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TheLittleLady
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“In general” means just that. An average is an average, there will be people on the extreme of each end.
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alice24
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5 years tamoxifen ar the general treatment, so, for years is not that far away.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
To encourage another to sin is a serious sin in itself.
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Cruciferi
Guest
Your opinion VS the Church.
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Cruciferi
Guest
In situations like this, someone skilled in Catholic Bioethics should render a decision. The Church isn’t changing its position because it’s inconvenient in certain instances.
If they’re both dedicated to keeping their marriage within Church guidelines they’ll make it work. It’ll take research and commitment; however, I refuse to believe that the contraceptives are the only answer.
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hoping4more
Guest
Thank you all for the encouragement and discussion. Pretty much what I am wrestling with. This is what is so spiritually tormenting, I feel like God always gives us the option not to sin. I don’t see how celibacy for 5 almost 6 years is an option, at least one God would have us endure while living in the same house, capable, etc.
As for consulting the priest…our parish is a local university that is pretty liberal, in about every way. When we went for pre-cana the priest talked about how he was trying to change the minds of the other priest at their ‘conference’ on birth control(in favor of it), used the phrase G-- d—. Yikes, we just jumped through his hoops, luckily we did go to a thing called engaged encounter which was much better. Anyways, I am pretty hesitate to ask the priest there for serious advice, just let them do their job(Sacraments, homily).
There is a Poor Claire abbey near us, somewhat, and my wife is really into prayer right now, so I have mentioned taking her there for the cancer, but also hoping this might come up during a discussion and with everything else she might be a little more open minded.
In any case I know what an orthodox priest would say, and as I said she would not accept it. “Let’s go to a priest even though we know what they will say and I just want someone to support my opinion.”
There is a possibility she could return to normal cycles and still get pregnant after this at 38.
I have also thought of the NFP during super safe times, but with how the chemo and tamaxifen react with fertility cycles, I am not sure there is any time we can be really safe. Maybe in a year from now when we are sure how her body reacts to the tamaxifen we can gauge it a little better. It is also a lot less dangerous if she were to get pregnant then. Possibly other treatments( I am still not sure about those or if the doctor would recommend it) that do not have the estrogen limiting effect.
As for consulting the priest…our parish is a local university that is pretty liberal, in about every way. When we went for pre-cana the priest talked about how he was trying to change the minds of the other priest at their ‘conference’ on birth control(in favor of it), used the phrase G-- d—. Yikes, we just jumped through his hoops, luckily we did go to a thing called engaged encounter which was much better. Anyways, I am pretty hesitate to ask the priest there for serious advice, just let them do their job(Sacraments, homily).
There is a Poor Claire abbey near us, somewhat, and my wife is really into prayer right now, so I have mentioned taking her there for the cancer, but also hoping this might come up during a discussion and with everything else she might be a little more open minded.
In any case I know what an orthodox priest would say, and as I said she would not accept it. “Let’s go to a priest even though we know what they will say and I just want someone to support my opinion.”
There is a possibility she could return to normal cycles and still get pregnant after this at 38.
I have also thought of the NFP during super safe times, but with how the chemo and tamaxifen react with fertility cycles, I am not sure there is any time we can be really safe. Maybe in a year from now when we are sure how her body reacts to the tamaxifen we can gauge it a little better. It is also a lot less dangerous if she were to get pregnant then. Possibly other treatments( I am still not sure about those or if the doctor would recommend it) that do not have the estrogen limiting effect.
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hoping4more
Guest
request sent! Not sure if it will be anything different, but I’ll try.
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alice24
Guest
Getting pregnant on tamoxifen after one year desnt make it better - it´s more than a low risk the entire time.
Also, if the tumor is hormonal active, this is a usual treatment (and even if not. sis had a non hormonal active cancer and tamoxifen was still given to be more secure to not risk a second cancer after 5 years), so please don´t risk her health because it´s hard (and I believe it´s that hard and I am really sorry).
I would see a second doctor´s meaning on the nfp thing. Someone who is trained and well educated in relation to cancer therapy, your wife is not alone with this.
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Cruciferi
Guest
Good luck! We’re praying for you and this dilemma 
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Take it one day at a time. To try today to look at 5 years of anything is daunting. All you have to do is make it through today without sin.
Be sure that you make your wife feel secure and loved, dance in the living room when she does not feel like going out. Read books to her when she is too tired to read (or not, I love being read to!). Little things, let her know she is cherished.
St Agatha, pray for Hoping4Wife.
Be sure that you make your wife feel secure and loved, dance in the living room when she does not feel like going out. Read books to her when she is too tired to read (or not, I love being read to!). Little things, let her know she is cherished.
St Agatha, pray for Hoping4Wife.
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hoping4more
Guest
Well, last night she brought up me getting a vasectomy. I shut it down but still know she will bring it up again, with more insistence. ugh.
Looking around at the internet I found this article,
The jest is just dont initiate sex if your spouse is insistent or has done something permanent. This is what I was thinking about doing for the time being anyways, so maybe God is slowly giving me guidance. Does this sound orthodox? It references “Vademecum for Confessors.”, no idea about that document.
Looking around at the internet I found this article,
The jest is just dont initiate sex if your spouse is insistent or has done something permanent. This is what I was thinking about doing for the time being anyways, so maybe God is slowly giving me guidance. Does this sound orthodox? It references “Vademecum for Confessors.”, no idea about that document.
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Cruciferi
Guest
Definitely don’t get a Vasectomy. It’s unfair for either spouse to insist on permanent sterilization! I had a coworker who underwent Tubal ligation three separate times. Each time though she suffered life threatening Ectopic Tubal Pregnancy. Suffice it to say that somethings are better left alone.
In the case of that article, the wife could insist that they follow Natural Family Planning anyways so that they’re not totally benefiting from the sin of the husband. Of course this is assuming that they cannot undo the vasectomy.
In the case of that article, the wife could insist that they follow Natural Family Planning anyways so that they’re not totally benefiting from the sin of the husband. Of course this is assuming that they cannot undo the vasectomy.
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TheLittleLady
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I do not think that article was written in jest, they are attempting to explain some of the pastoral aspects of this teaching. It is a serious article.
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hoping4more
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lol, sorry, I meant 'jist" as in the summation of its meaning.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
You meant “gist”.
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hoping4more
Guest
yep, just searched that
GIST!
GIST!
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hoping4more
Guest
So a little update.
Contacted the National ethics program who put me in contact with a OB-GYN, who put me in contact with the head of the Marquette program.
https://nfp.marquette.edu/about.php
He gave me some good information. Looks like we are going to use a lot of expensive LH montitoring equipment. There is another progesterone test to do also. The only reservation I have and I know she will have, is she tried the LH monitoring when we were trying to get preganant, though she was BF our 2YO. So no idea what kept her from ovulating (BF is only supposed to suppress ovulation for 6 months nor do we know why she got a false positive for the LH test).
On the actual cancer front we have received several bits of good news. She had a low oncotype score meaning it is unlikely to return (#=14) and all her genes came back good (negative result). And best of all her doctor said she only needed two chemo treatments, so we should hear from the surgeon’s office soon about operating sometime next week. I went with her yesterday for last appointment with the oncologist before the surgery. She had previously said to me she wanted tubal ligation during her surgery to avoid going under twice. She never brought it up during the meeting, and I sure didn’t!
We had talked about it before and I just said I was unsure what we should do(I mean my mind is basically made up but I want her to come to the same conclusion) and she needed to pray about it. So for now nothing permanent at least.
Contacted the National ethics program who put me in contact with a OB-GYN, who put me in contact with the head of the Marquette program.
https://nfp.marquette.edu/about.php
He gave me some good information. Looks like we are going to use a lot of expensive LH montitoring equipment. There is another progesterone test to do also. The only reservation I have and I know she will have, is she tried the LH monitoring when we were trying to get preganant, though she was BF our 2YO. So no idea what kept her from ovulating (BF is only supposed to suppress ovulation for 6 months nor do we know why she got a false positive for the LH test).
On the actual cancer front we have received several bits of good news. She had a low oncotype score meaning it is unlikely to return (#=14) and all her genes came back good (negative result). And best of all her doctor said she only needed two chemo treatments, so we should hear from the surgeon’s office soon about operating sometime next week. I went with her yesterday for last appointment with the oncologist before the surgery. She had previously said to me she wanted tubal ligation during her surgery to avoid going under twice. She never brought it up during the meeting, and I sure didn’t!
We had talked about it before and I just said I was unsure what we should do(I mean my mind is basically made up but I want her to come to the same conclusion) and she needed to pray about it. So for now nothing permanent at least.
Realistically…you don’t HAVE to sin. It IS actually possible to abstain. Just because it’s hard doesn’t mean it’s impossible.
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heidi_storage
Guest
For anyone who believes in the authority of the Church to teach that contraception is a sin, “being realistic” IS encouraging sin.
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hoping4more
Guest
actually it is not as risky as we thought, but still trying to avoid pregnancy
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