Abortions are still performed in non-feminist influenced societies.
It has more to do with the fact that women having no rights, chose to have abortions because they were not married to the father, and women, without the high paying jobs that men have, cannot support a child alone. Usually the man just gives the woman whatever resources she needs to get her abortion. Sometimes if she refuses, she may even be killed. Countries that have a long standing tradition with prostitution also tend to embrace abortion as a necessary procedure. Women are still seen as sex objects no matter how “humble” they may be.
You’re making it sound like these women deserve to be raped because they don’t kautou to men. That’s the same rhetoric used on women in Iran who would dare to go outside without a veil. If it gets to a point in the US where they decide to revert back to some “Pleasantville” state, there will be some problems.

 

[blessedtoo]

But the Holocaust didn’t happen in the United States. I find it so strange that Americans like to focus on a horrible tragedy that happened in Germany for a few years but no one NO ONE wants to talk about the 400 odd years of slavery that happened HERE.

You are incorrect. There are ample discussions about the similarities between abortion and slavery. They are discussed frequently on this forum as well as in other apologetics literature. Could it be because we have solid stats about the Nazi’s organized governmental effort to exterminate an entire group of people that makes the correlation so compelling? Could it be the fact that the world grieves the number of dead at the hands of the Nazi’s yet still equivocates about abortion, which has killed nearly 10 times the number of human beings?

Abortions are still performed in non-feminist influenced societies.
It has more to do with the fact that women having no rights, chose to have abortions because they were not married to the father, and women, without the high paying jobs that men have, cannot support a child alone. Usually the man just gives the woman whatever resources she needs to get her abortion. Sometimes if she refuses, she may even be killed. Countries that have a long standing tradition with prostitution also tend to embrace abortion as a necessary procedure. Women are still seen as sex objects no matter how “humble” they may be.
You’re making it sound like these women deserve to be raped because they don’t kautou to men. That’s the same rhetoric used on women in Iran who would dare to go outside without a veil.

It’s simple. We are against ALL abortions - those forced upon women through a Communist regime, a misogynistic culture, or those that are supported by feminists who have convinced women that they have the “right” to kill their own unborn children.

All this talk about other countries and their policies on abortion is irrelevent to the topic. We are clearly opposed to ANYONE or ANY organized group that supports and encourages abortion.

This thread is about feminism.

If it gets to a point in the US where they decide to revert back to some “Pleasantville” state, there will be some problems.

You have a real gift for detouring the topic into personal “Speculation-ville”.