Feminisms effect on women

[leftistdestroye]

Calliso;3626205]

Or a man could stay home too! I think it should be either or.

Women are impregnated with child. They bore child. They feed child. They should be, with child.

Though to be fair alot of parents donlt have the option of one of them staying home.

Sure, because the economy now revolves around two incomes, because of feminism. Why was it that when the people were the most poor, that the opposite happened?(woman stayed at home) I could be wrong, but I think that two incomes just maintain a certain level of life quality. New tv’s, name brand clothes, play station, fun, etc.

 

[Calliso]

Calliso;3626205]

Women are impregnated with child. They bore child. They feed child. They should be, with child.

Sure, because the economy now revolves around two incomes, because of feminism. Why was it that when the people were the most poor, that the opposite happened?(woman stayed at home) I could be wrong, but I think that two incomes just maintain a certain level of life quality. New tv’s, name brand clothes, play station, fun, etc.

In many cases yes people just work to maintain a certain quality of life. I was mainly talking about the people who are using those two incomes to scratch by on things like house payments and bills and what not.

Yes but what if the woman has a job that makes more money? What if the man is better with children? Being a woman or bearing children doesn;t automatically mean one is good stay at with the kids material. I will take a quote though not sure if this is the exact wording from the Show “Bones” “Just because I have boobs doesnt mean I have magical powers over infants or anything.”

 

[Tracyms1974]

Tracyms1974;3625405]

And that is exactly why a woman should stay at home. And you want the world to accomodate, you??? Come on!

You know, I haven’t been rude to anyone in this discussion, yet you are rude to me. Thanks. I HAVE to work. My husband and I are currently underneath a mountain of debt right now, and we BOTH have to work just to get by. No, I don’t expect the world to accomodate ME, I think this country should accommodate ALL PARENTS and make hours more family friendly. My husband drops off and picks up our child from day care because he has the “better” hours. And don’t say, “Well, you shouldn’t have got into all that debt in the first place.” My husband wanted this big house that we now live in. (He bit off more than he could chew.) So for a while we were living off of credit cards. It happens to A LOT of people. Just look at the news! So, no, I can’t just sit idly by while our debt eats us alive. I even tried working part time - again, now enough money. I HAVE to work full time for there to be any hope of us getting ahead.

You may now insert your foot into your mouth.

Tracy

 

[leftistdestroye]

Calliso;3626335]

In many cases yes people just work to maintain a certain quality of life. I was mainly talking about the people who are using those two incomes to scratch by on things like house payments and bills and what not.

Fine, they got to do what they got to do. I just would not want to see a lifetime of both parents working.

Yes but what if the woman has a job that makes more money? What if the man is better with children? Being a woman or bearing children doesn;t automatically mean one is good stay at with the kids material. I will take a quote though not sure if this is the exact wording from the Show “Bones” “Just because I have boobs doesnt mean I have magical powers over infants or anything.”

Yeah, well, I am concerned with setting a standard for the vast majority. A few instances here and there we as a society should live with. But we need a benchmark, with mom at home.

 

[Polaris]

I think one possible target would be a return to a single income family so that a parent can be around their family more (so that their children are not shipped off to the most convenient baby sitter or day-care).

I don’t care if the parent who stays home is the mother or the father. One parent should be home with their children.

Exactly how this target could be reached is another matter entirely.

This is my own limited observations but I think the stay at home mother or father is the worse thing you can do to kids.

My parents both had a great work ethic. My father worked seven day weeks and my mother worked and went to night school. She got her degree became a manager and worked from seven in the morning to latenight and volunteered on the weekends. Both climbed the ladder through hardwork and deligence. Now both are retired, own their house, have no debts and do not even need require a social security check because of their savings. They were and are a wonderful example to live by. We also were not babied, when I was young I do not remember an idle time, at fourteen my mother found a job for me to work at farm, when I became legal at fifteen I got my workers permit kept my job at the farm and worked at a resturant at night during the summer. My sister and brother all got jobs and one even became a manager while still at college. Work was expected along with good grades. Also we maintianed the house. If you make a mess you clean it up no “mommy” to help you. We all graduated from college with honours and my brother and I went on to graduate school with pay. Im about to defend, and my brother and sisters all have excellent paying jobs and live all over the country and we are all very happy. You get us talking about our work we can go on for hours with a smile.

Of the people I know in graduate school, science, most of us are like this and have a similiar childhood and share this drive.  We are self sufficient and do not feel a need to be parasitic on anyone.  If we get into trouble, we do not run to mother or father to help us, we help ourselevs by picking up a second job.

Now I also know two individuals that stay still live at home at age25. Guess what they both have? Thats right stay at home mothers. Yes it is a very small sample size so it means nothing but I heard a little voice say one day "Why are you surprised? You dont work for a living and survive. Lo and behold your child does not see a purpose in working. " When one of the mothers asked me to talk to them about moving on.

Also I must admit I thought sahm were an ok idea till I talked to my grandmother who was a sahm till the seventies when she got her first job because she did not need to stay at home any more.

She thinks that it is absolutely insane or just plan lazy for a woman to be one today because they do not have to work. She says a SAHM in her day did work, not an “oh no I have to drive to a store to pick up food once a week that is already prepared for me… Its sooooo hard …woe for me.” (She likes to be dramatic) but the I have to take care of my half of the farm duty. She than goes on to say when woman today have to slaughter and prepare their own chickens and pigs harvest the eggs, bake bread everyday, milk a cow, make the butter, clean clothing by hand, with water you got from outside, shear a sheep, make wool, weave, make the clothing, cook with a fire stove, gather wood, canning every summer and fall from your own garden, prepare and bottle the cider, sell the extra goods, buy the supplies you cant get your self in a tripthat takes all day…(she can go on for hours, she cant stand lazy people ) Only then will she once again consider SAHM a worthy occupation. She is traditional too, but she does believe that a man and woman are equal and that they should both work there bums off. You got to love the Irish. (She does not want me to marry a girl thats wants to stay home if I ever marry again)

 

[neat62]

You know, I haven’t been rude to anyone in this discussion, yet you are rude to me. Thanks. I HAVE to work. My husband and I are currently underneath a mountain of debt right now, and we BOTH have to work just to get by. No, I don’t expect the world to accomodate ME, I think this country should accommodate ALL PARENTS and make hours more family friendly. My husband drops off and picks up our child from day care because he has the “better” hours. And don’t say, “Well, you shouldn’t have got into all that debt in the first place.” My husband wanted this big house that we now live in. (He bit off more than he could chew.) So for a while we were living off of credit cards. It happens to A LOT of people. Just look at the news! So, no, I can’t just sit idly by while our debt eats us alive. I even tried working part time - again, now enough money. I HAVE to work full time for there to be any hope of us getting ahead.

You may now insert your foot into your mouth.

Tracy

Umm…actually, no…the business world shouldn’t have to accomodate anyone…especially when they could easily find someone else to do the work…its called a business for a reason…they are not there to provide their employees with a job or a living or healthcare insurance…or whatever else you may thing they should provide…they are in business simply **to make a profit **and when they start making all sorts of accomodations to meet all of their employees needs, they risk NOT making a profit and you know what happens then? They soon find themselves OUT of business and YOU and all those you work with are out a JOB!

As far as your debt goes…sorry to hear that…but umm…that is neither your business owners problem, nor is it the problem of the government…frankly, its called personal responsibility and accountability. Its no one else’s fault that your husband “bit off more than he could chew”…perhaps you should have a talk with him about learning some financial management rather than looking for your employer to make special work hours for you.

And you know…his comment wasn’t really rude, but certainly your last statement was…sigh…

 

[leftistdestroye]

Tracyms1974;3626441]

You know, I haven’t been rude to anyone in this discussion, yet you are rude to me. Thanks. I HAVE to work. My husband and I are currently underneath a mountain of debt right now, and we BOTH have to work just to get by. No, I don’t expect the world to accomodate ME, I think this country should accommodate ALL PARENTS and make hours more family friendly. My husband drops off and picks up our child from day care because he has the “better” hours. And don’t say, “Well, you shouldn’t have got into all that debt in the first place.” My husband wanted this big house that we now live in. (He bit off more than he could chew.) So for a while we were living off of credit cards. It happens to A LOT of people. Just look at the news! So, no, I can’t just sit idly by while our debt eats us alive. I even tried working part time - again, now enough money. I HAVE to work full time for there to be any hope of us getting ahead.

I was not rude, that is the internet.

Businesses should not have to bend over backwards to fit your personal life. They provide an income, that’s good enough. And, because of your choices, you want them to be more, “family friendly”? I think they are, you all lived beyond your means.(no offense) And yes, many people live beyond their means. That is a problem with society today. People didn’t do that in the past. They bought what they could afford, and still have children.

You may now insert your foot into your mouth.

Personal responsibillity.

 

[Tracyms1974]

Umm…actually, no…the business world shouldn’t have to accomodate anyone…especially when they could easily find someone else to do the work…its called a business for a reason…they are not there to provide their employees with a job or a living or healthcare insurance…or whatever else you may thing they should provide…they are in business simply **to make a profit **and when they start making all sorts of accomodations to meet all of their employees needs, they risk NOT making a profit and you know what happens then? They soon find themselves OUT of business and YOU and all those you work with are out a JOB!

As far as your debt goes…sorry to hear that…but umm…that is neither your business owners problem, nor is it the problem of the government…frankly, its called personal responsibility and accountability. Its no one else’s fault that your husband “bit off more than he could chew”…perhaps you should have a talk with him about learning some financial management rather than looking for your employer to make special work hours for you.

And you know…his comment wasn’t really rude, but certainly your last statement was…sigh…

You’re just as rude if not more so, than the other guy. An apology is DEMANDED of both of you.

Why do you think that the government gives tax credits to those with children? Because these are the people who are “taking one for the team” and making more workers for this country. That being said, YES, reasonable accomodations should be made for employees with children, because without them, eventually, there will be no more workers. A business cannot expect to ONLY hire employees who are single with no personal life. It’s not going to happen.

As far as personal responsibility, I am TAKING responsibility for this problem that we now have, thank you, by working and providing an income that we need right now.

I await your apology for your harsh judgement of me.

Tracy

 

[neat62]

You’re just as rude if not more so, than the other guy. An apology is DEMANDED of both of you.

Why do you think that the government gives tax credits to those with children? Because these are the people who are “taking one for the team” and making more workers for this country. That being said, YES, reasonable accomodations should be made for employees with children, because without them, eventually, there will be no more workers. A business cannot expect to ONLY hire employees who are single with no personal life. It’s not going to happen.

As far as personal responsibility, I am TAKING responsibility for this problem that we now have, thank you, by working and providing an income that we need right now.

I await your apology for your harsh judgement of me.

Tracy

Well, you’ll be waiting a long time, because I don’t feel I owe you one…I have not attacked you nor have I “judged” you…I replied to comments you made…its called a forum for a reason ya know.

Umm…again, NO…businesses do not have to make accomodations for anyone…because unless you have some very rare skill, there is always someone coming up behind you to take your place.

Businesses do not OWE you anything, as I stated above…they are there simply to make a profit…if you want to have children, then, by all means, do so, but don’t expect society to revolve around YOUR needs to care for them.

As for the tax credits…the taxes taken shouldn’t have been in the first place. And if you want to talk about making accomodations…how about giving those of us WITHOUT children a break?? I mean, why should I have to pay for YOUR children to go to school through my taxes? Why should I have to work overtime, so YOU can go get your kids from daycare? Why should I have to come in early, when you can come in after you drop your kids off at school? Etc., etc.

And where do you think businesses should draw the line?? What about individuals who are going to school to further educate themselves?? Should businesses be REQUIRED to let them leave early everyday so they can make it to class? Or allow them time during the day to study?

How about those who have pets to care for? Should businesses be REQUIRED to allow employees to bring in their pets, so they are not left at home all day? Or perhaps allow them to go home twice a day to let their pets out or take the for a walk?

How about those who have parents to care for? Like I do? Should my business offer me hours off everyday so I can go home and care for my mom? Or give those with parents in nursing homes, time everyday to go visit them?

It goes on and on…I could think of countless things that could require “accomodations” by businesses…but guess what? As soon as I start making those demands, I will find myself without a job, simply because its NOT businesses duty to support ME in MY life!

 

[leftistdestroye]

Tracyms1974;3626618]

You’re just as rude if not more so, than the other guy.

I am the guy, Neat62 is a gal.

An apology is DEMANDED of both of you.

Why do you think that the government gives tax credits to those with children?

Government is not a company.

That being said, YES, reasonable accomodations should be made for employees with children, because without them, eventually, there will be no more workers.

What? And pay, insurance, vacations, sick day’s, holiday’s, aren’t enough?

A business cannot expect to ONLY hire employees who are single with no personal life. It’s not going to happen.

Look, average people, feminists, Keeping up with the Jones, people are the ones who are skidding off of the path, not the companies. We used to be able to have one person work while the other raised the family, and they made it work. The ones making or demanding the changes, should not force others to adapt to them.

As far as personal responsibility, I am TAKING responsibility for this problem that we now have, thank you, by working and providing an income that we need right now.

You are. Yes. But what we mean, is that, and no offense, it is your bed, you must lay in it. The company should not be made to provide day care.(or whatever) It also means, that it was you(your husband) who went beyond their means.(again, no offense) As you even said, he bit off more than he could chew. No offense, but was that responsible or not? THAT, is what we meant. We are not trying to offend, attack, or beat on you. We call it as we see it.

 

[Tracyms1974]

Tracyms1974;3626618]

Yes you are. Yes. But what we mean, is that, and no offense, it is your bed, you must lay in it. The company should not be made to provide day care.(or whatever) It also means, that it was you(your husband) who went beyond their means.(again, no offense) As you even said, he bit off more than he could chew. No offense, but was that responsible or not? THAT, is what we meant. We are not trying to offend, attack, or beat on you. We call it as we see it.

Well, fine, I feel better now. That’s about all the apology I need. All I’m trying to say is that I cannot at this time fit into the traditional mold of “go to work dad, stay at home mom.” It is impossible. The benefits you mentioned before - vacation, PTO, are all good. I also said that I wished that companies would consider the work hours. I didn’t necessarily say that they should be obligated to change them. I could change jobs and get better hours as far as that goes. I never said companies should pay for day care, although that would be a dream. I never thought that an off-the-cuff statement such as “It’d be nice if they’d consider…” could lead to this.

Tracy

 

[Carolinagirl411]

She than goes on to say when woman today have to slaughter and prepare their own chickens and pigs harvest the eggs, bake bread everyday, milk a cow, make the butter, clean clothing by hand, with water you got from outside, shear a sheep, make wool, weave, make the clothing, cook with a fire stove, gather wood, canning every summer and fall from your own garden, prepare and bottle the cider, sell the extra goods, buy the supplies you cant get your self in a tripthat takes all day…(she can go on for hours, she cant stand lazy people ) Only then will she once again consider SAHM a worthy occupation.

Now THAT’S a woman!! lol Good ol days! we as a society have gotten so lazy compared to the people that did everything themselves. We have it so easy yet we complain the most. People back then would get up at the crack of dawn, and do a million things before breakfast and not think anything of it. It was life and they were happy.

 

[leftistdestroye]

Tracyms1974;3626826]

I never thought that an off-the-cuff statement such as “It’d be nice if they’d consider…” could lead to this.

Well, Neat62 and myself are politically active. We see sooo many who would like to see evil companies do and pay for everything. We see it all the time. We see sooo many people who want the government to run their lives for them. So, sometimes we see a word, line, or sentance, and it is often an indicator of a socialist argument coming. Plus, we love to see people say: Nope, it’s my mess, it’s my problem. LOL We do!

 

[leftistdestroye]

Carolinagirl411;3626851]

Now THAT’S a woman!! lol Good ol days! we as a society have gotten so lazy compared to the people that did everything themselves. We have it so easy yet we complain the most. People back then would get up at the crack of dawn, and do a million things before breakfast and not think anything of it. It was life and they were happy.

WOW! We are in agreement! There is much to be said for manual labor.

 

[Tracyms1974]

How about those who have pets to care for? Should businesses be REQUIRED to allow employees to bring in their pets, so they are not left at home all day? Or perhaps allow them to go home twice a day to let their pets out or take the for a walk?

Pets are not people, don’t be ridiculous.

How about those who have parents to care for? Like I do? Should my business offer me hours off everyday so I can go home and care for my mom? Or give those with parents in nursing homes, time everyday to go visit them?

Maybe not time to go see them every day, but if there was an emergency, or your adult sitter didn’t show, or your mom was seriously sick, then yes, they should let you stay home a day or two and take care of her. When my child is sick, she can’t go to day care.

It goes on and on…I could think of countless things that could require “accomodations” by businesses…but guess what? As soon as I start making those demands, I will find myself without a job, simply because its NOT businesses duty to support ME in MY life!

You’re human aren’t you? You’ve got other stuff besides the job. Any GOOD employer would understand this. As long as you don’t abuse the privilege, which it DOES NOT sound like you would, it should be all good. I think businesses should support their employees (reasonably, of course) if they want to keep them around.

Tracy

 

[Carolinagirl411]

Umm…again, NO…businesses do not have to make accomodations for anyone…because unless you have some very rare skill, there is always someone coming up behind you to take your place.

I’m not sure how far of an accommodation you are talking about here…but there are ethical guidelines that all businesses have to follow and there is a law that says that all businesses have to have what is a reasonable accommodation rule. That is if the accommodation is reasonable within the company they have to make it or be subject to law suits and fines. For example

If there is a huge company hiring for positions that requires some heavy lifting a woman cannot be discredited b/c she is a woman. A reasonable accommodation would be to have a small forklift that both men and women could use equally and there would be no problem with a woman having that job

Now however, if there was a small company that required heavy lifting and they would go bankrupt if they purchased a lifting apparatus, a woman could legally be denied the job…and also very small men who can’t lift heavy things. Some women are strong though but you get the gist.

So if this company had the resources to provide a day care then they should…if they do not and can prove it, then they are not legally required to do so. The law says however, if they are able to accommodate the person and the person possesses all other qualifications, they are required to accommodate.

Just the way it is…

 

[Camron]

This is my own limited observations but I think the stay at home mother or father is the worse thing you can do to kids.

My parents both had a great work ethic. My father worked seven day weeks and my mother worked and went to night school. She got her degree became a manager and worked from seven in the morning to latenight and volunteered on the weekends. Both climbed the ladder through hardwork and deligence. Now both are retired, own their house, have no debts and do not even need require a social security check because of their savings. They were and are a wonderful example to live by. We also were not babied, when I was young I do not remember an idle time, at fourteen my mother found a job for me to work at farm, when I became legal at fifteen I got my workers permit kept my job at the farm and worked at a resturant at night during the summer. My sister and brother all got jobs and one even became a manager while still at college. Work was expected along with good grades. Also we maintianed the house. If you make a mess you clean it up no “mommy” to help you. We all graduated from college with honours and my brother and I went on to graduate school with pay. Im about to defend, and my brother and sisters all have excellent paying jobs and live all over the country and we are all very happy. You get us talking about our work we can go on for hours with a smile.

Of the people I know in graduate school, science, most of us are like this and have a similiar childhood and share this drive.  We are self sufficient and do not feel a need to be parasitic on anyone.  If we get into trouble, we do not run to mother or father to help us, we help ourselevs by picking up a second job.

Now I also know two individuals that stay still live at home at age25. Guess what they both have? Thats right stay at home mothers. Yes it is a very small sample size so it means nothing but I heard a little voice say one day "Why are you surprised? You dont work for a living and survive. Lo and behold your child does not see a purpose in working. " When one of the mothers asked me to talk to them about moving on.

Also I must admit I thought sahm were an ok idea till I talked to my grandmother who was a sahm till the seventies when she got her first job because she did not need to stay at home any more.

She thinks that it is absolutely insane or just plan lazy for a woman to be one today because they do not have to work. She says a SAHM in her day did work, not an “oh no I have to drive to a store to pick up food once a week that is already prepared for me… Its sooooo hard …woe for me.” (She likes to be dramatic) but the I have to take care of my half of the farm duty. She than goes on to say when woman today have to slaughter and prepare their own chickens and pigs harvest the eggs, bake bread everyday, milk a cow, make the butter, clean clothing by hand, with water you got from outside, shear a sheep, make wool, weave, make the clothing, cook with a fire stove, gather wood, canning every summer and fall from your own garden, prepare and bottle the cider, sell the extra goods, buy the supplies you cant get your self in a tripthat takes all day…(she can go on for hours, she cant stand lazy people ) Only then will she once again consider SAHM a worthy occupation. She is traditional too, but she does believe that a man and woman are equal and that they should both work there bums off. You got to love the Irish. (She does not want me to marry a girl thats wants to stay home if I ever marry again)

What was that all about again???

Are you actually saying that a parent staying at home is a bad thing?

 

[neat62]

I’m not sure how far of an accommodation you are talking about here…but there are ethical guidelines that all businesses have to follow and there is a law that says that all businesses have to have what is a reasonable accommodation rule. That is if the accommodation is reasonable within the company they have to make it or be subject to law suits and fines. For example

If there is a huge company hiring for positions that requires some heavy lifting a woman cannot be discredited b/c she is a woman. A reasonable accommodation would be to have a small forklift that both men and women could use equally and there would be no problem with a woman having that job

Now however, if there was a small company that required heavy lifting and they would go bankrupt if they purchased a lifting apparatus, a woman could legally be denied the job…and also very small men who can’t lift heavy things. Some women are strong though but you get the gist.

So if this company had the resources to provide a day care then they should…if they do not and can prove it, then they are not legally required to do so. The law says however, if they are able to accommodate the person and the person possesses all other qualifications, they are required to accommodate.

Just the way it is…

And in California, we are an “at will employer” which means that yoru employer can let you go at anytime for no reason at all.

My point is…that you can’t expect that a business is going to take a loss in revenue so you can “live” your life as you would like…again, businesses are not there to provide anyone, other than their customers, anything other then what is absolutely required by law and since all states have their own labor laws, it will vary from state to state.

Ya’ll have to remember…as I stated previously, there is always someone willing to take your job if you don’t want/need it…and if you think that your employer owes you “loyalty” I would suggest that you haven’t been in the workplace long enough to realize there is no such thing.

Finally…businesses have so many demands on them today, its just ridiculous to think that ANYONE would actually want to open a new business for any reason. Between the government taking about 43% of small businesses profits in taxes, the social security tax they have to match for each employee, the benefits they are expected to provide, workers comp, health and dental insurance, life insurance, 401k’s, retirement, paid time off, vacation, sick days, etc…its a wonder ANY business can actually function!

Oh yea…and I know all about it…cause I ran a small business for over 6 years…I know all too well how much it costs to employ someone!

 

[leftistdestroye]

Tracyms1974;3626886

You’re human aren’t you? You’ve got other stuff besides the job. Any GOOD employer would understand this. As long as you don’t abuse the privilege, which it DOES NOT sound like you would, it should be all good. I think businesses should support their employees (reasonably, of course) if they want to keep them around.

I get NONE of the perks that were listed. Nor do I expect it. I think that will all the perks that are considered to be a “right” today, that they are being well supported.

 

[leftistdestroye]

Carolinagirl411;3626898]

If there is a huge company hiring for positions that requires some heavy lifting a woman cannot be discredited b/c she is a woman. A reasonable accommodation would be to have a small forklift that both men and women could use equally and there would be no problem with a woman having that job

That is absolute BS in my opinion. You can’t do the job, then go elsewhere. Absolute nonsense.

Now however, if there was a small company that required heavy lifting and they would go bankrupt if they purchased a lifting apparatus, a woman could legally be denied the job…and also very small men who can’t lift heavy things. Some women are strong though but you get the gist.

Sounds like socialism to me. I don’t like it one bit.

So if this company had the resources to provide a day care then they should…if they do not and can prove it, then they are not legally required to do so. The law says however, if they are able to accommodate the person and the person possesses all other qualifications, they are required to accommodate.

And that is just bad law. No doubt, a Democrat wrote that BS legislation.