Ferberising?

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Deltadeliquent

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I have a friend who has a three year old daughter that will not sleep through the night.
Never has.
At three, it’s becoming a terrible problem.
I had a very easy time with my children in that department, so I really don’t have any advice for her, except to do anything she can think of to get her out of the habit of waking up and getting up.
I had a friend in my day who had the same problem with her son and used the Ferber method. It worked. He was a lot younger though.
Does any one have any advice? Is Ferberising only for younger children?

It’s very important as my friend is on her own, and is starting a professional course that will entail a lot of study. Without proper sleep, and time alone to do the work, she’s unlikely to get through the course.

This course could lift her and her daughter out of poverty and the vicious circle of welfare. It’s Important. I also think it’s important to establish who’s in charge now before the the daughter hits her teens.

Any help out there would be very much appreciated!
 
I have read the Ferber book and it can be used for 3 year olds. At that age though they can get out of bed, so he recommends locking them in the bedroom or gating the room (right up to the ceiling for kids who are climbers). I personally wouldn’t recommend it for a 3 year old because they can really get too frightened at that age. I think it would be too traumatic, but I understand everyone’s situation and child is different.

Personally I would recommend she just try having the child in bed with her. Or maybe on a mattress on her floor in the same room. This would probably reducing waking a bit, and also ease the burden if there was waking (she could probably sooth the child with her voice quite a bit without having to fully wake). Anyways that’s what I would do if I was a single parent in her situation.

Your friend has my sympathy, my daughter is 2 and a half and still wakes quite frequently.
 
I agree with Gliggle.

I wouldn’t use Ferber on a 3 year old. It probably could be done but I know when my 3 year old is crying at night…it’s usually because she is scared and I wouldn’t want to frighten her anymore.
However, it seems like this child just wants attention. It might not hurt to let her cry it out.

I’ve used Ferber on both my children and it’s worked well…better on one then the other. We used it on my oldest and she was a frequent night waker up until around 2.5 years old.
Cry-it-out worked with my oldest, somewhat. We’d check on her once and then ignored her for the rest of the night.
It was a hard 6 months having a newborn and a 2 year old who couldn’t sleep through the night.
If one wasn’t up…it was the other. Plus, my oldest was a good screamer and that was awful.

What worked for us was doing cry-it-out on my second child (that was like magic…within one or two nights she stopped the frequent waking and slept through the night) and then moving the two of them into the same room.
Suddenly they were both sleeping through the night…every single night.

Since there is no siblings and it’s just the two of them…it might work to move into the same bedroom and at least put a mattress on the floor.
 
I would just encourage the child to cosleep, either bedsharing for all or part of the night (in either the child or mum 'a room) or on a separate sleep surface in mum’s room. A strong component of sleeping through the night is neurological maturity. Why punish a child for something out of his control?

Lest your friend feel like a freak, you can tell her that my DS3.5 has never slept through the night yet, though he does manage a 5 or 6 hour stretch before waking and needing to be snuggled to sleep. His pediatrician sees no problem with this and, more importantly, neither do my husband or I. 🙂
 
Why isn’t she sleeping through the night?

Is she scared? Or is this a case of “oh, I’ve waken up, so now I’m going to play?”

If the former, a nightlight and lovey coupled with some sort of gradual distancing may be in order–i.e., mom sits next to her until she falls asleep, but with no interaction/communication, for a few nights, then moves slowly across the room over a period of a week or so.

If the latter, then the only problem with Ferberizing is that she’s probably not in a bed where she can be contained. In that case, I’d suggest a few rough nights for the sake of a long-term good. Every time she gets out of bed, go in there, don’t interact beyond, “It’s time for bed,” pick her up, and put her back in bed. Wash, rinse, repeat. She’ll eventually get bored and realize she may as well go back to sleep.

Leaving aside anything else, both of them need their sleep–her to grow, and her mom to be able to provide for them and be healthy.

The thing about cosleeping is that this mom can’t be lying in bed in the dark for the 12 hours or so that her daughter needs to sleep. She has to study, and probably just needs some alone time too, especially as a single mom. (Who doesn’t?!)
 
Encourage your friend to have her evaluated for any health issues that might not allow her to sleep.

Usually by three, they are so tired from all the stuff they do all day, they sleep pretty well. Hunger isn’t a factor, like smaller babies.
 
Where does the 3 year old sleep? We always had an extra toddler bed in our room so little ones can come in when they are feeling insecure at night time. Even if it was every night-that was fine…

But they had to sleep and rest quietly. If noisy, then no more toddler bed and we stuck to that. It took one night to learn we meant business.

We never had an issue with them eventually sleeping in their own room, as they knew they were always welcome to sleep in ours too.
 
I think she has her own room, not sure.
The child does have some important people going in and out of her life, dad, grandparents, aunts are all sometimes there, sometimes not due to distance and family fights. My friend is aware of and trying very hard to keep things stable and secure for her daughter. But when grandma refuses to visit there’s only so much she can do.
Dad is in Cyprus and not stable, into drugs, and isn’t really a father in any sense of the term other than biological.
She gets to talk on the phone with her important people, but not so much see them anymore.
I think she is anxious and that is why she is up.

I’m going to suggest relaxation CDs for her. They make them for children.
I thought of this because I have had to start praying the rosary during the day, as I fall asleep if I do it at night like I used to. I’ve become conditioned to relax so much it puts me to sleep!
So maybe if daughter and mother had a regular thing that is similar (they are not religious)

I thought that conditioning might happen for the daughter too with the cd. And then mom could get her to bed at a reasonable time, like 8 instead of 10 like now. She could have time for herself and for school. Then she could become a teacher and lift her and her daughter out of poverty as well as being a fantastic role model…both are very intelligent people. Moms just had some very bad breaks lately.
 
Deltadeliquent said:
I thought that conditioning might happen for the daughter too with the cd. And then mom could get her to bed at a reasonable time, like 8 instead of 10 like now. She could have time for herself and for school. Then she could become a teacher and lift her and her daughter out of poverty as well as being a fantastic role model…both are very intelligent people. Moms just had some very bad breaks lately.
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Yikes…10 pm?

That is way too late for a 3 year old…especially if they are still playing around…she is over stimulated and will have issues falling asleep and staying asleep.

Kids need a lot more sleep then adults do…something like 10-12 hours a night.

Does she have a bedtime routine with her?
As much stability as she can provide is good…it’s not an ideal situation…but any kind of stability helps.
 
alphawoman said:
I would just encourage the child to cosleep, either bedsharing for all or part of the night (in either the child or mum 'a room) or on a separate sleep surface in mum’s room. A strong component of sleeping through the night is neurological maturity. Why punish a child for something out of his control?

Lest your friend feel like a freak, you can tell her that my DS3.5 has never slept through the night yet, though he does manage a 5 or 6 hour stretch before waking and needing to be snuggled to sleep. His pediatrician sees no problem with this and, more importantly, neither do my husband or I. 🙂
Click to expand...
I can’t say this more succinctly. 👍
 
Ubi Caritas, just responding to this part of your post:
Ubi Caritas:
The thing about cosleeping is that this mom can’t be lying in bed in the dark for the 12 hours or so that her daughter needs to sleep. She has to study, and probably just needs some alone time too, especially as a single mom. (Who doesn’t?!)
Click to expand...
I don’t know if you’ve ever coslept with a 3-year-old, or any child, but this doesn’t resemble my experience with cosleeping. I nurse or snuggle my son down to sleep on his double bed, then spend the evening with my husband until my son first wakes a few hours later, at which time I rejoin DS. Cosleeping with a 3 year old, in particular, can be quite flexible. It might look like a child settling in her own room to start the night, then joining mum in the big bed after the first waking. It might look like mum sleeping in one bed and the child in another in the same room. It could involve what I do, or something completely different.

Incidentally, I completed the second half of a graduate degree while cosleeping with DS, so it can be done.
 
Kelfa28 said:
Yikes…10 pm?

That is way too late for a 3 year old…especially if they are still playing around…she is over stimulated and will have issues falling asleep and staying asleep.

Kids need a lot more sleep then adults do…something like 10-12 hours a night.

Does she have a bedtime routine with her?
As much stability as she can provide is good…it’s not an ideal situation…but any kind of stability helps.
Click to expand...
Every family has its own rhythm. We opted for a later schedule with a late wake-up time, and it works well for us. The starting time for sleep doesn’t offer any information about the duration of contiguous night sleep stretches, nor does it tell us about the child’s naps. At 3, children typically need 11-14 hours of sleep per 24 hours.
 
alphawoman said:
Every family has its own rhythm. We opted for a later schedule with a late wake-up time, and it works well for us. The starting time for sleep doesn’t offer any information about the duration of contiguous night sleep stretches, nor does it tell us about the child’s naps. At 3, children typically need 11-14 hours of sleep per 24 hours.
Click to expand...
I’m just thinking in terms of a single mom…who is most likely working with a child in daycare.
Plus…with a mom starting school…that means either day work hours and night school or reversed.

A lot of daycares only offer full day schedules and that means a fairly early wake up time…even if you got to the daycare at 8 am or 9 am…that means a 6 am wake up or 7 am wake up.
 
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