Feminisms effect on women

[Pope_Gregory]

There is this company that I know of that was a buisness owned only by women. They seemed to hate men and it would actually effect the working enviornment of the company as well as the abuse of other workers.

I used to work for a few companys earlier back on that had women who were feminists in some higher power positions. And again it made it miserable for some of the workers. So it brings up the question. If feminism is so good in these peoples eyes and so “liberating” why are they themselves so miserable and rude to other people? Because it seems every feminist I have met or heard of has been mean and rude to the bone to people. They seem like extremely unhappy miserable people and have a hatred for people who are religious it seems.

Now if feminism is such a wonderful movement in the eyes of these women, why are they themselves so miserable and angry towards society? On the job I know some feminists who have made it miserable for certains workers simply because they were a man. In fact in general, for myself, it seems nearly everyone I and my friends have had problems with in the workplace from companys in the past were people who were secular and not even religious, let alone Catholic. It seems their immoral ways in their life does effect other people in life who are good hard working God fearing people. And that is a sad thing.

I think its a why we need to bring God back in schools. Because this is what secular society spits out. Cold, hard, uncaring, secular people who would stab their mothers in the back if they were offered enough. This “secular” mindset creates problems later in life for people who are honest and good and unfortunatly have to deal with such people in life.

 

[Dale_M]

who were feminists in some higher power positions. And again it made it miserable for some of the workers. So it brings up the question. If feminism is so good in these peoples eyes and so “liberating” why are they themselves so miserable and rude to other people?

I wonder if you aren’t holding women to a different standard than you would hold a man. Often the same behavior that would get a man described as strong and decisive will get the woman described as a witch.

Because it seems every feminist I have met or heard of has been mean and rude to the bone to people.

Wow, that hasn’t been my experience at all. But again, I wonder if they simply aren’t conforming to your expectations of how a woman should interact with others.

I think its a why we need to bring God back in schools. Because this is what secular society spits out. Cold, hard, uncaring, secular people who would stab their mothers in the back if they were offered enough.

I agree that secularism is rampant and needs to be curbed, but religious folk can be pretty darn brutal too. For example, the founder of a Christian school in Texas who was just caught trying to extort sex from a parent who didn’t have the money to send her daughter to the school. abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/13_undercover&id=6085999

 

[mark_a]

There is this company that I know of that was a buisness owned only by women. They seemed to hate men and it would actually effect the working enviornment of the company as well as the abuse of other workers.

I used to work for a few companys earlier back on that had women who were feminists in some higher power positions. And again it made it miserable for some of the workers. So it brings up the question. If feminism is so good in these peoples eyes and so “liberating” why are they themselves so miserable and rude to other people? Because it seems every feminist I have met or heard of has been mean and rude to the bone to people. They seem like extremely unhappy miserable people and have a hatred for people who are religious it seems.

Now if feminism is such a wonderful movement in the eyes of these women, why are they themselves so miserable and angry towards society? On the job I know some feminists who have made it miserable for certains workers simply because they were a man. In fact in general, for myself, it seems nearly everyone I and my friends have had problems with in the workplace from companys in the past were people who were secular and not even religious, let alone Catholic. It seems their immoral ways in their life does effect other people in life who are good hard working God fearing people. And that is a sad thing.

I think its a why we need to bring God back in schools. Because this is what secular society spits out. Cold, hard, uncaring, secular people who would stab their mothers in the back if they were offered enough. This “secular” mindset creates problems later in life for people who are honest and good and unfortunatly have to deal with such people in life.

Its like you read my mind, man.

 

[Naztakuan]

I think they’re angry because they are in a world where they are still trying to make their voices heard and their feelings considered. Saying that women are unhappy because of feminism is like saying black people are angry because of the civil rights movement. Often you will see these two combined into to what we loveingly call “angry black woman syndrrome”. She’s angry not only because she has to work twice as hard as a man to be taken seriously as a woman but she also has to work twice as hard as a white woman AND a white man to be taken seriously. I think feminists may be angry because they aren’t complacent with traditional expectations of how they should behave. Remember, the original feminists were angry because they could not vote, could not own land, and had little to no say in child rearing. Men almost always got custody back then. Later feminists came out and were against being objectified and wanted to be treated like human beings.
Also contrary to common belief, women wanted their femininess to be taken into consideration. Many other countries where feminism has yet to full take root, is actually dammaging to women. There is no such thing as maturnity leave in these countries and often no matter how hard you work, you get passed over for a promotion. Meaning what? If you have a child but do not get promoted or you get paid considerable percentage less JUST for being a woman, what do you do when you can’t afford to take care of your newborn child? So why are these woman angry? Probably because the jobs that they have do not permit them to be themselves without being mocked by men. For the longest tome men have mocked women for conforming to what they’ve been expected to be. And when they turn around and act like men, they are still mocked. You can’t have it both ways. They were never really appreciated to begin with. Before feminism, things were awful, women just repressed their anger.I wouldn’t say after feminism because things are still being worked on. It’s an ongoing process. Perhaps, one day America will stop penalizing women for bringing life into the world because feminism is exalting and appreciation of womens’ qualities, not putting them down.

 

[edwest2]

Sadly, this “us vs. them” mentality was created. It is unnatural and unBiblical.

Betty Friedan (author of the Feminine Mystique) called the family “a comfortable concentration camp.”

Gloria Steinam of the National Organization for Women said: “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.”

All women were victims or potential victims of the enemy - men.

In the late 1970s, NOW declared war on men. It created fear, mistrust and suspicion between men and women, single and married. It helped pave the way for divorce when No-Fault Divorce completed its sweep of the country in the 1980s.

Certainly, women who were being abused deserve compassion, however, women were made to feel like eternal victims with no hope of healing, just a struggle against the enemy.

This type of “feminism” is evil. It is anti-family and anti-healing. It is not Biblical, but it continues on through secular outlets that make women feel that they are a separate species.

Worse, NOW has a no position on pornography or prostitution. Women are now acting like the “male chauvenist pigs” NOW told them to avoid.

Healing, understanding, rebuilding trust and forgiveness, are the things both men and women need now, today, in order to go forward. Marriage, an institution given by God, needs to be that lifelong commitment it’s supposed to be.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Naztakuan]

I wouldn’t say that men are the enemy but chauvanism is. Feminist are against chauvanism which is when a man exalts himself over women as if he were a superior being. If this is a male dominated society, which it still is, women are going to feel threatened. I know I do. How many women actually fear walking past a group of men on the street? I know I do. We live in a society where men are still the agressors and they want people to think that. This idea of control through fear hasn’t stopped. there are still many women who get threatened by their superiors and coworkers for sexual favors. Why else do sexual harassment laws exist. The point is, this anger isn’t unfounded or completely misplaced. It’s based on something that happened in their lives or happens regularly. There are probably the same amount of feminists now that there were in th 60s, most girls aren’t feminists. They still kowtow to what boys want or what men want even if it’s damaging to themselves.

 

[Pope_Gregory]

I think they’re angry because they are in a world where they are still trying to make their voices heard and their feelings considered. Saying that women are unhappy because of feminism is like saying black people are angry because of the civil rights movement. Often you will see these two combined into to what we loveingly call “angry black woman syndrrome”. She’s angry not only because she has to work twice as hard as a man to be taken seriously as a woman but she also has to work twice as hard as a white woman AND a white man to be taken seriously. I think feminists may be angry because they aren’t complacent with traditional expectations of how they should behave. Remember, the original feminists were angry because they could not vote, could not own land, and had little to no say in child rearing. Men almost always got custody back then. Later feminists came out and were against being objectified and wanted to be treated like human beings.
Also contrary to common belief, women wanted their femininess to be taken into consideration. Many other countries where feminism has yet to full take root, is actually dammaging to women. There is no such thing as maturnity leave in these countries and often no matter how hard you work, you get passed over for a promotion. Meaning what? If you have a child but do not get promoted or you get paid considerable percentage less JUST for being a woman, what do you do when you can’t afford to take care of your newborn child? So why are these woman angry? Probably because the jobs that they have do not permit them to be themselves without being mocked by men. For the longest tome men have mocked women for conforming to what they’ve been expected to be. And when they turn around and act like men, they are still mocked. You can’t have it both ways. They were never really appreciated to begin with. Before feminism, things were awful, women just repressed their anger.I wouldn’t say after feminism because things are still being worked on. It’s an ongoing process. Perhaps, one day America will stop penalizing women for bringing life into the world because feminism is exalting and appreciation of womens’ qualities, not putting them down.

While I respect your opinion , I have to disgaree with it. I know many old women who grew up in the early 1900s who said women were alot happier back then and had much better values and respect for others. Today nearly every feminist I have met has been rude and miserable. Women today are much more like men today, yet they seem much more miserable than ever.

It’s really saddening that this second and third wave type feminism has poisined so many womens minds today. Because today feminists are about as anti-family and ungodly as they come. And if you work with one of them, heaven save you, because they will make your life miserable in the workplace. This shows that if feminists had the power that they yearn for, they would make it miserable for everyone else who lived. I can’t help but notice how unnatural and ungodly most feminist proproganda is. Theres already the blood of 60 million unborn children on their shoulders because of how they pressured roe vs. wade in happening.

I think while they tell you they are for equal rights. Their true colors shine through their actions of how they act. There are so many women CEOs today and who have high positions in the workplace also. And the reason why women do have less income and that a good amount of them PREFER to stay home and be homemakers. True equality is where there is respect between the male and female in marriage and each person has a role. The man is the head of the women in marriage because of natural order and what was instituted by God. Of course the feminists totally misinterperate what this means.

 

[Filius99993]

I blame Margaret Sanger.

 

[Naztakuan]

While I respect your opinion , I have to disgaree with it. I know many old women who grew up in the early 1900s who said women were alot happier back then and had much better values and respect for others. Today nearly every feminist I have met has been rude and miserable. Women today are much more like men today, yet they seem much more miserable than ever.

It’s really saddening that this second and third wave type feminism has poisined so many womens minds today. Because today feminists are about as anti-family and ungodly as they come. And if you work with one of them, heaven save you, because they will make your life miserable in the workplace. This shows that if feminists had the power that they yearn for, they would make it miserable for everyone else who lived. I can’t help but notice how unnatural and ungodly most feminist proproganda is. Theres already the blood of 60 million unborn children on their shoulders because of how they pressured roe vs. wade in happening.

Again, I think that;s a class race issue. My grandmother often talked about how HORRIBLE it was for them not only because they were women but because they were black. A black woman had no rights in that society. She couldn’t vote and she often couldn’t get a proper education. If a white woman was raped, the entire country was like awww poor you. If a black woman was raped no one would care. So your family’s experience pre feminism does not apply to my family’s experience. 1920s feminism as great as it was in the long run, was considered a white woman’s issue. Often the suffragettes wouldn’t even let the black women march with them. Apparently race trumped gender in vote equality. So no, things were NOT great for women back then. they were horrid. And staying at home was a luxery afforded by white women who married to more financially secure white men. My grandmother had to work and work and work like a dog to send her children to a private catholic school that her husband refused to pay for. if she had just stayed at home to clean the house, my mother would have never gotten the education that was usually only afforded to white upper class children. Remember schools were segregated and the only segregated schools that were good were the private cathlolic ones.Often I don’t pay no mind to arguements against feminism, because they are laced with obvious disregard to the realities of classism. Those that argue against feminism are often those who came from families who are often higher in status. Black women were in the work force alot earlier than white women. It wasn’t about the feminist movement. it was about survival. And the discrimination was only compounded by their sex. An elderly white woman may agree with you due to her priveldge afforded to her at the time, but a black woman would not. In fact those “good wife” housekeeping adds are just as bad as the latest cosmogirl. It perpetrated a LIE that regradless of your race or social status that you too could live this way.

http://www.friskywife.com/wp-content/images/2006/09/good-housekeeping-55.jpg

Come on! How many people would actually buy that?

 

[SpiritMeadow]

It’s a old ruse to claim that all people (plug in your favorite group you love to hate ) are angry, unhappy and mean. Some do that here about homosexuals. They certainly do it in regard feminists. I suppose we would be better off if women could not vote, remained segregated in church, kept their mouths shut and were relegated to working at the local Five and Dime. Feminists do not hate men, most feminists are married to men. We decry the institutionalized sexism that has limited our abilty to make an equal wage for the same work, and the ability to work in the professions we wish. We believe that women bring something of value to the table when it comes to politics, the economy, morality, and all of lifes most important issues. We believe we have value beyond being someone’s wife and mother, just as men have value beyond being workers.

If we sometimes become angry it’s at having to respond to these types of posts by men we hope have finally learned a thing or two about women. When we realize that they either have not learned a thing or refuse to acknowledge it out of their own self desire to rule, we do get a tad aggravated.

If you have never met a feminist who wasn’t mean, angry and unhappy, yuou have lived a rather sheltered life. And since it is the common rhetoric of someone who uses this claim only as a device to incite anger, I doubt you really meant it. I’ve worked under a number of women throughout my working career. Some were great, others ****, pretty much the same as men.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Again, I think that;s a class race issue. My grandmother often talked about how HORRIBLE it was for them not only because they were women but because they were black. A black woman had no rights in that society. She couldn’t vote and she often couldn’t get a proper education. If a white woman was raped, the entire country was like awww poor you. If a black woman was raped no one would care. So your family’s experience pre feminism does not apply to my family’s experience. 1920s feminism as great as it was in the long run, was considered a white woman’s issue. Often the suffragettes wouldn’t even let the black women march with them. Apparently race trumped gender in vote equality. So no, things were NOT great for women back then. they were horrid. And staying at home was a luxery afforded by white women who married to more financially secure white men. My grandmother had to work and work and work like a dog to send her children to a private catholic school that her husband refused to pay for. if she had just stayed at home to clean the house, my mother would have never gotten the education that was usually only afforded to white upper class children. Remember schools were segregated and the only segregated schools that were good were the private cathlolic ones.Often I don’t pay no mind to arguements against feminism, because they are laced with obvious disregard to the realities of classism. Those that argue against feminism are often those who came from families who are often higher in status. Black women were in the work force alot earlier than white women. It wasn’t about the feminist movement. it was about survival. And the discrimination was only compounded by their sex. An elderly white woman may agree with you due to her priveldge afforded to her at the time, but a black woman would not. In fact those “good wife” housekeeping adds are just as bad as the latest cosmogirl. It perpetrated a LIE that regradless of your race or social status that you too could live this way.

http://www.friskywife.com/wp-content/images/2006/09/good-housekeeping-55.jpg

Come on! How many people would actually buy that?

Bravo, well said.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Sadly, this “us vs. them” mentality was created. It is unnatural and unBiblical.

Betty Friedan (author of the Feminine Mystique) called the family “a comfortable concentration camp.”

Gloria Steinam of the National Organization for Women said: “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.”

All women were victims or potential victims of the enemy - men.

In the late 1970s, NOW declared war on men. It created fear, mistrust and suspicion between men and women, single and married. It helped pave the way for divorce when No-Fault Divorce completed its sweep of the country in the 1980s.

Certainly, women who were being abused deserve compassion, however, women were made to feel like eternal victims with no hope of healing, just a struggle against the enemy.

This type of “feminism” is evil. It is anti-family and anti-healing. It is not Biblical, but it continues on through secular outlets that make women feel that they are a separate species.

Worse, NOW has a no position on pornography or prostitution. Women are now acting like the “male chauvenist pigs” NOW told them to avoid.

Healing, understanding, rebuilding trust and forgiveness, are the things both men and women need now, today, in order to go forward. Marriage, an institution given by God, needs to be that lifelong commitment it’s supposed to be.
Ed

Ed, trite soundbites of poster board rhetoric fails to convince anyone. Steinem said important things and you choose a silly aside that probably was made up by someone else as a statement of her claims. There is and never was a war against men. It was and is a war against an institutionalized sexism that continues to pervade much of American life. It is not the in the least unbiblical, in fact it is clearly the message of Jesus. It does not I would agree resemble the historical life picture one sees in the bible, for that was indeed patriarchal in nature. But Jesus did his best to explain that that way of living was wrong. I guess you didn’t get it.

 

[Filius99993]

Ed, trite soundbites of poster board rhetoric fails to convince anyone. Steinem said important things and you choose a silly aside that probably was made up by someone else as a statement of her claims. There is and never was a war against men. It was and is a war against an institutionalized sexism that continues to pervade much of American life. It is not the in the least unbiblical, in fact it is clearly the message of Jesus. It does not I would agree resemble the historical life picture one sees in the bible, for that was indeed patriarchal in nature. But Jesus did his best to explain that that way of living was wrong. I guess you didn’t get it.

I think that many women have a view that it is a female vs. male world, because I know quite a few who do. SpiritMeadow, you are probably looking at yourself and thinking, “I am a feminist, and I don’t hate men.” The thing is, there are so many different interpretations of “feminism”, it’s not even funny. I think what we as Catholics have a problem with certain people who call themselves feminists is their support of abortion and artificial contraception. I don’t think it’s because we support a patriarchal society, but rather because we are against immoral behavior as an outcome of feminism- but not all of it, of course.

 

[edwest2]

I wouldn’t say that men are the enemy but chauvanism is. Feminist are against chauvanism which is when a man exalts himself over women as if he were a superior being. If this is a male dominated society, which it still is, women are going to feel threatened. I know I do. How many women actually fear walking past a group of men on the street? I know I do. We live in a society where men are still the agressors and they want people to think that. This idea of control through fear hasn’t stopped. there are still many women who get threatened by their superiors and coworkers for sexual favors. Why else do sexual harassment laws exist. The point is, this anger isn’t unfounded or completely misplaced. It’s based on something that happened in their lives or happens regularly. There are probably the same amount of feminists now that there were in th 60s, most girls aren’t feminists. They still kowtow to what boys want or what men want even if it’s damaging to themselves.

Instead of perpetuating this fear for all eternity, what do you propose to solve this problem?

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Ed, trite soundbites of poster board rhetoric fails to convince anyone. Steinem said important things and you choose a silly aside that probably was made up by someone else as a statement of her claims. There is and never was a war against men. It was and is a war against an institutionalized sexism that continues to pervade much of American life. It is not the in the least unbiblical, in fact it is clearly the message of Jesus. It does not I would agree resemble the historical life picture one sees in the bible, for that was indeed patriarchal in nature. But Jesus did his best to explain that that way of living was wrong. I guess you didn’t get it.

Oh, I got it alright. Instead of solving any of the problems between men and women, NOW declared war. “Sisters! Throw off the chains of your oppresion!” Eternal victimhood is all they offered women. Fear and mistrust. Healing the wounds was out of the question.

This is wrong. This is unBiblical.

God bless,
Ed

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I think that many women have a view that it is a female vs. male world, because I know quite a few who do. SpiritMeadow, you are probably looking at yourself and thinking, “I am a feminist, and I don’t hate men.” The thing is, there are so many different interpretations of “feminism”, it’s not even funny. I think what we as Catholics have a problem with certain people who call themselves feminists is their support of abortion and artificial contraception. I don’t think it’s because we support a patriarchal society, but rather because we are against immoral behavior as an outcome of feminism- but not all of it, of course.

I accept that a valid. Perhaps we need to be more clear about what we are objecting to, and not simply put all under the label of feminism. The line you draw is acceptable since certainly there are feminists who adher to some but not all of the feminist agenda.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Oh, I got it alright. Instead of solving any of the problems between men and women, NOW declared war. “Sisters! Throw off the chains of your oppresion!” Eternal victimhood is all they offered women. Fear and mistrust. Healing the wounds was out of the question.

This is wrong. This is unBiblical.

Ed

Ed, from a long experience with you here on this forum, everything since the 20th century hit is wrong for you. There is simply nothing unbiblical about feminism. It is wrong because you don’t want anything to change in your world It’s simply too threatening to you. You’re stuck in old 60’s rhetoric and haven’t been able or willing to go beyond your initial shock that women could be so uppity. Victimhood? are you serious? It would be opposite my deluded man. If everyting was so hunky dory before feminism what pray tell were the wounds that needed healing?

You’re just in love with a past you think you remember. Or maybe so far back you just read about it and think it was grand then. It was not.

 

[Maxply]

For women who may be reading this:

(1) I’ve noticed that there are “old girl networks” and cliques, that are exceptionally exclusive; near impossible for a man to get in this loop.

(2) Women don’t network as well with people; they network well among other women. But I can recall lining up informational interviews: the older guys would make time for me, perhaps 80-90% of the time; women, never. Some, in fact, were hostile-ly suspicious and off-putting. Nice professionalism, there.

(3) One thing I EXTREMELY dislike are these young women just out of college that put on airs at the workplace. They spiffy themselves up, and then they talk down at you. . . curtly. I’m a Phi Beta Kappa and have an advanced degree, so I’m not terribly overwhelmed by the pretensions here. But there are a LOT of hard, even mean, young women. My wife says perhaps it’s the effect of birth control pills.

 

[strngrnrth]

Feminism simply means “believing in women” or “siding with women”. It can be taken too far; most ideals are sometimes taken too far. But feminism has always existed. It became more organized in the mid-19th Century when the male life expectancy was increasing and the female life expectancy wasn’t. It was dangerous to be a woman then. Almost all women worked for money, but their money was the official property of their husbands in the US. If a woman was abused and her children and she were in danger, she could try to run away, but if government agents found her, they would return her. Most weren’t concerned about voting because they were thinking of surviving. A man could sell his children into slavery. He could do as he wished to his wife, children and widowed mother. women were often forced to abort chidlren they wanted, at risk to their own lives, by husbands and fathers who were unwilling to support another child. If a white, rich woman was raped, yes, the law took it very seriously – but if a poor woman or a non-white woman was raped, she was treated as if she were joking or at fault if she tried to get justice. This applied regardless of her age and the degree of injury she sustained. Women began using their scant extra time to meet and talk about how to change things. The struggle has not been won yet.
The Industrial Revolution made feminist organizing both possible and necessary. This is so with all underdog movements. Before industrialization, only a king could harm very many people, and freedom was as far away as you could walk unless you were actually chained. However, oppression existed, and resistance was hard because transportation, communications and defense of assemblies were out of most people’s reach. The inventions of the post-Renaissance era made oppression more deadly to more people, and resistance on a wide scale possible at the same time.

 

[Naztakuan]

Feminism simply means “believing in women” or “siding with women”. It can be taken too far; most ideals are sometimes taken too far. But feminism has always existed. It became more organized in the mid-19th Century when the male life expectancy was increasing and the female life expectancy wasn’t. It was dangerous to be a woman then. Almost all women worked for money, but their money was the official property of their husbands in the US. If a woman was abused and her children and she were in danger, she could try to run away, but if government agents found her, they would return her. Most weren’t concerned about voting because they were thinking of surviving. A man could sell his children into slavery. He could do as he wished to his wife, children and widowed mother. women were often forced to abort chidlren they wanted, at risk to their own lives, by husbands and fathers who were unwilling to support another child. If a white, rich woman was raped, yes, the law took it very seriously – but if a poor woman or a non-white woman was raped, she was treated as if she were joking or at fault if she tried to get justice. This applied regardless of her age and the degree of injury she sustained. Women began using their scant extra time to meet and talk about how to change things. The struggle has not been won yet.
The Industrial Revolution made feminist organizing both possible and necessary. This is so with all underdog movements. Before industrialization, only a king could harm very many people, and freedom was as far away as you could walk unless you were actually chained. However, oppression existed, and resistance was hard because transportation, communications and defense of assemblies were out of most people’s reach. The inventions of the post-Renaissance era made oppression more deadly to more people, and resistance on a wide scale possible at the same time.

My point exactly. You have to really review AL aspects of history. race, class, economics and otherwise. Just saying it was better before feminism, is an ignorant assessment of the real nature of the times and the prevalent classism at the turn of the century.
These people obviously lived in a little box sequestered from the real travestys going on outside their exclusive communities. Remember, Slavery had just ended and Industrialism was just gaining it’s full force. Harsh discrimination and oppresion of all kinds was rampant.